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Thread: Raptors Next GM

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    Kevin Pritchard? The guy that drafted Oden and doled out that massive contract to Brandon Roy despite knee problems? The same guy that continually pissed off his bosses? That guy?
    That's the one!
    @jerboat

  2. #22
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think after the trades that Otis Smith did he really should be fired. He sacrificed defense for scoring and they've been paying for it ever since. Of course, I don't understand why, after making such a bad mistake like that, they worsen the mistake by trading for someone who is a scorer and horrible defender. That doesn't really make any sense.

    As for Grunwald, he's certainly beloved by Raptor fans, but he made some incredibly short-sighted moves and was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Rob Babcock's tenure.

    Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he's got nothing on Grunwald, who
    - traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis)
    - traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
    - traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team's other offensively challenged PFs.
    - traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn't even have one good year left. He wasn't done, though.
    - traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

    Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn't get much for any of them.

    The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn't have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn't been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.
    The end of Grunwalds tenure was truly forgettable (murray and hakeem) but let's not go overboard with the Babcock comparisons. The trades for Oakley and Davis were GREAT moves they gave our team a tons of grit, toughness, and defense which all Raptors fans are clamoring for now.... and Defense wins championships....I'd take an aging Oakley and Davis PF combo any day nobody would F@%k with them. You need those guys who just wanna play D and don't care about O. He saw vince was a star and was ready to win now. You can't blast GMs for missing on prospects because the draft is truly unpredictable which is why players like Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, and Rashard Lewis were drafted in the second round. Grunwald simply knew that the raptors needed grit to win and traded uncertain commodities for proven players and it created a winner.

    Babcock traded away our best player for literally nothing... the Williams sisters were bench players on a mediocre team, a injured ZO who didn't want to come here and 2 1st rounders...one traded to NY one used on Joey Graham and signed key players like Jerome Moiso and Milt Palacio. Not to mention he reached for a prospect (Araujo) that was projected to go 18-28th in the drafted with the 7th (and if it wasn't his pick he should've been a good Gm and stood up for himself telling whoever that this guy was just a big body)

    The Babcock era basically turned the raptors back into a fresh expansion team, who can say one good thing about his era? The Jalen Rose trade was a band-aid for a bullet wound and don't give me the "oh that vince move freed up future cap space" thats bulls**t every true Raptors fan knows Babcock thought he was getting a good deal and playing time from Alonzo.


    sorry lol the babcock era hits a chord with me

    An interesting candidate would be out current Raptors senior advisor Wayne Embry. Although he is really old, he has been around the league for forever. He can evaluate talent well and is one of the most respected figures within the NBA. Hall of famer and two time NBA executive of the year and he is already with the organization. He has already proven that he has some basketball sense because in his brief one month tenure as the Raptors GM he tried to undo everything that Babcock did...Williams and Rose were traded right away.
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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    An interesting candidate would be out current Raptors senior advisor Wayne Embry. Although he is really old, he has been around the league for forever. He can evaluate talent well and is one of the most respected figures within the NBA. Hall of famer and two time NBA executive of the year and he is already with the organization. He has already proven that he has some basketball sense because in his brief one month tenure as the Raptors GM he tried to undo everything that Babcock did...Williams and Rose were traded right away.
    Only he has stated he doesn't want to deal with the day-to-day for any length of time. He is a stopgap at best, not a solution.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    The lack of info from MLSE is unnerving. What about BC's extension? Who's going to take responsibility for the draft? Just wondering if you've heard anything...
    Stephen Brotherston:
    Brian,

    It is unnerving. It is also normal - I have been through this process many times in my professional career - the only information that gets released will designed to move the sale process along and there is a good chance that it isn't even true.

    All we can do is wait. It appears that MLSE is the group that is holding up Colangelo's extension - but they aren't making any decisions so that leaves Colangelo to do the draft - All we can hope for is that he stays professional in his approach while he quietly warms up his resume.

    If we are lucky - MLSE will get an acceptable bid in the first round due in late May and the new owner re-signs (or gives his okay) Colangelo immediately.

    This isn't a good way to to handle this important decision - but perhaps there isn't a good way from MLSE's perspective.

    On hold for now.........

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  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    "They'll look to Colangelo's experience to devise a plan to keep Dwight Howard around"

    I doubt they'll be looking to Colangelo after he gave up CB4 for nothing.

  6. #26
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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    The end of Grunwalds tenure was truly forgettable (murray and hakeem) but let's not go overboard with the Babcock comparisons. The trades for Oakley and Davis were GREAT moves they gave our team a tons of grit, toughness, and defense which all Raptors fans are clamoring for now.... and Defense wins championships....I'd take an aging Oakley and Davis PF combo any day nobody would F@%k with them. You need those guys who just wanna play D and don't care about O. He saw vince was a star and was ready to win now. You can't blast GMs for missing on prospects because the draft is truly unpredictable which is why players like Monta Ellis, Gilbert Arenas, and Rashard Lewis were drafted in the second round. Grunwald simply knew that the raptors needed grit to win and traded uncertain commodities for proven players and it created a winner.

