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Thread: Raptors Next GM

  1. #1
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    Default Raptors Next GM

    Though I'm not in favor of this, but given the dysfunctional state at the ownership level of MLSE, I'm predicting that Bryan Colangelo doesn't get a new contract by the deadline. But instead of going to New York as rumors have it, he'll end up as the next GM of the Orlando Magic.

    Once the Magic lose to the Hawks, ownership there is going to clean house and fire both Otis Smith and Stan Van Gundy. They'll look to Colangelo's experience to devise a plan to keep Dwight Howard around. One of his first moves will be to get Bargnani to Orlando and create one of the NBA's most potent front courts.

    And the next GM of our Toronto Raptors? Glen Grunwald (because he'll be gone in the coming purge of the Knicks' front office.)

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Rookie Tank's Avatar
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    BC in Orlando...hmm....Colangelo and Turkoglu reunited! lol Let's hope he doesn't trade him back to Toronto for Barbosa haha.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Big fan of Glen Grunwald. I'd be open to it.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    i want a gm that will trade bargs asap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    Last edited by Tim W.; Wed Apr 27th, 2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Made it easier to read.
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    Thanks, Tim. You saved me some time.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Starter Hassan's Avatar
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    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to
    On about $90M in salary per season. He has also screwed the franchise for the next 3 years with Turk and Arenas. I would not be a proponent of Otis Smith.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to
    Otis Smith's team is speaking for itself right now, and it ain't saying much. As for Dumars, he's made some pretty questionable moves as of late, so I would prefer not to have him running this team.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    *Golf/Wiser's clap* You summed everything up to perfection.

  11. #11
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    His name fails me, but the guy that got fired by the blazers. Him.
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    His name fails me, but the guy that got fired by the blazers. Him.
    Kevin Pritchard? The guy that drafted Oden and doled out that massive contract to Brandon Roy despite knee problems? The same guy that continually pissed off his bosses? That guy?

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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    we should get otis smith at least he got magic to the finals, or dumars is good to
    Otis Smith gutted the team defensively to get offense and has been paying for it ever since. His team has something like the fourth highest payroll in international professional sports yet won only 52 games and might lose in the first round. He refused to re-sign Turkoglu for what he was demanding, yet ended up trading valuable assets for him and his contract a year and a half later. He re-signed the one dimensional J.J. Reddick to an enormous contract, yet let the gritty Matt Barnes go, where he eventually signed with the Lakers.

    Among some of his other moves Dumars made, he passed on Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade for Darko Milicic. Then he traded the best leader and player the team has had since Isiah Thomas and himself for Iverson, who made his previous two teams better just by leaving them. And then he signed Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, two players who don't play a lick of defense between them, to massive contracts in order to apparently launch them back to respectability, but instead, predictably, made them a perennial lottery team.

    In a word, no.
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Kevin Pritchard? The guy that drafted Oden and doled out that massive contract to Brandon Roy despite knee problems? The same guy that continually pissed off his bosses? That guy?
    And the guy no one has hired since he was fired? Probably for a very good reason?
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  15. #15
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    No problem with Pritchard,

    No - Dumars, ugh. Yeah the reality is there's not that much choice out there. Turnover at GM is limited...The only exception is this really young GM in Denver who made this amazing trade that was probably the best trade of a team's star in a while...Oh yeah, we had him and let him go didn't we? Maybe that was when MLSE should have been having this conversation. Little late now. We let go of a good future GM candidate the same way we let go of our best talent

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Turnover at GM is limited...The only exception is this really young GM in Denver who made this amazing trade that was probably the best trade of a team's star in a while...Oh yeah, we had him and let him go didn't we? Maybe that was when MLSE should have been having this conversation. Little late now. We let go of a good future GM candidate the same way we let go of our best talent
    Gotta take the flip side of that argument.

    Who did this young GM learn from? Who spotted this young GM and gave him the opportunity to learn from one of the best? Didn't the young GM have the unfortunate (or fortunate) pleasure, as did those in Cleveland, of learning what happens when your best player won't sign an extension? Didn't the rest of the league also learn that lesson as was also seen in Utah? Didn't that young GM also have the benefit of their best player making it clear he wanted out?

    In no way is this to discredit this young GM as he certainly earned his stripes very early. However, in the interest of fairness both sides of the argument are presented.

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    Why aren't we using his name? haha We're talking about Masai Ujiri right? The one that learned everything he knows from BC? Right.
    Great points Matt.
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    Since I can't see any established, successful GMs moving to Toronto right now, the only GM with a decent track record who is currently psuedo-unemployed is Mark Warkentien. There is Pritchard but he's been mentioned ad nauseum and the fact no one has touched him after Portland isn't a good sign.

    Otherwise, you are digging into the assistant GM pool for guys like Dennis Lindsey (Spurs), Rob Hennigan (OKC) and David Twardzik (Orlando). I'm sure there are other names out there.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    i applaud you for that.
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  20. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Here's the problem with the comments I've seen so far in this thread.
    (a) No one wants a rookie GM, which I'm fine with except that --
    (b) Everyone digs up all the negatives of those available. Those who are available, are available because they screwed up at some point.

    Otis Smith, Joe Dumars, Kevin Pritchard are all *EXCELLENT* choices. Each one of these guys looked like geniuses at some point in their career, and anyone looking for a GM would have wanted these guys 2 years prior to when things began to unravel.
    Last edited by ebrian; Thu Apr 28th, 2011 at 10:20 AM.
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