Keep Bargnani trade idea thread

[mcHAPPY]

A lot of discussion about trading Bargnani, but what if the Raps kept him.

Post trades in this forum that would justify keeping him. Try to keep them reasonable and if possible provide a rationale for your thinking.

[mcHAPPY]

Toronto-Milwaukee

Keep in mind I don't necessarily think this has any chance of happening but it might be good discussion to think of a situation where Bargnani could be kept. Also these types of 'what if's' will become more plausible once the draft order is done

Take in to consideration Skiles comments:

“It was a challenging season and I will learn from it.” Skiles said that it was “yet to be determined’ whether or not Jennings, Andrew Bogut, and John Salmons could be the foundation of a playoff team. And, as the Bucks move forward, is there anyone on the roster that management would consider to be an “untouchable” when it comes to trades? “How could we?” said Skiles. “That would be foolish.”

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119975604.html

Trade: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3oce9os

MIL: Calderon, Davis, 2011 first round pick (swap)
TOR: Bogut

Rationale:

Milwaukee struggled this year without a PG to run the 2nd unit. They did miss Ridnour as he was a very, very good backup PG for the reserve unit. Calderon could step in and provide a nice change of pace as he and Jennings are almost polar opposites on the court. Calderon would be very expensive however the Bucks arne't going to be luring top tier free agents (Drew Gooden?) so why not especially considering Jennings is on his rookie deal for the length of Calderon's contract. Davis is a great young prospect as we all know. The Raps would draft Kanter and send him to MIL. Davis/Sanders/Kanter could become a great 3 headed monster of a rotation on the front line.

Toronto gets a true C who is one of the best rebounding, shot blocking, and charge drawing bigs in the league. Injury history is a concern as is poor FT shooting. He is not a prolific scorer but he is good for 12-15 per game and he will hurt most C's in the league in single coverage. He is also a very good passer for a big man. Obviously with Bargnani on the perimeter they could create some match up nightmares. TOR gets Knight/Walker/Thompson/Veesley/Leonard with MIL's pick.

Another option if MIL balks at Calderon's contract might be Barbosa if he opts in:

MIL: Barbosa, Davis, swap 2011 draft pick
TOR: Bogut, swap 2011 draft picks

Barbosa would be instant offense to the worst offensive team in the league.

*EDIT* Maybe TOR adds a future 1st round pick with protections?

[mcHAPPY]

Toronto-Orlando

MB4 (NJ)

Does the Dwight trade go down this summer or next deadline? And would you dismiss the Bulls b/c Rose likes his core as is + Dwight wants it to be his stage. On the court the Nets are the better option than the Lakers longterm but how big of a star does Dwight want to be?

Ric Bucher (1:53 PM)


I would expect a Dwight trade this summer or before the next season starts, from what I'm hearing. Rose likes his core because it's the core he has. He's not opposed to the Bulls improving it.

Source: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/37836

What if Orlando and Toronto pull a Utah/NJ type deal. Toronto would be taking a major gamble, much like NJ, on what if D12 does not resign.

Unfortunately, I cannot think of anything at this time that would match up salaries until after the season. It would be a major salary dump by ORL.

ORL: Davis, 2011 1st round pick (Kanter? Irving? Williams?), 2013 1st round pick, 2015 1st round pick
TOR: Howard

Obviously, this is not going to happen.

[SuperRaptor]

In my opinion I think that what this team needs most is to trade calderon, move bayless to the PG and get a real bonafide C. I dont want us to draft a C because he will take too long to develop so I wish that we use our draft pick to get a SF. That being said, with the financial flexibility that we have available and a decent crop of C's becoming free agents in the offseason (Nene, Gasol, Chandler etc.) we can address our issues with free agency.

Trading Bargnani is not a necessity at this point, I know everyone wants to blame him for our defensive woes, but its not all his fault, this team doesnt have a C, Colangelo tried to get dampier, and chandler in the offseason he knew we had a hole there. If bargnani is moved to the PF, and we get a defense first kind of C like Varejao for example I think Bargnani can flourish. With bayless at the PG our defense at the point of attack wont be so soft, this means that we can have depth with amir and ed coming off the bench. Play 4 bigs around 25 min. a game, their will always be injuries depth is crucial to being successful.

But a starting lineup of:

C- Nene, Gasol, Chandler, Varejao (examples)
PF Bargnani
SF James Johnson/Top 3 Pick
SG Derozan
PG Bayless

would have some serious fire power, I dont think people realize how close we are to being a good team, we have a lot going for us, a plethora of young talent, tons of cap space and a good pick coming up. Lets look at how our bench would be like:

C- Ed Davis
PF- Amir Johnson
SF- James Johnson/Top 3 Pick
SG- Barbosa
PG- Calderon or hopefully a cheaper younger PG prospect to develop.

