View Poll Results: Should MLSE retain Colangelo?

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Thread: Grange: "retain Colangelo"

  1. #1
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Grange: "retain Colangelo"

    My vote is firmly for MLSE to retain Colangelo; the sooner the better and with a contract that shows their commitment to him.

    I think the way he handled himself was as good an example as any. As we all know he can spin and lobby for his cause with the best of them; ‘you’re right, I was wrong’ is not a phrase he’s ever run through Google Translate.

    But in his own way he’s been more accountable than he’s typically given credit. He never set out to become the face of the franchise when he came from Phoenix, but he very much has been, which has been a less desirable role in the past 18 months than it was before.
    under Colangelo’s watch, with his own contract and the contracts of the rest of the front office staff and the coaching staff hanging in the balance and heading into what will likely be a lockout year, he did what was probably the hardest thing for him to do which was, essentially, not much.

    The biggest deal was to move Jarrett Jack’s contract for Jerryd Bayless; gaining cap relief and a young player with some potential. Acquiring James Johnson from Chicago for a low first-round pick was also a low-risk move to gain a player with reasonable upside at little cost and no salary cap implications.

    But mostly the year was about letting the season run like water down a dry creek bed as an over-matched team with injuries and personel issues found it’s level and will have the third-best chance to win the first overall pick in the NBA draft lottery. As a man who fusses over decorating touches in the Raptors dressing room and the shade of red on the floor when it was repainted; simply letting things unfold was an act of considerable restraint and sacrifice.

    That was accomplished while players like DeMar DeRozen and Amir Johnson continued to develop; while the roster managed to play hard deep into the fourth quarter most nights. The accusations of his man-crush for Andrea Bargnani have generally been off-base. Sure he made the pick; but the kid has been just good enough to get people fired and will continue to be just that for the rest of his career. Colangelo signed him to a relatively cap-friendly deal of $50-million over five years and there will be no hesitation to trade him now that five years into his career there’s a comfort level within the organization that Bargnani is most likely going to be one of those players who looks like an MVP candidate some nights and a decent sixth man some others and shot-hogging stiff everyone once in a while just to confuse things.

    Winning is what professional sports is all about; but there’s something to be said for an executive who has experienced the heights of industry – putting together 60-win teams; winning executive of the year recognition twice – accepting (perhaps too late or too grudgingly for my tastes) the need to take multiple steps back in order to go forward again.
    We’d all have more confidence in MLSE if they’d recognized they wanted to fire Colangelo and had an alternative plan in place and made the move in December. That would suggest sports intellects in charge that could plot a clear path and execute.

    But that never happened and instead there was the single person most closely identified with a $399-million asset and one of the most influential and respected figures in the sport giving a season-ending press conference qualifying nearly every answer with some version of “If I’m here” and listing his accomplishments like an MBA grad at a job interview: “In terms of passion for the business and dedication to the organization …I would hope people think I am the right guy.”

    The temptation to light a fire to the whole thing, I’m sure, was real. To just say it’s been five years of climbing up hill here; I did some pretty good things; I took some risks and not all of them worked out, but guess what? This is pro sports; not the investment industry. There are no management fees built-in to assure everyone a profit regardless of what happens to market.

    Those so eager to see Colangelo move on might want to give a some hard thought to what the Plan B might be.
    Source: The Globe And Mail

    I am extremely certain that as is, if Colangelo is allowed to walk, a lesser GM will take his place at a critical moment of a Raptors rebuild. It's just plain stupid not to keep him when they have no backup plan. It's not fair to us the fans even if we don't all realize the negative consequences of what may unfold thanks to some accountant on the board representing a investment group who could care less about how the product looks or how the fans feel about it.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Source: The Globe And Mail

    I am extremely certain that as is, if Colangelo is allowed to walk, a lesser GM will take his place at a critical moment of a Raptors rebuild. It's just plain stupid not to keep him when they have no backup plan. It's not fair to us the fans even if we don't all realize the negative consequences of what may unfold thanks to some accountant on the board representing a investment group who could care less about how the product looks or how the fans feel about it.
    And when you consider the team has never been more profitable under his watch it is clear there is personal issues at play - in my very big assumption opinion.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    My vote is for him to stay!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And when you consider the team has never been more profitable under his watch it is clear there is personal issues at play - in my very big assumption opinion.
    And when you also consider he mentioned yesterday season ticket purchases and renewals were higher than the last couple of years (with a 22 win team) it gives an indication the fanbase likes what they see moving forward*.