    Babcock traded away our best player for literally nothing... the Williams sisters were bench players on a mediocre team, a injured ZO who didn't want to come here and 2 1st rounders...one traded to NY one used on Joey Graham and signed key players like Jerome Moiso and Milt Palacio. Not to mention he reached for a prospect (Araujo) that was projected to go 18-28th in the drafted with the 7th (and if it wasn't his pick he should've been a good Gm and stood up for himself telling whoever that this guy was just a big body)

    The Babcock era basically turned the raptors back into a fresh expansion team, who can say one good thing about his era? The Jalen Rose trade was a band-aid for a bullet wound and don't give me the "oh that vince move freed up future cap space" thats bulls**t every true Raptors fan knows Babcock thought he was getting a good deal and playing time from Alonzo.


    sorry lol the babcock era hits a chord with me

    An interesting candidate would be out current Raptors senior advisor Wayne Embry. Although he is really old, he has been around the league for forever. He can evaluate talent well and is one of the most respected figures within the NBA. Hall of famer and two time NBA executive of the year and he is already with the organization. He has already proven that he has some basketball sense because in his brief one month tenure as the Raptors GM he tried to undo everything that Babcock did...Williams and Rose were traded right away.
    I wasn't comparing Grunwald and Babcock. I simply said that Grunwald was as responsible as anyone for the mess that became Babcock's tenure. And what Grunwald did was completely limit the success of the franchise by giving up draft picks and young assets for aging veterans with only a few good years left. I have no problem with giving the team toughness and focusing on defense, by making the moves Grunwald did, he gave the team a window of just a few years. Even without Vince's injury, everyone outside of Vince was old. This is what Cleveland tried to do with LeBron and while they had great immediate success, they had to keep restocking because it wasn't sustainable.

    On the other hand, Oklahoma surrounded Kevin Durant with players who would develop WITH him and now they have a window of 10-15 years. When they were ready to take the next step THEN they brought in a veteran to help.

    I would have no problem with them bringing in one veteran to lead the team, but Grunwald took the fast route to success. While the team did get to the second round, there was absolutely no way they could build on that or sustain that success with how the team was built. I blame Grunwald completely for that.
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  7. #27
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    vote for me, i'll be the GM!

  8. #28
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Why aren't we using his name? haha We're talking about Masai Ujiri right? The one that learned everything he knows from BC? Right.
    Great points Matt.
    Actually, BC taught every GM in the league how NOT to get value for a superstar who won't commit. Yep, the Raps are the cautionary tale, sadly. Masai "learned" well from the "master". Nice spin, though. lol.

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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    Only he has stated he doesn't want to deal with the day-to-day for any length of time. He is a stopgap at best, not a solution.
    Where was this stated?
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  10. #30
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  11. #31
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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    Where was this stated?
    Ya, I recall him saying that. The guy IS something like 76 years old. I can't blame him one bit.
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Here's the problem with the comments I've seen so far in this thread.
    (a) No one wants a rookie GM, which I'm fine with except that --
    (b) Everyone digs up all the negatives of those available. Those who are available, are available because they screwed up at some point.

    Otis Smith, Joe Dumars, Kevin Pritchard are all *EXCELLENT* choices. Each one of these guys looked like geniuses at some point in their career, and anyone looking for a GM would have wanted these guys 2 years prior to when things began to unravel.
    Point of correction, the first two are not excellent choices imo. Pritchard, Kerr, Warkentien, some assistant GM from San Antonio Spurs, Oklahoma City Thunder or Portland Trailblazers (small market (like us) winning teams) are excellent choices imo.

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    Quote Pureraptors wrote: View Post
    Where was this stated?
    Sorry man would have to go back 5yrs.

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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    Point of correction, the first two are not excellent choices imo. Pritchard, Kerr, Warkentien, some assistant GM from San Antonio Spurs, Oklahoma City Thunder or Portland Trailblazers (small market (like us) winning teams) are excellent choices imo.
    Toronto is not a small market. It is the 4th largest market in North America. If you use the whole country as Raptors-ville it is the largest market.

    I"m not trying to be a d!ck it is this is something that really irks me. Toronto might suffer from bias from a large percentage of US players, however, offer them money with a chance to win and that becomes a non-issue, in my opinion.

    .

  15. #35
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    "They'll look to Colangelo's experience to devise a plan to keep Dwight Howard around"

    I doubt they'll be looking to Colangelo after he gave up CB4 for nothing.
    no, you see vince carter was given up for nothing...

    cb4 wasn't given up, he was at the end of his contract and signed somewhere else.
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    I would take Keith Pritchard in a heart beat, its not his fault that Oden got injured that could happen to any GM, and I think the brandon roy pick and contract were the right thing to do for your franchise player.

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    Quote smushmush wrote: View Post
    Point of correction, the first two are not excellent choices imo. Pritchard, Kerr, Warkentien, some assistant GM from San Antonio Spurs, Oklahoma City Thunder or Portland Trailblazers (small market (like us) winning teams) are excellent choices imo.
    Since Matt52 already took care of the other issue, one thing I have a problem with is people assuming that just because a guy worked for the Spurs, Thunder or Blazers means he would make a good choice for GM, as they are simply factories that manufacture good GMs and that it takes more than simply being around those that are good. Let's not forget that Danny Ferry was in the Spurs system and I thought he did a terrible job. For all we know, the next best GM might be a guy sitting at his computer typing in someplace like Vancouver who is just waiting for a phonecall from one of the teams. But the phone doesn't ring. And he just sits there. Waiting....
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    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    I would take Keith Pritchard in a heart beat, its not his fault that Oden got injured that could happen to any GM, and I think the brandon roy pick and contract were the right thing to do for your franchise player.
    While it certainly wasn't Pritchard's fault, there was certainly a question of whether Oden would struggle constantly with injuries throughout his career. And he passed on Kevin Durant, who many felt was going to be the better player. But there are a lot more issues with Pritchard that have kept other teams from hiring him. A lot of stuff that happened behind the scenes that would make me think twice about hiring the guy.
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    I want Kevin Pritchard as GM. Shouldn't knock on the Oden thing, a lot of people thought the same way as he did. I just seem to have a lot memories of him making everyone look stupid on draft day. Considering all the injuries Blazers had over the years they still always had quality teams.
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    does anyone remember when pritchard threatened to sue anyone who signed darius miles? he's a winner.

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