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    Default Raptors Next GM

    Though I'm not in favor of this, but given the dysfunctional state at the ownership level of MLSE, I'm predicting that Bryan Colangelo doesn't get a new contract by the deadline. But instead of going to New York as rumors have it, he'll end up as the next GM of the Orlando Magic.

    Once the Magic lose to the Hawks, ownership there is going to clean house and fire both Otis Smith and Stan Van Gundy. They'll look to Colangelo's experience to devise a plan to keep Dwight Howard around. One of his first moves will be to get Bargnani to Orlando and create one of the NBA's most potent front courts.

    And the next GM of our Toronto Raptors? Glen Grunwald (because he'll be gone in the coming purge of the Knicks' front office.)

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Tank's Avatar
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    BC in Orlando...hmm....Colangelo and Turkoglu reunited! lol Let's hope he doesn't trade him back to Toronto for Barbosa haha.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Big fan of Glen Grunwald. I'd be open to it.
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    i want a gm that will trade bargs asap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    Last edited by Tim W.; Wed Apr 27th, 2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Made it easier to read.
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    Thanks, Tim. You saved me some time.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    *Golf/Wiser's clap* You summed everything up to perfection.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    i applaud you for that.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    The end of Grunwalds tenure was truly forgettable (murray and hakeem) but let's not go overboard with the Babcock comparisons. The trades for Oakley and Davis were GREAT moves they gave our team a tons of grit, toughness, and defense which all Raptors fans are clamoring for now.... and Defense wins championships....I'd take an aging Oakley and Davis PF combo any day nobody would F@%k with them. You need those guys who just wanna play D and don't care about O. He saw vince was a star and was ready to win now. You can't blast GMs for missing on prospects because the draft is truly unpredictable which is why players like Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, and Rashard Lewis were drafted in the second round. Grunwald simply knew that the raptors needed grit to win and traded uncertain commodities for proven players and it created a winner.

    Babcock traded away our best player for literally nothing... the Williams sisters were bench players on a mediocre team, a injured ZO who didn't want to come here and 2 1st rounders...one traded to NY one used on Joey Graham and signed key players like Jerome Moiso and Milt Palacio. Not to mention he reached for a prospect (Araujo) that was projected to go 18-28th in the drafted with the 7th (and if it wasn't his pick he should've been a good Gm and stood up for himself telling whoever that this guy was just a big body)

    The Babcock era basically turned the raptors back into a fresh expansion team, who can say one good thing about his era? The Jalen Rose trade was a band-aid for a bullet wound and don't give me the "oh that vince move freed up future cap space" thats bulls**t every true Raptors fan knows Babcock thought he was getting a good deal and playing time from Alonzo.


    sorry lol the babcock era hits a chord with me

    An interesting candidate would be out current Raptors senior advisor Wayne Embry. Although he is really old, he has been around the league for forever. He can evaluate talent well and is one of the most respected figures within the NBA. Hall of famer and two time NBA executive of the year and he is already with the organization. He has already proven that he has some basketball sense because in his brief one month tenure as the Raptors GM he tried to undo everything that Babcock did...Williams and Rose were traded right away.
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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    An interesting candidate would be out current Raptors senior advisor Wayne Embry. Although he is really old, he has been around the league for forever. He can evaluate talent well and is one of the most respected figures within the NBA. Hall of famer and two time NBA executive of the year and he is already with the organization. He has already proven that he has some basketball sense because in his brief one month tenure as the Raptors GM he tried to undo everything that Babcock did...Williams and Rose were traded right away.
    Only he has stated he doesn't want to deal with the day-to-day for any length of time. He is a stopgap at best, not a solution.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Only he has stated he doesn't want to deal with the day-to-day for any length of time. He is a stopgap at best, not a solution.
    Where was this stated?
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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    Where was this stated?
    Ya, I recall him saying that. The guy IS something like 76 years old. I can't blame him one bit.
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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    Where was this stated?
    Sorry man would have to go back 5yrs.