    *lower prices may have something to do with it as well.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Good article, it articulates the pros/cons of the looming decision whether to keep BC quite well.

    I'd like to see him stick around for at least another 2 seasons, since there's a good chance the Raps will be a lottery team again next year. I want to see where BC can take this team after 3 true rebuilding seasons. We just finished #1 and when I compare where the team is this offseason compared to last offseason, without even factoring in the draft and any trades/signings, I am quite happy overall.

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    I agree that BC has to stay. His patience with this protracted process at MLSE alone is reason for him to rise in the estimation of Raps fans, but he has set the table for steady progress in the years ahead. I don't know of anyone else out there who could fill his shoes.

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    I am for keeping him no surprises here. Definitely do not want to change ships in the middle of a rebuild, and that all important (as Matt pointed out) "the team has never been more profitable". This allows more moves, more freedom, more excitement.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I am extremely certain that as is, if Colangelo is allowed to walk, a lesser GM will take his place at a critical moment of a Raptors rebuild. It's just plain stupid not to keep him when they have no backup plan. It's not fair to us the fans even if we don't all realize the negative consequences of what may unfold thanks to some accountant on the board representing a investment group who could care less about how the product looks or how the fans feel about it.
    Let me play Devil's Advocate to the "BC must stay meme".

    1. BC makes the pick in the draft. BC leaves. NBA lockout. MLSE searches for new GM. MLSE (just cause it's MLSE) picks worst GM alive in the history of mankind. Team is awful in 2011-12 (assuming there is even a season). Team is sold. New owner does 'x'. Team still sucks in 2012-13. New owner replaces management team.

    2. BC makes the pick in the draft. BC is re-signed. NBA lockout. Team is awful in 2011-12 (assuming season). Team is sold. New owner does 'x'. Team is awful to low-end playoff team in 2012-13. New owner makes decision on BC.

    Or does everyone believe that BC, and only BC, can turn this roster into a championship contender inside of 6 months?

    I see everyone writing that this is a critical time for the Raptors in this rebuild while at the same time writing that: this draft is awful, there is uncertainty about free agents given the lockout, there is going to be a lockout, and this team needs a long rebuild of three to five years. Given all of that, is signing Colangelo to a 5-year deal really that critical? The idea posited in the above post is that BC is irreplacable is nonsense. As I've noted time and time again, we won't know who is available until they start looking (see: Colangelo, Brian; Raptors, 2006). The idea the Raptors couldn't do better than Colangelo is based on the Babcock hire in 2005 but blithely ignores the Colangelo hire in 2006, which these same people thought was a great hire. It also requires mental gymnastics of Olympian quality to convince yourself that Colangelo has done a good job in Toronto.

    If this latter position is, "Colangelo has done a bad job but we will never find anyone better cause it's the Raptors", then perhaps, if the standards are so low, the team should simply fold up its tent and disband.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Good article, it articulates the pros/cons of the looming decision whether to keep BC quite well.

    I'd like to see him stick around for at least another 2 seasons, since there's a good chance the Raps will be a lottery team again next year. I want to see where BC can take this team after 3 true rebuilding seasons. We just finished #1 and when I compare where the team is this offseason compared to last offseason, without even factoring in the draft and any trades/signings, I am quite happy overall.
    You thought that was year 1 of the rebuild? i ithnk the rebuild starts now with this top 3 draft pick. the rebuild kinda started this year but no really. 2011-2012 is the official first year of the rebuild.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    I am for keeping him no surprises here. Definitely do not want to change ships in the middle of a rebuild, and that all important (as Matt pointed out) "the team has never been more profitable". This allows more moves, more freedom, more excitement.
    i tihnk the raptors are in the best possition they have every been in. the USA has siffering with a poor economy and Canada is the exact opposite. we are doing better then ever before and our dollar was at $1.04 can to $1.00 US.

