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Thread: Stein: If not Colangelo, Raps to draft in Embry?

  1. #21
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    i like analogies, especially ones that makes sense

    if a person has $20,000 for a new car, do you think that they'll compare it to ones that are $50,000 to see if their value measures up to the competition?


    i think you misunderstood what i said about the work-outs

    have you ever watched the draft specials on raptorsTV? they have the players run a series of drills and light 2 on 2 work-outs. you're not going to determine how good of a basketball player they are, just how quickly they can learn and how acceptable they are to coaching.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    lets face it guys he is gone!

    let embry take over as GM full tiime, let jay triano go! and make alex head coach, get oakley back in here and ewing. I can live with embry and alex.

  3. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    You scout prospects you feel could be in play all year. You bring them in for workouts when the season is over to answer questions oustanding and to get a closer look. It's the "test drive".

    I don't like your analogy because how good John Wall is is irrelevant to how good Eric Bledsoe is. I would hope that for a manager or scout's sake that they got to that point while seeing hundreds of prospects and current pros and so they have all the comparisons they need already filed away inside thier brain. Comparing one lesser gamble that's out of play against a gamble that is in play serves little point in my opinion.

  4. #24
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    you might not like it, but it applies. comparable are a scouts bread and butter. if john wall is the top prospect/most nba ready player in college basketball, he'll be a measuring stick for other college basketball point guards that year.

    we don't agree on the work-outs. i think it's more for personality/ability to take instruction/coach-ability than it is to see their skills in small drills and work-outs. fair's fair.
    Last edited by funkie; Wed Apr 20th, 2011 at 06:26 PM.

  5. #25
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    It makes sense to me. The fact that lock out might take almost a year, why do we want to pay another GM free money to just hang out ?

    Let Embry handle the trade while you Kick BC out and save a few bucks.

  6. #26
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    Whenever I think of Wayne Embry, I think of the guy that traded Ron Harper, who was on the verge of stardom before wrecking his knee, for Danny Ferry, a move that ended up dooming the franchise to mediocrity. He's certainly done some good things, like drafting Mark Price and John Williams and other moves. But he royally screwed up there.
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  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    I like BC I wanna see him get a chance to rebuild this team, he has shown that he is good at drafting, and that he is capable of making the blockbuster trade. I like his aggressiveness and his record speaks for itself, even after the bad years with TO. I think that we need an upgrade at coach though, even PJ carlesimo, someone who is able to get the players to buy in defensively which I think Triano has been unable to do, would be better.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I like BC I wanna see him get a chance to rebuild this team, he has shown that he is good at drafting, and that he is capable of making the blockbuster trade. I like his aggressiveness and his record speaks for itself, even after the bad years with TO. I think that we need an upgrade at coach though, even PJ carlesimo, someone who is able to get the players to buy in defensively which I think Triano has been unable to do, would be better.
    Well if he is following the OKC blueprint, PJ should be named the head coach now. lol

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Re the Hoffa draft I remember that Jack McCloskey was the consultant on the team prior to the Babcock hiring and apparently had much influence on the pick.

    Re BC, I dont understand why they are letting him wither in the wind if its already decided...doesnt make sense with the season over and just a couple of mos. to go. Embry or Eversley etc can take care of matters and this spectacle can stop. Its doing nothing for the org. Looks like a bit of a power struggle happening.

    Edit: a little trip down memory lane...a baaad one...

    http://theflagrancy.typepad.com/the_...aptor__15.html
    Last edited by Bendit; Wed Apr 20th, 2011 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    lets face it guys he is gone!

    let embry take over as GM full tiime, let jay triano go! and make alex head coach, get oakley back in here and ewing. I can live with embry and alex.
    Why I don't understand? Everybody knew that this year was gonna suck, that we had a young inexperienced team. It doesn't make sense to fire Colangelo after he's already delivered 2 gems in Derozan and Davis. This guy is known for drafting solid players, to not let him run ship while going into the draft would be absolutely mind boggling. Who are we bringing in to replace him again? What experience do they have drafting? You do realize Derozan and Davis have gotten way better under Triano, what more did you expect? Raptors fans just need to sit back, and realize that its not all about homeruns in short intervals.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie HuskyRaptor's Avatar
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    if they bomb the pick this year we still have next years draft which is stacked

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Rookie HuskyRaptor's Avatar
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    more colangelo hate from yahoo

    The move could possibly go down because while Colangelo does have his supporters in the Toronto front office, keeping on a high-priced GM with a dubious record in Toronto (and, at this point, we wouldn't be wrong in picking apart his time in Phoenix) through the summer, fall, and possibly winter months when teams aren't allowed to even speak to their players (much less sign, trade or negotiate with new ones) doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
    And because Embry is already on the Raptor payroll, why not hand him the keys to a car that has a boot on all four wheels?
    I'm clearly on the side that wonders just why anyone would want to give Colangelo a third (or possibly fourth, depending on what you think of the Hedo Turkoglu(notes) signing and eventual trading) chance to run this team. He hasn't exactly salted the soil in Toronto, but he hasn't done much else.

