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  • Apollo wrote: View Post
    I feel if the MLE were to exist going forward Sam would at best be a MLE kind of player. Without it you're going to see him take an even more drastic pay cut.
    The MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.

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    • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
      The MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.
      He'll take a $ hit because of his attitude.

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      • He'll take an 8 million dollar paycut because of his attitude? You know how hard it is to find a decent center, let alone a decent center who doesn't sit out half a season due to injury? It's not because Bargnani is awesome that people were wondering whether he might be an all-star.

        8-9m for 2-3 years for a player like Dalembert is good value - particularly if you're able to grab a high lotto pick in the process.
        Last edited by jeff_hostetler; Wed Apr 20, 2011, 12:20 PM.

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        • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
          The MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.
          He's 29, he now has a well documented a poor attitude and I don't feel he's due for another large pay day. Also, he hasn't exactly lit the league on fire these last three seasons. He's played solid but teams are paying guys at that age based on what they bring(and not just numbers). Pay days due to "potential" are in his rear view mirror now. $6M/yr is unreasonable under the current CBA? What about if there's a hard cap?

          jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
          8-9m for 2-3 years for a player like Dalembert is good value - particularly if you're able to grab a high lotto pick in the process.
          How can you even make that claim given we don't know the cap number or the type of cap? Are you suggesting he's worth that solely under the current system that's about to expire or is he worth it no matter what?

          Note: Darko got $4.5/yr. last summer. Darko is not half the player that Sam is. Amir is only making MLE range money and I think Sam is not better than Amir at this point.

          One more thing. No one asked the right question yet about this. Who? Who pays that? Why do they pay that? Meaning who else is offering almost up to that amount to drive his price up? I know if there's an MLE that you're going to have a bunch of capped teams offer it but who are the teams with cap space that drive the price up three more million per year?
          Last edited by Apollo; Wed Apr 20, 2011, 01:54 PM. Reason: a few more thoughts

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          • there's no reason daly won't be able to fetch himself something in the range of what brendan haywood signed for last season.

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            • Apollo wrote: View Post
              Pay days due to "potential" are in his rear view mirror now. $6M/yr is unreasonable under the current CBA? What about if there's a hard cap?
              This isn't a payment due to potential. This is a payment due to proven talent: defensive anchor C who can rebound and block shots, who doesn't get injured and if given starters minutes will average a double-double. A 29 year old C who does not rely on athleticism still has plenty of years of basketball left. 6m isn't unreasonable, I just think he could probably get more.


              Apollo wrote: View Post
              How can you even make that claim given we don't know the cap number or the type of cap? Are you suggesting he's worth that solely under the current system that's about to expire or is he worth it no matter what?

              Why do they pay that? Meaning who else is offering almost up to that amount to drive his price up? I know if there's an MLE that you're going to have a bunch of capped teams offer it but who are the teams with cap space that drive the price up three more million per year?
              Why do they pay that? The idea of paying 8.5-9m was based on a S&T for Bargnani, who makes that much. It was to match salary for the trade, and was just an idea. I obviously have no idea what the new cap will look like, so am just going off of current salaries. To acquiesce, there's no reason the salary couldn't decline from season to season, for example, 8.5m, 8m, 7m. Something like that.

              Centers demand a higher price. It's just the way it is. Dalembert has proven to be dependable. He doesn't get starter's minutes, but puts up starter's numbers. I'm not defending the guy's attitude (indeed, I've never met him, so I really have no idea), but in the same position, even I'd be like, "yo man, why don't I get more minutes?"

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              • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                This isn't a payment due to potential. This is a payment due to proven talent: defensive anchor C who can rebound and block shots, who doesn't get injured and if given starters minutes will average a double-double. A 29 year old C who does not rely on athleticism still has plenty of years of basketball left. 6m isn't unreasonable, I just think he could probably get more.

                Why do they pay that? The idea of paying 8.5-9m was based on a S&T for Bargnani, who makes that much. It was to match salary for the trade, and was just an idea. I obviously have no idea what the new cap will look like, so am just going off of current salaries. To acquiesce, there's no reason the salary couldn't decline from season to season, for example, 8.5m, 8m, 7m. Something like that.