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    I am positive Colangelo will be back. If I have one knock on him its that he shouldn't of tried to rebuild around Bosh. That being said, I don't know if he necessarily wanted to build around Bosh, or to simply please the fans. Either way, he has a nose for drafting diamonds. I am excited to see what he can do in this next phase of the Raptors rebuilding process.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Let me play Devil's Advocate to the "BC must stay meme".

    1. BC makes the pick in the draft. BC leaves. NBA lockout. MLSE searches for new GM. MLSE (just cause it's MLSE) picks worst GM alive in the history of mankind. Team is awful in 2011-12 (assuming there is even a season). Team is sold. New owner does 'x'. Team still sucks in 2012-13. New owner replaces management team.

    2. BC makes the pick in the draft. BC is re-signed. NBA lockout. Team is awful in 2011-12 (assuming season). Team is sold. New owner does 'x'. Team is awful to low-end playoff team in 2012-13. New owner makes decision on BC.

    Or does everyone believe that BC, and only BC, can turn this roster into a championship contender inside of 6 months?

    I see everyone writing that this is a critical time for the Raptors in this rebuild while at the same time writing that: this draft is awful, there is uncertainty about free agents given the lockout, there is going to be a lockout, and this team needs a long rebuild of three to five years. Given all of that, is signing Colangelo to a 5-year deal really that critical? The idea posited in the above post is that BC is irreplacable is nonsense. As I've noted time and time again, we won't know who is available until they start looking (see: Colangelo, Brian; Raptors, 2006). The idea the Raptors couldn't do better than Colangelo is based on the Babcock hire in 2005 but blithely ignores the Colangelo hire in 2006, which these same people thought was a great hire. It also requires mental gymnastics of Olympian quality to convince yourself that Colangelo has done a good job in Toronto.

    If this latter position is, "Colangelo has done a bad job but we will never find anyone better cause it's the Raptors", then perhaps, if the standards are so low, the team should simply fold up its tent and disband.
    But again, there is the what have you done for me lately mentality. He won an Atlantic title, 2 playoff appearances, made ballsy moves to build around Bosh that didn't pan out, and, in less than one season of a rebuild, has the 5th lowest payroll committed for next year, acquired a few young players with upside (Bayless and James Johnson in particluar) and has made two great draft picks at 9 and 13 in the last 2 seasons. The worst of the rebuild is over in my opinion - bad contracts gone (Calderon and Bargnani arguable), high draft pick secured, young players acquired and developing, and financial flexibility means the ball is rolling.

    The team will most likely not compete for the playoffs again next season but for the long term development of the franchise, that is probably in its best interest especially considering the talent coming out next year.

    I don't think anyone has said BC is irreplaceable - if I am wrong, link the post. What people, myself included, are saying is:

    1) he is a very accomplished and good GM,
    2) given no search has begun, what viable candidate will be out there to not only replace him but to be better given his experience,
    3) who better to rebuild a franchise than a GM with a proven track record in the draft,
    4) who better to rebuild a franchise than a Gm with a proven track record of diamonds in the rough,
    5) who better to rebuild a franchise than a GM who is not afraid to pull the trigger on blockbuster deals.

