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Thread: Available legitimate Center for Toronto

  1. #221
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?

    What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.

  2. #222
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?

    What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.
    Lopez is actually a pretty good defensive center, but he's almost as bad a rebounder as Bargnani is, and he scores about the same. Lopez, though, is a more efficient scorer, so I don't know how it would help New Jersey in any way. And, while I think Lopez would be an upgrade, I simply can't get over that rebounding.
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  3. #223
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.

    Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.

    I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
    In thinking about it, no need to sign and trade since SAC is below the cap so those who want Dalembert can pursue him outright without watering down the return for Bargnani. Trading Bargs and also has the Raps considerably below the cap to sign guys.

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I asked this in the Trade Bargnani Idea thread already, but thought to pose it here as well.. most ideas on this thread are to acquire a center via free agency, but what if we landed one via trade?

    What if we tried traded Bargs to NJ for Lopez (using Outlaw to make the trade work)? Lopez is not what you would consider a defensive minded center, but can get you an 18/8 consistently. NJ was third last in offense last year, and Bargs could help them in that department. Lopez has had a really bad year, and I think most of that was due to the whole Carmelo saga, but I think a change in scenery could do him wonders. He is still very young and could again be a future all-star.
    The advantage of Lopez is he is a healthy player as noted yesterday on hype that he has not missed a game since he was drafted. A rarity for a big man. I am not sure the Nets do this though, unless they truly think they can steal DHoward after next year, but I would expect they would try to use Lopez in a trade for him instead.

  4. #224
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Do you mean have SAC sign and trade Dalembert? That is the only way they can trade him, he is an UFA.

    Thompson, Garcia, 2011 2nd round pick, 2012 1st round pick for Bargnani would be nice.

    I like Daequan Cook but as a lowly paid third string SG. I don't think he has had a fair shake in the last couple of years. He is young and skilled enough to consider low risk, high reward in my opinion.
    Sac has publicly declared that this year's pick can be had, not so sure they will look to dump next year's.

  5. #225
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    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    Man...you guys are talking as if Dalembert is an egomaniacal psycopath. Granted, like I said, I don't know the guy, but yeesh.

    As far as Jason Thompson goes...I don't know about that guy. He puts up good numbers as a PF...but I'm looking at his own defensive numbers as a center, and I don't know. Again, granted this is only looking at the stats, cause I can't say I've ever really paid any attention to him watching games, but his Opp. PER is 19.3 (verging on terrible), and allows his man to shoot a FG% of .577. He's also not really any kind of shot blocker and fouls a lot. Not exactly what I would call a defensive-powerhouse.
    In the case of JThompson it is confusing to look at his stats at C (only 6% of the measured time), since when he plays with Cousins or Dalembert on the court he is measured as the PF based on their 5-man sets, which means he is the C when he is on the floor with Darnell Jackson. Hardly a powerhouse pairing.

  6. #226
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    In the case of JThompson it is confusing to look at his stats at C (only 6% of the measured time), since when he plays with Cousins or Dalembert on the court he is measured as the PF based on their 5-man sets, which means he is the C when he is on the floor with Darnell Jackson. Hardly a powerhouse pairing.
    Either way serviceable as a backup C.

  7. #227
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Lopez is actually a pretty good defensive center, but he's almost as bad a rebounder as Bargnani is, and he scores about the same. Lopez, though, is a more efficient scorer, so I don't know how it would help New Jersey in any way. And, while I think Lopez would be an upgrade, I simply can't get over that rebounding.
    In his first two years in the league, Lopez averaged 8.1 and 8.6 boards per game. This past year was as bad as Bargs, but unlike Bargs, he has proven that he can grab a fair number of rebounds. Also Brooks has never missed a game. That's pretty good for a big.

    Why would NJ do it? Well the new NJ owner is European and probably wants to market his team overseas. Bargs could help him do that. Lopez is more efficient, but Bargs does average more ppg. With D. Williams as his PG, he may even get more. I think Lopez is a far better player than Bargs, but if NJ throws in Outlaws bad contract, it sweetens the pot even more for NJ.

  8. #228
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think BC's press conference today pretty much showed that, with or without Bargnani, a legit C is on the agenda this summer.

    That got me thinking about opponent PER. No advanced statistic can give a true indication of defensive (or offensive) ability but it can at least help paint a picture and, when using same stat for everyone, can compare apples to apples.

    Let's look at Bargnani's OPP PER versus other C's throughout the league (those who may be attainable are in bold):

    Player/OPP PER (lower the better & all stats from 82games.com)

    Bargnani 21.3

    McGee 17.2
    Jefferson 18.0 (speculation)
    Duncan 13.9
    Thompson 15.6 (speculation)
    Camby 14.6
    Aldridge 15.6
    Speights 20.7
    Gortat 15.3
    Howard 9.9
    Perkins 17.8 (OKC)
    Ibaka 17.3
    Turiaf 18.6
    Okafor 14.3
    Lopez 16.5
    Bogut 12.9
    Gasol 14.6
    Bynum 12.9
    Jordan 17.4
    Kaman 15.2
    Hibbert 18.3
    Hayes 19.1
    Thabeet 53.8 (HOU)
    Thabeet 20.1 (MEM)
    Biendris 21.9
    Wallce 17.4
    Nene 18.3
    Chandler 18.9
    Varejo 13.1 (speculation)
    Noah 18.6
    Perkins 18.3 (BOS)
    Shaq 16.3
    Horford 16.3


    .
    Interesting to add, since it is in recent discussion, that Dalembert is a very respectable 14.7 (on par with Okafor, Camby and Gasol) which would be in the top 10 (8th best) of this list. Still not sure I endorse Sammy D, but I was surprised. And he would be easier to get, and likely cheaper, than a Marc Gasol.
    Last edited by Maleko; Thu Apr 21st, 2011 at 04:04 PM.

