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Thread: Chad Ford Mock Draft 1.0: Raptors select Enes Kanter (Enes v Jonas starts post #139)

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I was and still am high on Valanciunas. I do think he has a higher upside than Kanter but I also think he is a much larger gamble.

    The Raptors cannot afford a decent player to not come from this pick. At number 2 or 3 I would not be opposed to Kanter in the least.

    Also, shot blockers make highlights and are definitely exciting, however, they do not necessarily make good defenders. Plus Kanter, outside of wingspan, currently has the body and polish we hope Valanciunas eventually develops.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I was and still am high on Valanciunas. I do think he has a higher upside than Kanter but I also think he is a much larger gamble.

    The Raptors cannot afford a decent player to not come from this pick. At number 2 or 3 I would not be opposed to Kanter in the least.

    Also, shot blockers make highlights and are definitely exciting, however, they do not necessarily make good defenders. Plus Kanter, outside of wingspan, currently has the body and polish we hope Valanciunas eventually develops.
    I think Valanciunas becomes less of a gamble when you realize his skill set could easily translate into a succesful nba career: good help defense, pick and roll is his bread and butter, good at cleaning up messy plays, good motor, quick off his feet. That being said I think Kanter compliments Ed Davis much better, Valanciunas WILL probably develop into the better player though.

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    Shot blocking alone in a vacuum is overrated. Does the blocker/team get possession, does he change opponents' shots by being a presence in the paint or is he just getting the blocks off his man-to-man defense. I think Kanter is a much more rounded player and I hear has the intangibles of aggressiveness & leadership...items I dont know about Jonas but something the Raps need desperately.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie jk1m's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I am really high on Jonas Valancuinas. I have always favored players that had attributes that you couldn't teach. Jonas is prime example of that. You can't teach length and Jonas has a lot of it. 6'11" with out shoes will most like measure around 7'1" in shoes and has a huge wingspan projected to be 7'6" and his only 19 men usually stop growing when their 21.

    I know a lot of you are on the Enes Kanter bandwagon but, when I look at him all I see is offense. I think we already have enough of that. We really need to start changing the culture in Toronto. That start with the players we draft. I don't have problem with drafting a player with offensive potential but, they have to have defensive potential too. I just don't see that with Kanter.

    With Jonas Valanciunas I see both! I see him possibly being a cross between Pau Gasol and Andris Biedrins at his best. I'm going to just stick with the defense though. Andrew Bogut, Serge Ibaka, Dwight Howard, JaVale McGee and Darko were all top 5 in blocked shots. What do they all have in common? They all have a wingspan higher than 7'2". I feel that Jonas has the potential to be top 5 in blocks but, still get you buckets.



    The most impressive part of the video is of him running up the court at the 6:27 mark.

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    If anyone thinks Amir is foul prone, let me introduce you to Jonas Valancuinas. He makes Amir look like Wilt Chamberlain (who never fouled out of a game). Now, I certainly like his strengths, and wouldn't be upset if the Raptors drafted him, but I see far, far more in Kanter. Kanter isn't the shotblocker that Valancuinas is, but the Raptors already have Davis on the team, so what they need more is a great positional defender. Kanter's offense gets top billing, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with his defense, from what I've seen and read. There seems to be this belief that a big man has to be a shotblocker to be a good defender and that's simply not true. Think Anderson Varejao. What matters most is effort and IQ, and Kanter has both of those.
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    He also doesn't rebound that well for someone with that great a wingspan. Not saying he's a bad rebounder, but he's not great for his size. I see him topping out at 7/8 rebounds per game.

    The largest portion of his offense (27%) comes from this area according to Synergy Sports Technology, a testament to his length, quickness, timing, hands, activity level and instincts. He pulls down over five offensive rebounds for every 40 minutes he's on the floor, and watching him play, it's not difficult to tell why.

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1MFmitIKZ
    http://www.draftexpress.com

    sounds like a pretty good rebounder to be.