    For a history of the franchise before Colangelo arrived, memory refresher:

    2005-06 NBA Toronto Raptors 27 55
    2004-05 NBA Toronto Raptors 33 49
    2003-04 NBA Toronto Raptors 33 49
    2002-03 NBA Toronto Raptors 24 58
    2001-02 NBA Toronto Raptors* 42 40
    2000-01 NBA Toronto Raptors* 47 35
    1999-00 NBA Toronto Raptors* 45 37
    1998-99 NBA Toronto Raptors 23 27
    1997-98 NBA Toronto Raptors 16 66
    1996-97 NBA Toronto Raptors 30 52
    1995-96 NBA Toronto Raptors 21 61

    And remember the stellar draft picks of the 2000's before BC Michael Bradley, Araujo, Kareem Rush (traded), Charlie V, and Joey Graham of the 2000's. The only solid pick was Bosh in 2003.

    Now recall the record of BC - not stellar this year but considering minus the VC playoff years the most games the Raps EVER won was 33 and all of a sudden it seems apparent how far the franchise has come:

    2010-11 NBA Toronto Raptors 22 60
    2009-10 NBA Toronto Raptors 40 42
    2008-09 NBA Toronto Raptors 33 49
    2007-08 NBA Toronto Raptors* 41 41
    2006-07 NBA Toronto Raptors* 47 35

    If BC is not kept on, I have much less hope moving forward.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    I see everyone writing that this is a critical time for the Raptors in this rebuild while at the same time writing that: this draft is awful, there is uncertainty about free agents given the lockout, there is going to be a lockout, and this team needs a long rebuild of three to five years. Given all of that, is signing Colangelo to a 5-year deal really that critical?
    More critical than ever to have a stable management in this time of uncertainty. I wouldn't want anyone in the league other than Fruitman analysing the new CBA in context of the Raptors salary situation, and I wouldn't want anyone else than BC mucking around with the draft. Say what you will about Colangelo's past trade history; his past draft history is up there with the best.

    On the trade front, there have been stinkers when going for broke (Hedo, Kapono, O'Neal) and there have been gems with the smaller moves when amassing assets and divesting shite (Hump/Hoffa, Hedo/LB, Johnson/Miami's 1st, Delfino/Amir, etc.). At the time of the Hedo deal, many thought it had an above-average chance of working out well based on Hedo's performance leading Orlando to the finals. Nobody could have predicted his attitude in Toronto. O'Neal was a skeptic's dream when it happened, but it did start well, and was a low-risk, high-reward move in any case.

    Really, the negative aspects of BC's tenure all go back to 2 keys:

    1. Trying to build around a guy (Bosh) who isn't designed to be a championship team's alpha dog and who maybe figured that out earlier himself than management did, and;

    2. Placing too much faith in the potential of Bargnani. The cliche that big men take longer to develop is overused, sure, but it's also accurate. So waiting 5 years in vain for AB can now be seen as hindsight, but trading him after, say, 3 years, when earning a rookie contract, would have risked having him blossom elsewhere for little in return. Now, after seeing him in the role that they hoped would spur his development (#1 scoring option, team "leader") they know, like we do, that he's not a great fit for this team.

    At this point, all signs point to BC and Triano both realzing (or admitting) the failures and deficiencies of this team. What they both said in their pressers is basically the same opinion voiced by hardcore fans, albeit in a more reasonable tone. So now it's on them to prove it through action.

    The roster does have potential. There is a lot of financial flexibility. They seem to realize what needs to be fixed, changed, etc. I really see no valid reason to change at this point.
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  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Let me play Devil's Advocate to the "BC must stay meme".

    1. BC makes the pick in the draft. BC leaves. NBA lockout. MLSE searches for new GM. MLSE (just cause it's MLSE) picks worst GM alive in the history of mankind. Team is awful in 2011-12 (assuming there is even a season). Team is sold. New owner does 'x'. Team still sucks in 2012-13. New owner replaces management team.

    2. BC makes the pick in the draft. BC is re-signed. NBA lockout. Team is awful in 2011-12 (assuming season). Team is sold. New owner does 'x'. Team is awful to low-end playoff team in 2012-13. New owner makes decision on BC.

    Or does everyone believe that BC, and only BC, can turn this roster into a championship contender inside of 6 months?