I think this lineup would make the playoffs, but thats just me, tell me what you guys think.

[WJF]

Keep in mind I don't necessarily think this has any chance of happening but it might be good discussion to think of a situation where Bargnani could be kept. Also these types of 'what if's' will become more plausible once the draft order is done

Take in to consideration Skiles comments:



http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/119975604.html

Trade: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3oce9os

MIL: Calderon, Davis, 2011 first round pick (swap)
TOR: Bogut

Rationale:

Milwaukee struggled this year without a PG to run the 2nd unit. They did miss Ridnour as he was a very, very good backup PG for the reserve unit. Calderon could step in and provide a nice change of pace as he and Jennings are almost polar opposites on the court. Calderon would be very expensive however the Bucks arne't going to be luring top tier free agents (Drew Gooden?) so why not especially considering Jennings is on his rookie deal for the length of Calderon's contract. Davis is a great young prospect as we all know. The Raps would draft Kanter and send him to MIL. Davis/Sanders/Kanter could become a great 3 headed monster of a rotation on the front line.

Toronto gets a true C who is one of the best rebounding, shot blocking, and charge drawing bigs in the league. Injury history is a concern as is poor FT shooting. He is not a prolific scorer but he is good for 12-15 per game and he will hurt most C's in the league in single coverage. He is also a very good passer for a big man. Obviously with Bargnani on the perimeter they could create some match up nightmares. TOR gets Knight/Walker/Thompson/Veesley/Leonard with MIL's pick.

Another option if MIL balks at Calderon's contract might be Barbosa if he opts in:

MIL: Barbosa, Davis, swap 2011 draft pick
TOR: Bogut, swap 2011 draft picks

Barbosa would be instant offense to the worst offensive team in the league.

*EDIT* Maybe TOR adds a future 1st round pick with protections?

Bogut is still a question mark as to his future health, he was not 100% all season and still requires more surgery. I also think Davis showed too much to throw him in this deal. If Davis was not included I would do it, with Davis no way I swap picks.

[Balls of Steel]

A lot of discussion about trading Bargnani, but what if the Raps kept him.

Post trades in this forum that would justify keeping him. Try to keep them reasonable and if possible provide a rationale for your thinking.

Not to poo-poo on your thread but keeping Bargnani poses problems with our 4's. Getting Bogut, while admirable but at the cost of a Davis is a no-no imo. Bargs really has to go (which is counter to the impetus of this thread, I know).

[Maleko]

Not to poo-poo on your thread but keeping Bargnani poses problems with our 4's. Getting Bogut, while admirable but at the cost of a Davis is a no-no imo. Bargs really has to go (which is counter to the impetus of this thread, I know).

I am with you.

[mcHAPPY]

Not to poo-poo on your thread but keeping Bargnani poses problems with our 4's. Getting Bogut, while admirable but at the cost of a Davis is a no-no imo. Bargs really has to go (which is counter to the impetus of this thread, I know).

LOL - poo-poo away.

I am for whatever makes the team better. The point of the thread was to provide fans who want to keep Bargnani an opportunity to make their case as to why and how. It is obvious the current situation is not working and their are two ways to approach it: 1) try to make it work with him, or 2) move on without him. One thread was already made for option 2, this is the thread for option 1.

Personally, I think it is time to go. I think (and hope!) his value is better than what many around here think of him.

[WJF]

The key to keeping Andre may be to move Amir. Ed is the keeper of our two young power forwards, maybe a package of Amir and someone can bring in a starting caliber center. A solid 3 man rotation of Andrea, Ed, and ? center, with a guy like Reggie as a 4th big to get minutes.

I am not sure who would be available that would fit the requirements, I will do little research and throw out a name or two.

[e2thed]

Like come on people who would you rather have, a beefed up Davis, or the same Bargs. Get real people seriously.

[Hugmenot]

I split the games into games Bargnai played less than 20 minutes and games Bargnani played 20 or more minutes, and then broke down DeRozan's stats.

When Bargnani played less than 20 minutes, DeRozan shot
63.4% at the rim (52-82)
42.5% from 3-9 feet (20-47)
37.0% from 10-15 feet (17-46)
37.2% from 16-23 feet (38-102)
6.25% from 3-point land (1-16)
43.7% total (128-293)

When Bargnani played 20 pr more minutes, DeRozan shot
59.4% at the rim (164-276)
48.7% from 3-9 feet (58-119)
50.4% from 10-15 feet (59-117)
40.3% from 16-23 feet (126-313)
11.1% from 3-point land (4-36)
47.70% total (411-861)

It seems to me there is a strong correlation between DeRozan shooting percentage and the presence of Bargnani. Correlation, not necessarily causality.