    I wasn't stating that his length and shot blocking was his only tool as a defender. His real mobile for a 7 footer and has way better lateral quickness than Kanter and his a great rebounder. I think at worse he could be a Joackim Noah(with a better shot) and a player like that can benefit the raptors way more than another score-first player.
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default 2008 U-16 Euro Champship: Kanter

    A cadet topping the rebounding ranking in a European junior championship isn't the most common thing seen in basketball. Actually, I'm not even sure it has ever happened. Enes Kanter did it.

    Showing comparable strength to a junior -if not superior- in his 6-9 body, Kanter is not about jumping out of the gym. The kid shows decent athleticism, but his leaping ability is not top notch. On the contrary, he relies on his superb positioning, willingness to pursue the ball on both ends of the court, and excellent timing. Kanter uses both arms, and isn't scared to leave the ground even in horizontal moves (many players fear for their ankles in these situations), so his rebounding range is pretty good. He also enjoys terrific hands to grab the ball, and the poise to know when to make every effort. The only downside we see in his rebounding display is the fact that he's not much about boxing out opponents, as much as he is about going out and grabbing the rebound, which isn't necessarily the best option team-wise.

    Averaging 14.6 captures per game, Kanter surpassed the 20-rebound mark on three separate occasions, and earned himself a place on the all-tournament team, despite the fact that Turkey finished ninth in the championship.

    Moving to his offensive game, he's mostly an off-the-ball guy. He produces near the basket out of dishes from his teammates, showing great poise to finish under the rim against tall opponents, and of course, off offensive rebounds. He's also rather active setting picks, but rarely produces after rolling inside (a move he doesn't execute with enough faith). But you can also see him playing in the low post, being aggressive and physical, often pounding his opponent with his left shoulder to look for a right-handed hook or a pivot move to get by his match-up. In very rare occasions you will witness Kanter putting the ball on the floor at this stage; anyway, he usually uses his right hand, but shows average results. He can also attempt a jump-shot with decent range (he even connected on a three-pointer during the championship) but still with mixed results. Defensively, he's not a great intimidator, but shows decent lateral mobility and positioning to stay between the ball and the basket.

    We still don't see out-of-this-world potential in Kanter, but given his youth, it's better to be cautious about his future. For the moment, the guy looks like the early favorite to clinch MVP honors in the upcoming U-16 European Championship (as long as Turkey stays competitive). By the way, regarding the real birthdate of Kanter-- a subject of controversy considering that he looks mature way beyond his age-- someone pointed to me his place of birth: it has to be pretty difficult to play with your birthdate in Zurich, Switzerland.

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...#ixzz1MFzmQXmX
    http://www.draftexpress.com
    I realize this is 3 years old now but I hope it shows a point - which is:

    Kanter has dominated where ever and when ever he played. He was a top player in the U-18's at 16 years of age - 14.6 rebs a game versus guys 2 years older? Seriously? And 6'9" at the time.

    No, this is not against NBA competition but no kid 16,17, or 18 is playing against NBA competition. Every draft prospects stats are compared against his peers at the level they play.

    With Davis and Amir capable of in the role of leaping shot blockers and athletic big men, in my opinion, the Raptors could use a hard-nosed positional defender who, at 19 next week, is already physically ready for the NBA.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    He also doesn't rebound that well for someone with that great a wingspan. Not saying he's a bad rebounder, but he's not great for his size. I see him topping out at 7/8 rebounds per game.

    The largest portion of his offense (27%) comes from this area according to Synergy Sports Technology, a testament to his length, quickness, timing, hands, activity level and instincts. He pulls down over five offensive rebounds for every 40 minutes he's on the floor, and watching him play, it's not difficult to tell why.

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1MFmitIKZ
    http://www.draftexpress.com

    sounds like a pretty good rebounder to be.

    I wasn't stating that his length and shot blocking was his only tool as a defender. His real mobile for a 7 footer and has way better lateral quickness than Kanter and his a great rebounder. I think at worse he could be a Joackim Noah(with a better shot) and a player like that can benefit the raptors way more than another score-first player.
    I see a couple of problems with Valanciunas on the Raptors. The first is that he duplicates what the Raptors already have in Amir and Davis. All are slight big men who are active and are better offensive rebounders than defensive rebounders (especially Amir). None are much of a threat to score much and none are great post defenders.