    I see everyone writing that this is a critical time for the Raptors in this rebuild while at the same time writing that: this draft is awful, there is uncertainty about free agents given the lockout, there is going to be a lockout, and this team needs a long rebuild of three to five years. Given all of that, is signing Colangelo to a 5-year deal really that critical? The idea posited in the above post is that BC is irreplacable is nonsense. As I've noted time and time again, we won't know who is available until they start looking (see: Colangelo, Brian; Raptors, 2006). The idea the Raptors couldn't do better than Colangelo is based on the Babcock hire in 2005 but blithely ignores the Colangelo hire in 2006, which these same people thought was a great hire. It also requires mental gymnastics of Olympian quality to convince yourself that Colangelo has done a good job in Toronto.

    If this latter position is, "Colangelo has done a bad job but we will never find anyone better cause it's the Raptors", then perhaps, if the standards are so low, the team should simply fold up its tent and disband.
    A five year deal? No...Hell no. 4 years, with team options for the last two. It seems like he's finally on the right track now though. He HAS done a good job with this rebuild so far.

    Do I have a problem with ownership hesitating to re-sign BC? No, but would I do have a problem with is the horrible, horrible timing of it. Prior to this year, BC hasn't done a good job, so they should have a few replacements in mind already, and should have started to search earlier.

  15. #15
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    I don't think he's done a great job, but I like where the team is currently headed, the focus on the future rather than trying to win now with a lower ceiling, and I think he's shown enough to give him a few more years.
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    I am extremely certain that as is, if Colangelo is allowed to walk, a lesser GM will take his place at a critical moment of a Raptors rebuild.


    Really !!! How are you certain !! What do you have to back your claim ! Are we suppose to just take your word for it ? What does it means a lesser GM !! A guy who is going to give us a team with less than 22 win after another 5 years !

    It's just plain stupid not to keep him when they have no backup plan.

    Again, where is the source of the information that they don't ? Portland changed GM on the Draft day and they are in Play off and making noise and ... The worst case scenario is that we can do the same.


    It's not fair to us the fans even if we don't all realize the negative consequences of what may unfold thanks to some accountant on the board representing a investment group who could care less about how the product looks or how the fans feel about it.

    Another big assumption on your part Pal !! First of all, How do fans feel about this ?? I know many who want BC to leave and see no future with him ? Why do you consider yourself the Majority ?

    How did the finished product looks now ? He is here for 5 years and the finish product is 22 win team !

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post


    If BC is not kept on, I have much less hope moving forward.
    You're a Raps fan and you still have hope? I admire your optimism.

    I won't change anyone's views on Colangelo, which were galvanized long ago and I understand the pro-BC narrative (I won't rehash old arguments cause we will never agree) but the fact remains that for all of BC's prowess the last 4 seasons have been a major disappointment and this team isn't anywhere close to where it was supposed to be 5 years ago when BC came to Toronto.

    One other thing, give him a mulligan if you wish and blame whomever you want for the failures of the organization the last 4 years but don't serve me Alpo and tell me it's caviar. If the standard we are holding Raptors management to is 1996-2005, which included expansion years and some of the worst management teams and ownership debacles in NBA history, then the bar is so low that it may as well just be buried.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    You thought that was year 1 of the rebuild? i ithnk the rebuild starts now with this top 3 draft pick. the rebuild kinda started this year but no really. 2011-2012 is the official first year of the rebuild.
    Absolutely we just finished year 1 of the rebuild.

    Prior to this season the franchise player was traded away, a second straight lottery pick was drafted, salary was dumped, young assets with potential were stockpiled to the point that the team has one of the youngest rosters in the league and the 22-win season was judged to be successful because of the development of primarily DeRozan and Davis... what more would a team have to do in a single season to constitute a rebuild, if that wasn't enough???