                Centers demand a higher price. It's just the way it is. Dalembert has proven to be dependable. He doesn't get starter's minutes, but puts up starter's numbers. I'm not defending the guy's attitude (indeed, I've never met him, so I really have no idea), but in the same position, even I'd be like, "yo man, why don't I get more minutes?"
                $6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players.
                Let's say on the off chance that Dalembert will be acquired and his attitude checks out/drastically improves over reports (this is probably a pipe dream but sticking with the delusion) then we could potentially look at (after trading Bargnani to SAC for Dal and JThompson) the team of:

                PG: Bayless, Calderon
                SG: Derozan, Barbosa
                SF: JJohnson, Kleiza
                PF: ED, Amir
                C: SDalembert, J Thompson
                Bench: Alabi at this point.
                Salary: $46M with this group. That is a very good number both from a cap standpoint and ability to chase free agents. Add in the pick and chase maybe 2-3 free agents or further trades (Barbosa, Calderon/Bayless). If the pick is Kyrie/Kemba, then chase Wilson Chandler/Thaddeus Young for a good SF giving us a solid trio there. If the pick is DWilliams then look for a solid 2 guard like Aaron Afflalo and/or Matt's man Daequan Cook. That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally. Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.

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                • Maleko wrote: View Post
                  $6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players....

                  That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally....

                  Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
                  Man...you guys are talking as if Dalembert is an egomaniacal psycopath. Granted, like I said, I don't know the guy, but yeesh.

                  As far as Jason Thompson goes...I don't know about that guy. He puts up good numbers as a PF...but I'm looking at his own defensive numbers as a center, and I don't know. Again, granted this is only looking at the stats, cause I can't say I've ever really paid any attention to him watching games, but his Opp. PER is 19.3 (verging on terrible), and allows his man to shoot a FG% of .577. He's also not really any kind of shot blocker and fouls a lot. Not exactly what I would call a defensive-powerhouse.

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                  • Maleko wrote: View Post
                    $6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players.
                    Let's say on the off chance that Dalembert will be acquired and his attitude checks out/drastically improves over reports (this is probably a pipe dream but sticking with the delusion) then we could potentially look at (after trading Bargnani to SAC for Dal and JThompson) the team of:

                    PG: Bayless, Calderon
                    SG: Derozan, Barbosa
                    SF: JJohnson, Kleiza
                    PF: ED, Amir
                    C: SDalembert, J Thompson
                    Bench: Alabi at this point.
                    Salary: $46M with this group. That is a very good number both from a cap standpoint and ability to chase free agents. Add in the pick and chase maybe 2-3 free agents or further trades (Barbosa, Calderon/Bayless). If the pick is Kyrie/Kemba, then chase Wilson Chandler/Thaddeus Young for a good SF giving us a solid trio there. If the pick is DWilliams then look for a solid 2 guard like Aaron Afflalo and/or Matt's man Daequan Cook. That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally. Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
                    Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.

                    Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.

                    I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.

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                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.
                      Yeah. That's the idea.

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                      • I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?

                        What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post
                          I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?

                          What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.
                          Lopez is actually a pretty good defensive center, but he's almost as bad a rebounder as Bargnani is, and he scores about the same. Lopez, though, is a more efficient scorer, so I don't know how it would help New Jersey in any way. And, while I think Lopez would be an upgrade, I simply can't get over that rebounding.
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                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.

                            Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.

                            I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
                            In thinking about it, no need to sign and trade since SAC is below the cap so those who want Dalembert can pursue him outright without watering down the return for Bargnani. Trading Bargs and also has the Raps considerably below the cap to sign guys.

                            planetmars wrote: View Post
                            I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?

                            What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.
                            The advantage of Lopez is he is a healthy player as noted yesterday on hype that he has not missed a game since he was drafted. A rarity for a big man. I am not sure the Nets do this though, unless they truly think they can steal DHoward after next year, but I would expect they would try to use Lopez in a trade for him instead.

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                            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.

                              Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.

                              I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
                              Sac has publicly declared that this year's pick can be had, not so sure they will look to dump next year's.

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                              • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                                Man...you guys are talking as if Dalembert is an egomaniacal psycopath. Granted, like I said, I don't know the guy, but yeesh.

                                As far as Jason Thompson goes...I don't know about that guy. He puts up good numbers as a PF...but I'm looking at his own defensive numbers as a center, and I don't know. Again, granted this is only looking at the stats, cause I can't say I've ever really paid any attention to him watching games, but his Opp. PER is 19.3 (verging on terrible), and allows his man to shoot a FG% of .577. He's also not really any kind of shot blocker and fouls a lot. Not exactly what I would call a defensive-powerhouse.
                                In the case of JThompson it is confusing to look at his stats at C (only 6% of the measured time), since when he plays with Cousins or Dalembert on the court he is measured as the PF based on their 5-man sets, which means he is the C when he is on the floor with Darnell Jackson. Hardly a powerhouse pairing.

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