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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    The end of Grunwalds tenure was truly forgettable (murray and hakeem) but let's not go overboard with the Babcock comparisons. The trades for Oakley and Davis were GREAT moves they gave our team a tons of grit, toughness, and defense which all Raptors fans are clamoring for now.... and Defense wins championships....I'd take an aging Oakley and Davis PF combo any day nobody would F@%k with them. You need those guys who just wanna play D and don't care about O. He saw vince was a star and was ready to win now. You can't blast GMs for missing on prospects because the draft is truly unpredictable which is why players like Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, and Rashard Lewis were drafted in the second round. Grunwald simply knew that the raptors needed grit to win and traded uncertain commodities for proven players and it created a winner.

    Babcock traded away our best player for literally nothing... the Williams sisters were bench players on a mediocre team, a injured ZO who didn't want to come here and 2 1st rounders...one traded to NY one used on Joey Graham and signed key players like Jerome Moiso and Milt Palacio. Not to mention he reached for a prospect (Araujo) that was projected to go 18-28th in the drafted with the 7th (and if it wasn't his pick he should've been a good Gm and stood up for himself telling whoever that this guy was just a big body)

    The Babcock era basically turned the raptors back into a fresh expansion team, who can say one good thing about his era? The Jalen Rose trade was a band-aid for a bullet wound and don't give me the "oh that vince move freed up future cap space" thats bulls**t every true Raptors fan knows Babcock thought he was getting a good deal and playing time from Alonzo.


    sorry lol the babcock era hits a chord with me

    An interesting candidate would be out current Raptors senior advisor Wayne Embry. Although he is really old, he has been around the league for forever. He can evaluate talent well and is one of the most respected figures within the NBA. Hall of famer and two time NBA executive of the year and he is already with the organization. He has already proven that he has some basketball sense because in his brief one month tenure as the Raptors GM he tried to undo everything that Babcock did...Williams and Rose were traded right away.
    I wasn't comparing Grunwald and Babcock. I simply said that Grunwald was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Babcock's tenure. And what Grunwald did was completely limit the success of the franchise by giving up draft picks and young assets for aging veterans with only a few good years left. I have no problem with giving the team toughness and focusing on defense, by making the moves Grunwald did, he gave the team a window of just a few years. Even without Vince's injury, everyone outside of Vince was old. This is what Cleveland tried to do with LeBron and while they had great immediate success, they had to keep restocking because it wasn't sustainable.

    On the other hand, Oklahoma surrounded Kevin Durant with players who would develop WITH him and now they have a window of 10-15 years. When they were ready to take the next step THEN they brought in a veteran to help.

    I would have no problem with them bringing in one veteran to lead the team, but Grunwald took the fast route to success. While the team did get to the second round, there was absolutely no way they could build on that or sustain that success with how the team was built. I blame Grunwald completely for that.
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    Raptors Republic Starter Hassan's Avatar
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    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to

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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to
    On about $90M in salary per season. He has also screwed the franchise for the next 3 years with Turk and Arenas. I would not be a proponent of Otis Smith.

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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to
    Otis Smith's team is speaking for itself right now, and it ain't saying much. As for Dumars, he's made some pretty questionable moves as of late, so I would prefer not to have him running this team.

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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to
    Otis Smith gutted the team defensively to get offense and has been paying for it ever since. His team has something like the fourth highest payroll in international professional sports yet won only 52 games and might lose in the first round. He refused to re-sign Turkoglu for what he was demanding, yet ended up trading valuable assets for him and his contract a year and a half later. He re-signed the one dimensional J.J. Reddick to an enormous contract, yet let the gritty Matt Barnes go, where he eventually signed with the Lakers.

    Among some of his other moves Dumars made, he passed on Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade for Darko Milicic. Then he traded the best leader and player the team has had since Isiah Thomas and himself for Iverson, who made his previous two teams better just by leaving them. And then he signed Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, two players who don't play a lick of defense between them, to massive contracts in order to apparently launch them back to respectability, but instead, predictably, made them a perennial lottery team.

    In a word, no.
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    His name fails me, but the guy that got fired by the blazers. Him.
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