  19. #19
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    But again, there is the what have you done for me lately mentality. He won an Atlantic title, 2 playoff appearances, made ballsy moves to build around Bosh that didn't pan out, and, in less than one season of a rebuild, has the 5th lowest payroll committed for next year, acquired a few young players with upside (Bayless and James Johnson in particluar) and has made two great draft picks at 9 and 13 in the last 2 seasons. The worst of the rebuild is over in my opinion - bad contracts gone (Calderon and Bargnani arguable), high draft pick secured, young players acquired and developing, and financial flexibility means the ball is rolling.

    The team will most likely not compete for the playoffs again next season but for the long term development of the franchise, that is probably in its best interest especially considering the talent coming out next year.

    I don't think anyone has said BC is irreplaceable - if I am wrong, link the post. What people, myself included, are saying is:

    1) he is a very accomplished and good GM,
    2) given no search has begun, what viable candidate will be out there to not only replace him but to be better given his experience,
    3) who better to rebuild a franchise than a GM with a proven track record in the draft,
    4) who better to rebuild a franchise than a Gm with a proven track record of diamonds in the rough,
    5) who better to rebuild a franchise than a GM who is not afraid to pull the trigger on blockbuster deals.

    For a history of the franchise before Colangelo arrived, memory refresher:

    2005-06 NBA Toronto Raptors 27 55
    2004-05 NBA Toronto Raptors 33 49
    2003-04 NBA Toronto Raptors 33 49
    2002-03 NBA Toronto Raptors 24 58
    2001-02 NBA Toronto Raptors* 42 40
    2000-01 NBA Toronto Raptors* 47 35
    1999-00 NBA Toronto Raptors* 45 37
    1998-99 NBA Toronto Raptors 23 27
    1997-98 NBA Toronto Raptors 16 66
    1996-97 NBA Toronto Raptors 30 52
    1995-96 NBA Toronto Raptors 21 61

    And remember the stellar draft picks of the 2000's before BC Michael Bradley, Araujo, Kareem Rush (traded), Charlie V, and Joey Graham of the 2000's. The only solid pick was Bosh in 2003.

    Now recall the record of BC - not stellar this year but considering minus the VC playoff years the most games the Raps EVER won was 33 and all of a sudden it seems apparent how far the franchise has come:

    2010-11 NBA Toronto Raptors 22 60
    2009-10 NBA Toronto Raptors 40 42
    2008-09 NBA Toronto Raptors 33 49
    2007-08 NBA Toronto Raptors* 41 41
    2006-07 NBA Toronto Raptors* 47 35

    If BC is not kept on, I have much less hope moving forward.
    You think Colangelo had more to do with winning that division title and early successes more than Bosh and Mitchell did?


    I liked some of his acquisitions for that squad (TJ, Parker, Garbo) but they have all fallen off the NBA map (other than Parker playing for a bottom feeder) but Bosh's performance (2nd All NBA team) and Mitchell finding chemistry amongst 8-9 new acquisitions were larger factors to winning than Colangelo was.

    He didn't make 'ballsy' moves to build around Bosh otherwise he would have not drafted Bargnani who is a 'natural 4' as BC has indicated. Gettign O'Neal might be considered corageous but only becasue of his previous injury status. When did he ever cquire a swing who could make some plays down the stretch. Builing with Bosh and around him are 2 different things.

    If BC is kept on I expect more of the same. I'm hoping a change is in the works.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Absolutely we just finished year 1 of the rebuild.

    Prior to this season the franchise player was traded away, a second straight lottery pick was drafted, salary was dumped, young assets with potential were stockpiled to the point that the team has one of the youngest rosters in the league and the 22-win season was judged to be successful because of the development of primarily DeRozan and Davis... what more would a team have to do in a single season to constitute a rebuild, if that wasn't enough???
    Now it's a 'rebuild' but at the strart of the season it wasn't. Colangelo changes courses and words more frequently than any GM in the league. They made up their mind to go with a rebuild mid-season when he realized that the talent he assembled was shabby and that no trade was going to help them. Thats when the talk turned to youth, rebuilding and injuries, etc.

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