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Thread: Available legitimate Center for Toronto

  1. #201
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    An injury prone C is dangerous. It can cripple a team. There are certainly those who would be onside with your proposal, I am simply not one of them. And I would say 65 games is optimistic considering his last handful of years (average of less than 49games) and aging body.
    Camby and Montross come to mind as good Raptors examples of what sort of damage high priced injury prone centers can do.

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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Why would you want the Raptors to get Dalembert? What's your reason? You need to expand it a bit.
    well he's a pretty good rebounder from his stats. Idk about his defense i heard it was pretty good and he is just what we're looking for, a young Vet in the paint who can rebound, protect the rim and block some shots. He would fit in pretty good with this team

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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    well he's a pretty good rebounder from his stats. Idk about his defense i heard it was pretty good and he is just what we're looking for, a young Vet in the paint who can rebound, protect the rim and block some shots. He would fit in pretty good with this team
    His fit would be bad as he has reportedly serious attitude and chemistry problems plus motivation issues. He could quickly hijack the tone of this team.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    His fit would be bad as he has reportedly serious attitude and chemistry problems plus motivation issues. He could quickly hijack the tone of this team.
    really? i didn't know i don't pay attention to the kings much.

  5. #205
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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    really? i didn't know i don't pay attention to the kings much.
    Also why he was sent home from the Canadian national team.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Also why he was sent home from the Canadian national team.
    And he whined in PHI.

  7. #207
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Yeah, it would seem like a classic case of a strong sense of entitlement. The guy obviously has a super ego and when his PT is reduced gears begin to grind.

  8. #208
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Yeah, it would seem like a classic case of a strong sense of entitlement. The guy obviously has a super ego and when his PT is reduced gears begin to grind.
    And when his offensive touches are reduced - I think he puts himself on par with Duncan in the post, lol.

  9. #209
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    Dalembert is to me your prototypical average center: pretty good at rebounding and blocking shots, average on offense (PER 14.8), average on defense (opp. PER 14.7). Prototype average center. Nothing to get excited about, but definitely a good player to have.

    Sign-and-trade Dalembert (8.5-9m) and the King's pick for Bargnani? Works for me. Dalembert will average a double-double given 32 minutes or so of playing time. 1-2 blocks per game. No foul trouble. No injury risk. Raps get a second lotto pick, which they can use on a prospect C, who can develop while Sammy D's contract runs its course. They get their present and future C in one fell swoop. Kings? They pair Bargnani with Cousins. Perfect match. 'Nuff said. Win-win.

  10. #210
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I feel if the MLE were to exist going forward Sam would at best be a MLE kind of player. Without it you're going to see him take an even more drastic pay cut.

  11. #211
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I feel if the MLE were to exist going forward Sam would at best be a MLE kind of player. Without it you're going to see him take an even more drastic pay cut.
    The MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.

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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    The MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.
    He'll take a $ hit because of his attitude.

  13. #213
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    He'll take an 8 million dollar paycut because of his attitude? You know how hard it is to find a decent center, let alone a decent center who doesn't sit out half a season due to injury? It's not because Bargnani is awesome that people were wondering whether he might be an all-star.

    8-9m for 2-3 years for a player like Dalembert is good value - particularly if you're able to grab a high lotto pick in the process.
    Last edited by jeff_hostetler; Wed Apr 20th, 2011 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #214
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    The MLE for Dalembert? That's crazy dude. What's the cause of him playing for so little? Per 36 minutes he averages 12 points, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks. He doesn't foul and he's only missed 2 games since 2005/2006. That's better than decent.
    He's 29, he now has a well documented a poor attitude and I don't feel he's due for another large pay day. Also, he hasn't exactly lit the league on fire these last three seasons. He's played solid but teams are paying guys at that age based on what they bring(and not just numbers). Pay days due to "potential" are in his rear view mirror now. $6M/yr is unreasonable under the current CBA? What about if there's a hard cap?

    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    8-9m for 2-3 years for a player like Dalembert is good value - particularly if you're able to grab a high lotto pick in the process.
    How can you even make that claim given we don't know the cap number or the type of cap? Are you suggesting he's worth that solely under the current system that's about to expire or is he worth it no matter what?

    Note: Darko got $4.5/yr. last summer. Darko is not half the player that Sam is. Amir is only making MLE range money and I think Sam is not better than Amir at this point.

    One more thing. No one asked the right question yet about this. Who? Who pays that? Why do they pay that? Meaning who else is offering almost up to that amount to drive his price up? I know if there's an MLE that you're going to have a bunch of capped teams offer it but who are the teams with cap space that drive the price up three more million per year?
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Apr 20th, 2011 at 01:54 PM. Reason: a few more thoughts

  15. #215
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    there's no reason daly won't be able to fetch himself something in the range of what brendan haywood signed for last season.

  16. #216
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Pay days due to "potential" are in his rear view mirror now. $6M/yr is unreasonable under the current CBA? What about if there's a hard cap?
    This isn't a payment due to potential. This is a payment due to proven talent: defensive anchor C who can rebound and block shots, who doesn't get injured and if given starters minutes will average a double-double. A 29 year old C who does not rely on athleticism still has plenty of years of basketball left. 6m isn't unreasonable, I just think he could probably get more.