I wish I had better detailed stats to examine what exactly, if anything, Bargnani brings to the table which allows DeRozan to shoot at a higher percentage. I don't but I am sure the Raptors can review the game tapes and have a much better answer. I think the team should figure out the answers on a wider scale before they decide whether or not to trade Bargnani. I suspect he is much more than a volume shooter but that's just a hunch, not the results of a deep study of the data.

Personally, I would keep Bargnani at the beginning of the season and determine how effective he would be if he's matched with Ed Davis up front.

It would be the first time Bargnani is matched with a player who shows both good defensive instincts and very good defensive rebounding skills (Amir Johnson is an average, or maybe slightly above defensive rebounder since coming to Toronto).

I am not sure it would work but I prefer that to trading him for another set of unknown problems.

[mcHAPPY]

I split the games into games Bargnai played less than 20 minutes and games Bargnani played 20 or more minutes, and then broke down DeRozan's stats.

When Bargnani played less than 20 minutes, DeRozan shot
63.4% at the rim (52-82)
42.5% from 3-9 feet (20-47)
37.0% from 10-15 feet (17-46)
37.2% from 16-23 feet (38-102)
6.25% from 3-point land (1-16)
43.7% total (128-293)

When Bargnani played 20 pr more minutes, DeRozan shot
59.4% at the rim (164-276)
48.7% from 3-9 feet (58-119)
50.4% from 10-15 feet (59-117)
40.3% from 16-23 feet (126-313)
11.1% from 3-point land (4-36)
47.70% total (411-861)

It seems to me there is a strong correlation between DeRozan shooting percentage and the presence of Bargnani. Correlation, not necessarily causality.

I wish I had better detailed stats to examine what exactly, if anything, Bargnani brings to the table which allows DeRozan to shoot at a higher percentage. I don't but I am sure the Raptors can review the game tapes and have a much better answer. I think the team should figure out the answers on a wider scale before they decide whether or not to trade Bargnani. I suspect he is much more than a volume shooter but that's just a hunch, not the results of a deep study of the data.

Personally, I would keep Bargnani at the beginning of the season and determine how effective he would be if he's matched with Ed Davis up front.

It would be the first time Bargnani is matched with a player who shows both good defensive instincts and very good defensive rebounding skills (Amir Johnson is an average, or maybe slightly above defensive rebounder since coming to Toronto).

I am not sure it would work but I prefer that to trading him for another set of unknown problems.

Nice work.

I think the difference is because Bargnani is a threat to score making things open up for Toronto. When guys are on the floor who are not a threat to score (like Reggie, or Dorsey, or Julian) it allows the other team to tighten up D.

I think if you take the top 2 offensive players off most teams and sit one, the other has more difficulty scoring - I have no way to back this up, just adding my opinion.

[mcHAPPY]

Toronto-Cleveland

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3fzv96w

CLE: TOR's 1st round pick
TOR: Varejo (TPE), LAC's 1st round pick

Rationale:

TOR: Varejo is a good defensive C and after Irving and Williams there isn't much to get excited about. They may be able to get Kanter or Valanciunas if they slide.

CLE: Get 2 possible top 5 draft picks and create some financial flexibility that they currently lack (only $3M under salary cap for next season under old CBA).

[Balls of Steel]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3fzv96w

CLE: TOR's 1st round pick
TOR: Varejo (TPE), LAC's 1st round pick

Rationale:

TOR: Varejo is a good defensive C and after Irving and Williams there isn't much to get excited about. They may be able to get Kanter or Valanciunas if they slide.

CLE: Get 2 possible top 5 draft picks and create some financial flexibility that they currently lack (only $3M under salary cap for next season under old CBA).

Nice trade for us but I really don't see any benefit for Cleveland to do this other than cap relief. If they trade Varejao, they are super thin up front with JJ Hickson as their Center. I don't see it happening.

[Hugmenot]

CLE: TOR's 1st round pick
TOR: Varejo (TPE), LAC's 1st round pick

I like it but I doubt Cleveland would agree to this trade.

It would be interesting to see who else is on the floor when Davis and Varejo are on the court together. Varejo and Davis took the majority of their shots at the rim and I suspect it's unlikely to change until Davis develops a consistent 10-15 foot jumper.

Maybe a wrecking crew in the backcourt (Barbosa, Bayless) with Kleiza at SF. It could be fun to watch.