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Thread: Available legitimate Center for Toronto

  1. #41
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I buy it. Babcock was hired a week-week and a half before the draft? This is why I think the existing brass made the pick. I don't think he was blind, but I don't think he was the kind of guy wanting to rock the boat and he was going to go along with the consensus. Babcock in the end favoured Luke Jackson (he was kinda high on Jameer Nelson as well), so in the end, whether we ended up with Araujo or Jackson, it would have been a bad selection.
    If Araujo really wasn't his pick, then I completely blame him, either way. If I'm in his position and Iguodala drops, I draft him and tell McCloskey that I'm going to be the one that's ultimately responsible for it, in the eyes of the fans, and that Iguodala is my choice.

    On a side note, I was listening to the draft on internet radio, and for a second, thought they had drafted Iguodala because all my brain heard was a vaguely Spanish sounding name (I don't exactly know what Iguodala is, but it sound Spanish to me) and it took me a second to realize that it wasn't the Spanish sounding name I expected. Truth be told, I didn't hate the pick, but I thought they were idiots for passing on a much better player that dropped in their lap.
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  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Like Babcock with Hoffa. Oh man, we need a center, quick, grab the first center!
    there was so much wrong with that one... "we need a centre... hey there's a chubby looking brazilian kid who plays at that overachieving mormon school... and he's got a snoopy tattoo. WIN"

  3. #43
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Because of all the options mentioned, he is the only one I consider realistic. Chandler is injury prone and getting old. Jordan will be resigned and just about any offer matched. Gasol will be resigned and any offer matched. Nazr too old. I keep mentioning Jefferson because he would be an upgrade over Bargnani at the C in rebounding and defense (that is how bad Bargnani is) and he offers the same amount of scoring and in a more efficient manner. The fact Utah is not close to competing, they are a small market combined with Jefferson's contract could make him available (speculation on my part with some Utah newspaper rumblings - still speculation though). His defense was awful last year and seems to be improved this year probably due to his ACL continuing to heal. Drafting Valanciunas with Jefferson on board allows Jonas to stay in Europe and still develop in case of a lockout, stay in Europe and develop if his contract does not allow him to get over immediately, or play a reserve role and develop properly if there is a season and he can get out of his European contract.

    *EDIT* Kaman might also be a realistic possibility but might need a 3 team deal unless Bargnani becomes a 6th man in La-La Land.
    I'd rather just grab a half decent guy who can play 20-25 mpg for a season or two, but who won't demand much money and you wouldn't think twice about sitting on the bench if someone better comes along. Someone like Nazr Mohammed or even Jamaal Magloire. I don't care if they aren't good starting material because it doesn't really matter in the long run. This team isn't doing much next year, whether we like to believe it or not.
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  4. #44
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    It is precisely this lack of desirable replacement C that has me thinking that keeping Bargnani for 1 more season may in fact be the best option.

    With the Raps likely to add at least one more offensive weapon, it should take some scoring pressure off Bargnani which ideally would see him still drop 20-25 pts but on less shots. The best case scenario has him focusing on defense & rebounding this offseason, leading to significant improvement next season. Maybe Davis bulks up enough over the next year or two and he can start at the 5 while Bargnani starts at the 4.

    Worst case scenario is that no improvement is shown defensively next season and he gets moved during the season or next offseason. If the only alternatives are crazy overpaying an average player or starting a player equally 1-dimensional (defensive instead of offensive), what's the point? Why not give him one more season to hopefully develop a defensive game, while continuing to build chemistry with the team?

  5. #45
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I'd rather just grab a half decent guy who can play 20-25 mpg for a season or two, but who won't demand much money and you wouldn't think twice about sitting on the bench if someone better comes along. Someone like Nazr Mohammed or even Jamaal Magloire. I don't care if they aren't good starting material because it doesn't really matter in the long run. This team isn't doing much next year, whether we like to believe it or not.
    I would love Magloire for a backup C, even 3rd string. Could come for vet minimum, finish in his hometown. He keeps in great shape and has total attitude on the court (not off). Comes in and plays solid even if only spot minutes and sparingly.
    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    It is precisely this lack of desirable replacement C that has me thinking that keeping Bargnani for 1 more season may in fact be the best option.

    With the Raps likely to add at least one more offensive weapon, it should take some scoring pressure off Bargnani which ideally would see him still drop 20-25 pts but on less shots. The best case scenario has him focusing on defense & rebounding this offseason, leading to significant improvement next season. Maybe Davis bulks up enough over the next year or two and he can start at the 5 while Bargnani starts at the 4.

    Worst case scenario is that no improvement is shown defensively next season and he gets moved during the season or next offseason. If the only alternatives are crazy overpaying an average player or starting a player equally 1-dimensional (defensive instead of offensive), what's the point? Why not give him one more season to hopefully develop a defensive game, while continuing to build chemistry with the team?
    Then Bargs' trade value nose-dives.

  6. #46
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    It is precisely this lack of desirable replacement C that has me thinking that keeping Bargnani for 1 more season may in fact be the best option.