    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    How can you even make that claim given we don't know the cap number or the type of cap? Are you suggesting he's worth that solely under the current system that's about to expire or is he worth it no matter what?

    Why do they pay that? Meaning who else is offering almost up to that amount to drive his price up? I know if there's an MLE that you're going to have a bunch of capped teams offer it but who are the teams with cap space that drive the price up three more million per year?
    Why do they pay that? The idea of paying 8.5-9m was based on a S&T for Bargnani, who makes that much. It was to match salary for the trade, and was just an idea. I obviously have no idea what the new cap will look like, so am just going off of current salaries. To acquiesce, there's no reason the salary couldn't decline from season to season, for example, 8.5m, 8m, 7m. Something like that.

    Centers demand a higher price. It's just the way it is. Dalembert has proven to be dependable. He doesn't get starter's minutes, but puts up starter's numbers. I'm not defending the guy's attitude (indeed, I've never met him, so I really have no idea), but in the same position, even I'd be like, "yo man, why don't I get more minutes?"

  17. #217
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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    This isn't a payment due to potential. This is a payment due to proven talent: defensive anchor C who can rebound and block shots, who doesn't get injured and if given starters minutes will average a double-double. A 29 year old C who does not rely on athleticism still has plenty of years of basketball left. 6m isn't unreasonable, I just think he could probably get more.

    Why do they pay that? The idea of paying 8.5-9m was based on a S&T for Bargnani, who makes that much. It was to match salary for the trade, and was just an idea. I obviously have no idea what the new cap will look like, so am just going off of current salaries. To acquiesce, there's no reason the salary couldn't decline from season to season, for example, 8.5m, 8m, 7m. Something like that.

    Centers demand a higher price. It's just the way it is. Dalembert has proven to be dependable. He doesn't get starter's minutes, but puts up starter's numbers. I'm not defending the guy's attitude (indeed, I've never met him, so I really have no idea), but in the same position, even I'd be like, "yo man, why don't I get more minutes?"
    $6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players.
    Let's say on the off chance that Dalembert will be acquired and his attitude checks out/drastically improves over reports (this is probably a pipe dream but sticking with the delusion) then we could potentially look at (after trading Bargnani to SAC for Dal and JThompson) the team of:

    PG: Bayless, Calderon
    SG: Derozan, Barbosa
    SF: JJohnson, Kleiza
    PF: ED, Amir
    C: SDalembert, J Thompson
    Bench: Alabi at this point.
    Salary: $46M with this group. That is a very good number both from a cap standpoint and ability to chase free agents. Add in the pick and chase maybe 2-3 free agents or further trades (Barbosa, Calderon/Bayless). If the pick is Kyrie/Kemba, then chase Wilson Chandler/Thaddeus Young for a good SF giving us a solid trio there. If the pick is DWilliams then look for a solid 2 guard like Aaron Afflalo and/or Matt's man Daequan Cook. That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally. Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.

  18. #218
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    $6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players....

    That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally....

    Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
    Man...you guys are talking as if Dalembert is an egomaniacal psycopath. Granted, like I said, I don't know the guy, but yeesh.

    As far as Jason Thompson goes...I don't know about that guy. He puts up good numbers as a PF...but I'm looking at his own defensive numbers as a center, and I don't know. Again, granted this is only looking at the stats, cause I can't say I've ever really paid any attention to him watching games, but his Opp. PER is 19.3 (verging on terrible), and allows his man to shoot a FG% of .577. He's also not really any kind of shot blocker and fouls a lot. Not exactly what I would call a defensive-powerhouse.

  19. #219
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    $6M would be ok, and if you were just looking to match salaries, Jason Thompson's contract would fit the bill to a $6 +$3M to match Bargs. We would then have a C and a backup C, both defensive minded and strong. I am just worried bigtime what his attitude would do with Bayless specifically, and the locker-room cohesion that was spoken about after this season. Would almost need an interview and psych eval like for draft players.
    Let's say on the off chance that Dalembert will be acquired and his attitude checks out/drastically improves over reports (this is probably a pipe dream but sticking with the delusion) then we could potentially look at (after trading Bargnani to SAC for Dal and JThompson) the team of:

    PG: Bayless, Calderon
    SG: Derozan, Barbosa
    SF: JJohnson, Kleiza
    PF: ED, Amir
    C: SDalembert, J Thompson
    Bench: Alabi at this point.
    Salary: $46M with this group. That is a very good number both from a cap standpoint and ability to chase free agents. Add in the pick and chase maybe 2-3 free agents or further trades (Barbosa, Calderon/Bayless). If the pick is Kyrie/Kemba, then chase Wilson Chandler/Thaddeus Young for a good SF giving us a solid trio there. If the pick is DWilliams then look for a solid 2 guard like Aaron Afflalo and/or Matt's man Daequan Cook. That would be a solid team if Sammy D can hold it together mentally. Add a possible trade of Barbosa's expiring for more 'assets' and potential next year at a Myck Kabongo (PG) or many SF (Gilchrist, Macadoo, Harrison Barnes etc.) this team could look like it has a large upside.
    Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.

    Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.

    I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.

  20. #220
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.
    Yeah. That's the idea.

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