  9. #229
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    In his first two years in the league, Lopez averaged 8.1 and 8.6 boards per game. This past year was as bad as Bargs, but unlike Bargs, he has proven that he can grab a fair number of rebounds. Also Brooks has never missed a game. That's pretty good for a big.

    Why would NJ do it? Well the new NJ owner is European and probably wants to market his team overseas. Bargs could help him do that. Lopez is more efficient, but Bargs does average more ppg. With D. Williams as his PG, he may even get more. I think Lopez is a far better player than Bargs, but if NJ throws in Outlaws bad contract, it sweetens the pot even more for NJ.
    I'd certainly rather take Lopez over Bargnani. Let's not confuse that. I just don't know what happened to Lopez this year in the rebounding department. He was never a great rebounder, but he was, at least, adequate.

    And Lopez average just 1 less ppg than Bargnani. It's hard to say Bargnani is a better scorer.

    I think the ONLY reason New Jersey would do it would be because Bargnani is Italian, because Lopez is a better player in just about every respect. If they'd go for it, I'd do it in a second.
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  10. #230
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    So does everyone still think signing Gasol would be a mistake?
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    So does everyone still think signing Gasol would be a mistake?
    Don't know anyone said it was a mistake, of course it is late at night, my wife is pregnant and my memory is shot. I for one thought it was unlikely Memphis would let him go, especially since they committed to ZRandolph at signing that they would bring him back. After these playoffs, I would say very unlikely they let him get away.

  12. #232
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Overpaying him to get him, I mean.
    @jerboat

  13. #233
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Overpaying him to get him, I mean.
    Are the Raptors going to have enough cap room to offer Gasol enough that Memphis wouldn't match?
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Are the Raptors going to have enough cap room to offer Gasol enough that Memphis wouldn't match?
    No one will know that until the next CBA. Under current rules they would have enough to offer the maximum contract for Gasol. If MEM is willing to pay him max money, then there is not much TOR can do as they can match and go over the salary cap due to Bird's rights.

    Another issue to keep in mind as Raptors fans discuss sign him or offer him this:
    If the Raps offer Gasol (or any other RFA such as Jordan or Oden) a contract, their cap space is tied up in that player for 7 days. So if the Raps gamble and offer Gasol a big deal, that cap money is tied up for 7 days as MEM decides to match or not. If MEM (or whoever) does not match, no big deal as they got the guy they wanted. However if MEM does match then you have the issue that now Jordan, Oden, Chandler, or whoever else has been signed and you got diddly squat.

    Something to keep in mind before all us armchair GM's chime in with what should be done.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No one will know that until the next CBA. Under current rules they would have enough to offer the maximum contract for Gasol. If MEM is willing to pay him max money, then there is not much TOR can do as they can match and go over the salary cap due to Bird's rights.

    Another issue to keep in mind as Raptors fans discuss sign him or offer him this:
    If the Raps offer Gasol (or any other RFA such as Jordan or Oden) a contract, their cap space is tied up in that player for 7 days. So if the Raps gamble and offer Gasol a big deal, that cap money is tied up for 7 days as MEM decides to match or not. If MEM (or whoever) does not match, no big deal as they got the guy they wanted. However if MEM does match then you have the issue that now Jordan, Oden, Chandler, or whoever else has been signed and you got diddly squat.

    Something to keep in mind before all us armchair GM's chime in with what should be done.
    A very very good point and one I have been thinking about related more to Wilson Chandler, Afflalo, and TYoung.

  16. #236
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    With Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph and Mike Conley Memphis will have about 37 mil tied up in salaries alone, put in everyone else and they are at close to 50 mil. They will need to pick up the option on Sam Young and also decide if they will make a run run at keeping Battier, they might not as Gay will be back and Young can fill Shane's role. In order to continue their success I think they need to retain Marc, I just don't know if they can afford him now that he has been really ballin in the playoffs....sign and trade may be the only way they get something for him.

  17. #237
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    I'd imagine that Memphis will try to move O.J. Mayo, for cap relief this off-season in order to re-sign Gasol.
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  18. #238
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    TPE for OJ!
    @jerboat

  19. #239
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    We don't need Mayo with DeMar on the team. HE is not a big risk as he has one year then he can be qualified, but what team really wants him?

  20. #240
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    OJ Mayo and DeMar DeRozan are entirely different players. Mayo is a SG with the ability to play PG. DeRozan is a SG with the ability to play SF. If DeRozan packs on a few pounds he could easily shift to to 3. For that matter Mayo has been working on his PG skills and he could play the point and split duties with Bayless, should Calderon be traded. Mayo is fast, atheltic, has a great handle, can pass and shoot.

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