    With the Raps likely to add at least one more offensive weapon, it should take some scoring pressure off Bargnani which ideally would see him still drop 20-25 pts but on less shots. The best case scenario has him focusing on defense & rebounding this offseason, leading to significant improvement next season. Maybe Davis bulks up enough over the next year or two and he can start at the 5 while Bargnani starts at the 4.

    Worst case scenario is that no improvement is shown defensively next season and he gets moved during the season or next offseason. If the only alternatives are crazy overpaying an average player or starting a player equally 1-dimensional (defensive instead of offensive), what's the point? Why not give him one more season to hopefully develop a defensive game, while continuing to build chemistry with the team?
    The whole idea is to buy low and sell high. Bargnani's trade value peaked last summer. Continuing to keep him just means you're going to get less and less for him. What's the point in that?
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  7. #47
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Guys, Kaman is 29 years old. Is he the guy in the middle that a Raptors team would want even though they won't be ready to legitimately contend for another three or four years if it all goes right?

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
    HateLosing:

    I think if we throw enough money at Marc Gasol we could get him.



    I think Marc is restricted free agent. It will take more than 12 million a year to get him away from Memphis. Is he really worth 13-14 million a year !!


    Same goes for DeAndre Jordan (preferable IMO).
    What is so special about DeAndre Jordan !!! Look at his numbers here and tell me if you really want to give this guy a long term contract and consider him your future center !!
    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/deandre_jordan/index.html

    Greg Oden is a restricted free agent , he's mighty risky but if he can come in and stay healthy he's got franchise Center written all over him.

    I fully agree with that and I think he is worth the risk.

    And if we get really desperate, Sam Dalembert is a free agent,
    Again, Look at my comment for Deandre !! Dalmebert has toxic attitude and he was not even able to pull his weight in a bad team like kings. Why invest in him ? He is not the answer.

    along with Tyson Chandler.
    Cuban will lock him out. No way, No Chance.

    At the end, there are not much options out there. Your best available center is DeAndre and I am not even sure how good he really is.
    I personally like DeAndre Jordan because he is young and a sick athlete. He is a 6'11", 270 pounds and has a tonne of potential. His shot blocking ability and size in combination with a guy like Ed Davis would dive us one of the best defensive front courts a few years down the road. In his second year he is averaging a double double per 36 minutes and 2.5 blocks. Keep in mind his rebounding numbers may be a little low due to playing with Blake who grabs so many boards. I'd be willing to put some money into a guy like that.

    Saying there is no chance at these guys is a little pessimistic, we don't know know what will happen. Maybe the Mavs lose in the first and Cuban decides to blow it up. You never knoew
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  9. #49
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Guys, Kaman is 29 years old. Is he the guy in the middle that a Raptors team would want even though they won't be ready to legitimately contend for another three or four years if it all goes right?
    Man, is he that old? Time flies. Scratch him off - although he will be available when they resign Jordan.

  10. #50
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I personally like DeAndre Jordan because he is young and a sick athlete. He is a 6'11", 270 pounds and has a tonne of potential. His shot blocking ability and size in combination with a guy like Ed Davis would dive us one of the best defensive front courts a few years down the road. In his second year he is averaging a double double per 36 minutes and 2.5 blocks. Keep in mind his rebounding numbers may be a little low due to playing with Blake who grabs so many boards. I'd be willing to put some money into a guy like that.

    Saying there is no chance at these guys is a little pessimistic, we don't know know what will happen. Maybe the Mavs lose in the first and Cuban decides to blow it up. You never knoew
    In don't see the point at all in going after Tyson Chandler. He's 30 years old. If you can get Dalembert for cheap, then I can see, but otherwise there's no way I'd want to tie money up on older veterans.
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  11. #51
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    In his second year he is averaging a double double per 36 minutes and 2.5 blocks. Keep in mind his rebounding numbers may be a little low due to playing with Blake who grabs so many boards. I'd be willing to put some money into a guy like that.

    Lets not do the Per 36 since that is such misleading statistic and many scrubs will look like Micheal Jordan when going based on that stat. The bottom line is that he is unproven and his current numbers are nothing to write home about:

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/deandre_jordan/index.html

    The Key here is that we can not just keep in investing on players without really looking at what they are and hoping it will pay off. Prime example is AB !! We invested 5 years in developing AB and hoping he will be a great defender and ... and now, we are blowing it up and can not wait to ship him out of the town.

    The analogy for these sort of investment is like a stock broker that is just gambling on its entire portfolio. Sooner or later, he will end up broke just like we did after five years. In this league , you can go forward with blowing your team up every year, change focus.

    Investing in DeAndrea is not going to be cheap. He will probably want a 4-5 year deal worth 9-10 million a year.

    Is he worth it ? Maybe, but such a high risk.