    And most likely Bargnani is gone this summer, so about the only score first player on the roster is DeRozan. Kanter is a better defensive rebounder than Valanciunas, a better post defender and a much better compliment to Davis and Amir. Plus, I just think he's going to be a better player. The only thing that Valanciunas is better than Kanter at is shot blocking, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better defender. In fact, I haven't been too impressed with Valanciunas defensive IQ. I don't think it's bad, but for a guy who is supposed to be a great help defender, it should be better.
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    Read that Draft Express page...Yikes, Valanciunas fouls a lot...wow. In Euroleague...where the game is WAY MORE physical. I'm sure he has potential, but that can't be good. I won't point out that a lot of his "blocks" would be fouls in the NBA either. He has developed fairly quickly so you have to like his upside and potential to improve but the Raps can't wait on another big to develop, we already have Solo...we need a big who is a little closer. If we do it through the draft and our choices are only Valancius or Kanter I guess Kanter is a better choice now.

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    Man that music is ridiculous. To describe it as a soundtrack to the end of the world would understate the epicness it's going for. It's funny to add it a video compilation of a lanky white dude playing hoops.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    "He also doesn't rebound that well for someone with that great a wingspan. Not saying he's a bad rebounder, but he's not great for his size. I see him topping out at 7/8 rebounds per game."

    The largest portion of his offense (27%) comes from this area according to Synergy Sports Technology, a testament to his length, quickness, timing, hands, activity level and instincts. He pulls down over five offensive rebounds for every 40 minutes he's on the floor, and watching him play, it's not difficult to tell why.

    From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...#ixzz1MFmitIKZ
    http://www.draftexpress.com

    sounds like a pretty good rebounder to be.

    I wasn't stating that his length and shot blocking was his only tool as a defender. His real mobile for a 7 footer and has way better lateral quickness than Kanter and his a great rebounder. I think at worse he could be a Joackim Noah(with a better shot) and a player like that can benefit the raptors way more than another score-first player.
    Again, if you look at what I said in the quote (and I added the quotation marks for clarity), I didn't say he'd be a bad rebounder. If you consider the wingspans of some of the top rebounders in the league (Kevin Love 6'11"-ish, Reggie Evans 7'2"-ish), you'd expect Valanciunas with his much superior wingspan to potentially be even better, but as we all know by now, rebounding is part length, part instinct/timing and part effort. He's going to have a much harder time in the NBA.

    That 27% of his offensive game comes from offensive boards is irrelevant to how good he is as a rebounder, and only says where much of his limited scoring (11 fga per 40 minutes) comes from. And his 4.8 offensive rebounds per 40 minutes is not that useful in a vacuum. Do consider that in the same 40 minutes, he would have collected over 8 personal fouls. Watch that be an even bigger problem in the NBA.

    And your projection is a bit ridiculous. At worst he can be a better Noah? Seriously? Even actual scouts would temper their expectations a little. If scouts thought Valanciunas was at worst a rich man's Noah, you'd see him being considered at #1 overall in this draft. Worst case scenario being a rich man's Saer Sene would be far more realistic.

    "[...] is a physical specimen in the truest sense, with the type of attributes that would put him in a rare class in the NBA right off the bat. Standing 7 feet tall, he has terrific size for the center position, with a 7’8.5’’ wingspan that will make him the longest player in the league [...] isn’t particularly bulky at this point in time, but his frame is good enough to lead you to believe that he’ll put on all weight he’ll ever need in his upper and lower body."

    Just wanted to highlight the last part because much of the talk about Valanciunas has been the same way.
    Last edited by Quixotic; Fri May 13th, 2011 at 05:15 PM.

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    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6540086

    Chad ford talking to Enes Kanter
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    For anyone who feels like Kanter did something 'wrong' or 'shameful' to deserve being kicked out of the NCAA, have a listen to John Calipari's summary of the situation, "He accepted money from NO ONE except for his DAD."

    Last edited by Joey; Sat May 14th, 2011 at 06:36 PM.
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    Not that I think Chad Ford is an excellent scout, but as there's so little information about Kanter, it's interesting to hear what people have to say:

    While legitimate questions remain about the loss of two critical years of game development, Kanter possesses virtually all the qualities NBA teams are looking for in bigs, especially for a kid who is one of the youngest players in this year's draft.