  13. #33
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    Quote HuskyRaptor wrote: View Post
    more colangelo hate from yahoo
    That Hedo trade was awesome at the time! I don't get why he catches so much flack for that? Hedo was the best free agent that summer, and when he turned down Portland for Toronto I was stoked, finally we lured a pretty big FA. It didnt' pan out because Turk was just a party animal, and lazy; but nevertheless was a good signing at the time. I can't believe how arrogant the brass are in Toronto if this is actually true. They will never succeed while operating with such a short leash.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    I never liked the Hedo signing from the jump. I was terrified of what our D would look like. And it ended up being far worse than I could imagine.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Embry's A stop gap until they find BC's replacement.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    Why I don't understand? Everybody knew that this year was gonna suck, that we had a young inexperienced team. It doesn't make sense to fire Colangelo after he's already delivered 2 gems in Derozan and Davis. This guy is known for drafting solid players, to not let him run ship while going into the draft would be absolutely mind boggling. Who are we bringing in to replace him again? What experience do they have drafting? You do realize Derozan and Davis have gotten way better under Triano, what more did you expect? Raptors fans just need to sit back, and realize that its not all about homeruns in short intervals.
    Hey man don't get me wrong I want BC but they wouldnt be putting out these statements like they have a backup plan if BC was staying. Embry has history in this league and am sure is very respected if he was our gm I be dissappointed. I want that old school mentality around our team. We would have 2 hall of famers at gm and coach if we went with embry and Alex in fact I would like embry, Larry brown, and Alex but that
    Maybe too much to ask for.

    As for triano you do know Alex run player development right

  17. #37
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    Quote Nick wrote: View Post
    That Hedo trade was awesome at the time! I don't get why he catches so much flack for that? Hedo was the best free agent that summer, and when he turned down Portland for Toronto I was stoked, finally we lured a pretty big FA. It didnt' pan out because Turk was just a party animal, and lazy; but nevertheless was a good signing at the time. I can't believe how arrogant the brass are in Toronto if this is actually true. They will never succeed while operating with such a short leash.
    That was a terrible signing at the time. You signed a guy who needed the ball in his hands that had one good playoff run (Hello Jalen Rose!) and only came here for the money with a team that had a superstar that was a ball stopper (Bosh) and a point guard that needed the ball in his hands to be effective. The GM took ZERO into account on how that mix would work and only concentrated on collecting assets.

    I still haven't really heard a convincing BASKETBALL arguement on keeping him. The caveat seems to be that 'he the one who screwed it up, so he should be able to fix it', because if a plumber went into a house and flooded the place and destroyed all the pipes, you would continue to give him more money because he deserved the chance to make it up.

  18. #38
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Random fact of the day: 74, that's Wayne Embry's age.


    Quote HuskyRaptor wrote: View Post
    if they bomb the pick this year we still have next years draft which is stacked
    I don't agree with that mentality. I personally don't want to see another season discarded. This last one was necessary to clear cap and regroup after losing the player the team was built around. Now is the time to most forward responsibly. I don't want to see them stalled for an entire season. They need to get this draft pick right because regardless of what some people are saying around here, there are some damn good prospects still in this draft and if they're picking 3rd or 4th there is still no excuse for them coming away with a dud.

    Not only that but I don't think they're going to be this bad next season. They were banged up all year, the offense was revamped, there were a bunch of young guys asked to play big roles and they lacked identity. If this core comes to town intact when there is a camp and they're healthy they might be in the back end of the lottery. I say this because I predict both Ed Davis and DeMar DeRozan will be a lot better. JJ and Bayless will improve. Amir will improve. You have some nice core pieces all on the rise that will carry this team to a point where they're not as pathetic even if no changes are made. Bargnani is still going to get his 20PPG if he's around for that matter and give them a boost some nights even if that's all he can do consistently. This is there shot at the high lotto. They need to milk it for all it's worth.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    An unnamed team official is just about as reliable as the original report:

    The Raptors continue to attract the attention of the NBA and speculation about the future abounds.

    On Thursday, team sources quickly refuted an online report that said the organization is ready to pass on the general manager’s duties to consultant Wayne Embry if the decision is made not to renew the contract of president and general manager Bryan Colangelo.

    “People just try to find the logical speculation,” one team official said.

    Colangelo’s contract expires June 30 and there has been no indication from Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment whether he’ll be retained or not. The Star’s Dave Feschuk has reported that Glen Silvestri, a representative of the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan — 66 per cent owners of MLSE — is holding up the Colangelo decision, even as the pension fund seeks to sell off its interest in the organization.

    Any move to replace Colangelo with Embry wouldn’t be without precedent, which has fuelled the speculation.

    In 2006, MLSE fired then-GM Rob Babcock and put Embry in as the interim general manager, starting a chain reaction that led to the hiring of Colangelo.
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...cing-colangelo

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