    Saying there is no chance at these guys is a little pessimistic, we don't know know what will happen. Maybe the Mavs lose in the first and Cuban decides to blow it up

    That is wishful thinking. even if Cuban decide to blow it up he will not trade his starting center who has finally given them a defensive anchor down in the paint. He will move other players before he moves Tyson Chandler. If you read the report on Chandler in Dallas now, it is all positive and I don't think Cuban will ship him.

  12. #52
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    Man, is he that old? Time flies. Scratch him off - although he will be available when they resign Jordan.

    Kaman is worthless. I was living in LA and seen him play up close for over 3 years and they guy has no drive, no dedication to the game and no desire to take his game to the next level. Investing all that money on him was a mistake by Clippers and I am sure they can not wait to fix that and get rid of that contract.
    Last edited by Raptor4Ever; Fri Apr 15th, 2011 at 05:01 PM.

  13. #53
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Man, is he that old? Time flies. Scratch him off - although he will be available when they resign Jordan.
    If they could land him for Calderon or Barbosa and some little piece I would be up for it. I'm not sure the Clippers would be interested in either player right now.

  14. #54
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    At the end of the day, we need to address this need for a "True Center", " Real Presence" , a guy who knows how " to play in the paint" and how to " defend the paint" this off season or we will have Amir and DD and rest of the gang, use the same excuse next year for their lack of defense and bad play on the defensive end again and again and ...

    It has been 5 years now and this team and these players needs to fix this problem. It is time for BC to take away all the excuses from his Coaching Staff and his players and give them the tool that they " Supposedly" need .

    I said it before and the exsit interview proved that I was wrong all along. Players like Amir and DD decided to take an easy way out and shift all the blame of the defensive problems of this team on ONE Player and ONE position
    on this team.

    Some fans are buying this and I can not wait till AB is gone so the excuses are gone as well. It is time for accountability. It is time to make players take responsibility for their mistakes or ... Saying it was all the fault of one player and ... was a easy way out.

    Now, I want BC to deliver that " Center" that these guys are longing for and see if DD then can stay in front of his man or if Amir will not foul a 3 point shooter at the last minute of the game and if the team defense will improve significantly as these guys made it sound.
    Last edited by Raptor4Ever; Fri Apr 15th, 2011 at 05:03 PM.

  15. #55
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    I think Amir and DeRozan called it like it is. Yeah, they weren't diplomatic in their presser but who cares. I am happy they didn't walk in there and B.S. us all on notions of "let's ignore the blatantly obvious weak spots, we struggled on defense because we all equally didn't do our jobs. I am just as much to blame as the guy who couldn't guard his own shadow and who shows no desire to overcome his inadequacies through hard work."

  16. #56
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    If we can somehow get Deandre Jordan it can addd another piece to our young core. Greg Oden is an option but only if he is able to stay healthy.

  17. #57
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think Amir and DeRozan called it like it is. Yeah, they weren't diplomatic in their presser but who cares. I am happy they didn't walk in there and B.S. us all on notions of "let's ignore the blatantly obvious weak spots, we struggled on defense because we all equally didn't do our jobs. I am just as much to blame as the guy who couldn't guard his own shadow and who shows no desire to overcome his inadequacies through hard work."
    I'm with ya.

  18. #58
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    The Raps should try to pry Minnesota's pick and either Wes Johnson (preferably) or Flynn in exchange for Bargnani. k.

  19. #59
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    I like the idea of picking up Greg Oden for the following reasons:

    He's still only 23 ie a year younger than Andrew Bynum. If the Lakers can continue to have faith in Bynum, even though Oden has played less, there's no reason not to believe he won't be able to ever play in the future.

    Although microfracture surgery takes a long time to heal, and players can end up not being the same afterwards (Webber), it's come a long way in the past decade, and is much more effective than it used to be (see Stoudamire).

    Bone cells in the human body are the only cells that, when repaired with scar tissue, are stronger then they were previously. Also, it's been noted that microfracture surgery, if performed on younger people, are more effective because the body is better able to heal at that age.

    Greg Oden has skill to play in the paint, play as a centre. Even if he doesn't put up high numbers, this guy is a defensive power akin to Dwight Howard (obvious diff being his injuries.)

    Personally, I think a lot of people are stupid to overlook Oden at this age. All he needs is time for his body to heal properly, and then possibly an atheltic Trainer to get him to move and contort his body in proper ways without causing further damage (ie as Nash does). Heck, putting two braces on his legs would help keep him from further injuries. But make no mistake that he's got immense talent, and personally I think, with his stock so low, even if it still seems like a risk, it is a fantastic time to make a move for him because the dividends would pay off within a maximum 2 years or so.

    That's just my attempt to make a case for him.

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Marc Gasol is perfect. Add OJ Mayo for Bargs, Jose and Alabi.

    Draft Barnes at 3rd pick. Get a decent point guard to backup Bayless. (hey, try Nash for a year. It would be good for the young guys)

    Derozan, Davis, Gasol, O.J and Bayless/Nash as a starting 5. Amir, Reggie, James Johnson and Barnes coming off the bench.

    Play some damned D for goodness sake. I'll be happy enough.

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