    He's big (he measured a shade below 6-foot-11 in shoes with a 7-1 wingspan at the Hoop Summit), has a NBA body, and uses his strength around the basket. He has a relentless motor on the boards and has excellent footwork for an 18-year-old big man. He's also gotten in terrific shape in Chicago and appears much more explosive than we thought last year. At the Hoop Summit, Kanter was nursing a back injury and could barely get off the floor. In workouts here at ATTACK, Kanter showed he had no problem playing over the rim. While he's no Blake Griffin, he's not a stiff either.

    Kanter also showed the ability to step out and hit everything from 18-foot jumpers to NBA 3s. While I don't think his primary role will be to stretch the defense in the NBA, he has the ability.

    [...]

    While I initially believed that Kanter's year off would hurt his draft stock, I'm not longer concerned after talking with a number of NBA execs. Virtually every team I spoke with has him as a top-five prospect on their board. A few told me they believe, had he played at Kentucky this year, he may have been the favorite to go No. 1 overall.

    He still might have a chance to go No. 1 overall if the Washington Wizards get the No. 1 pick. While we currently have them taking Derrick Williams No. 1 in our Mock Draft Lottery, a well-placed source said Kanter would be in the conversation. The Detroit Pistons and the Golden State Warriors also have needs that could place Kanter in the mix. But after Kyrie Irving and Williams are off the table, I'm not sure there's a player with more upside in this Draft.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?...aft&id=6555985
    Last edited by Quixotic; Mon May 16th, 2011 at 06:19 PM.

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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    Not that I think Chad Ford is an excellent scout, but as there's so little information about Kanter, it's interesting to hear what people have to say:
    Interesting read. Ya, he's probably longer and more of an athlete than many though, but he's still European. I mean, what more do you need to know?
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Interesting read. Ya, he's probably longer and more of an athlete than many though, but he's still European. I mean, what more do you need to know?
    Great point Tim. Why should I bother reading about how good he is, and how athletic and 'above the rim' he is, when I already know he's from Turkey. Which is actually half-Europe and half-Asia.
    And, I mean, we all know what they say about Asian Basketball players, right?... "they're not even as good as Europeans." or something like that anyway... DRAFT JIMMER! HE'S MORMOM!


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    I did the espn nba draft lottery thingy and when the raptors win the #1 pick it always shows us choosing D Will. well anyway here is the link: http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2011/mockdraft

    Try for your selves

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    Quote Raptors_ wrote: View Post
    I did the espn nba draft lottery thingy and when the raptors win the #1 pick it always shows us choosing D Will. well anyway here is the link: http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2011/mockdraft

    Try for your selves
    Which wouldn't be a bad thing. I don't think.
    DWill has a chance to be a very solid swingman, and that is a hole we need to fill. Perhaps not as glaring as our need for a Big man, but you take the Best Player available. Some feel that is DWill.

    If he hadn't shown off his new found Jumpshot in the NCAA tournament, then I might be a bit more leary of picking him.

    If we get the #1 pick, then I would NOT want to be Bryan Colangelo. That is going to be a VERY tough decision to make.
    ...Or a very easy one.

    ADD I got UTAH with the #1 pick, four times in a row, using that Lottery simulator.
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Which wouldn't be a bad thing. I don't think.
    DWill has a chance to be a very solid swingman, and that is a hole we need to fill. Perhaps not as glaring as our need for a Big man, but you take the Best Player available. Some feel that is DWill.

    If he hadn't shown off his new found Jumpshot in the NCAA tournament, then I might be a bit more leary of picking him.

    If we get the #1 pick, then I would NOT want to be Bryan Colangelo. That is going to be a VERY tough decision to make.
    ...Or a very easy one.

    ADD I got UTAH with the #1 pick, four times in a row, using that Lottery simulator.
    we need to grab D Will and just tear it up in the playoffs.

    Bayless*
    Derozan
    D Will*
    Amir/Ed
    Amir/Ed/Trade

    *= Arizona

    Now that is an explosive starting 5. With that line up we might need to stock up on some extra rims in the ACC.

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