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Are Kemba Walker and Jerryd Bayless redundant?

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  • #16
    I think trading down is rather pointless in a draft this weak. I don't think this draft class contains any guys that teams will desperately want.. I'd wager that is true even for the #1 overall pick. The fact that Chad Ford has us taking Derrick Williams #1 overall if we had that pick, and other teams taking Kyrie Irving, shows there is no true clear-cut best player in this draft.

    I don't know if we're asking the right question. Are Kemba and Jerryd redundant.. they have similar skill-sets. One could argue that Bayless is young and therefore has a big ceiling ahead despite being in the league already 3 years. I'd argue that one who's been around that long should have show more than what he's shown thus far. 3 years is a long time, and it's not as if he's been on teams that are shy about playing their young players.

    As a Raptors fan, I'm looking into the future and I see Jerryd Bayless as a backup point guard. I can't see him being a starter unless he bounces around the league and plays for a bad teams for his entire career. Kemba Walker may have similar skill-set, but I want to at least give the kid a chance. He carried his team *deep* into the NCAA tournament. He got better and better. College career-wise, he's improved, rather drastically year after year. They may have similar games, but I think that's where the comparison ends. Leadership, tenacity, hard-working, will-to-win; these are things you can't teach.

    One might call it redundancy, I call it upgrade.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    • #17
      The question is moot because Walker is not going to be the best player left when the Raptors pick. I willl be SHOCKED if we take Walker at 3.

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      • #18
        malefax wrote: View Post
        The question is moot because Walker is not going to be the best player left when the Raptors pick. I willl be SHOCKED if we take Walker at 3.
        Who knows where they will draft? It's entirely possible the Raps draft at 6, in which case it's likely Walker will already be off the board.

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        • #19
          Bayless is the better player right now.I would start him next year.It doesn't matter who we draft..even if it's Irving or Walker..I'll start Bayless because the way he played at the end of this season earned him the starting job for next season.Unless he shows up at training camp different from what we saw..I'd give him the chance to prove himself.

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          • #20
            The thing is I don't really care who is the better player right now. If we were a piece away from being a playoff team, then sure, I'd stick with Bayless and see how it goes. But we're about 5 pieces away, plus a coach and a GM. I'd rather worry about who will be a better player 3 years from now, and I think there's no question Walker will be a better player.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #21
              ebrian wrote: View Post
              I'd rather worry about who will be a better player 3 years from now
              Exactly and this is what Colangelo stressed about if he's in the future plans of the Raptors. Working for the future instead of thinking about the present.

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              • #22
                ebrian wrote: View Post
                The thing is I don't really care who is the better player right now. If we were a piece away from being a playoff team, then sure, I'd stick with Bayless and see how it goes. But we're about 5 pieces away, plus a coach and a GM. I'd rather worry about who will be a better player 3 years from now, and I think there's no question Walker will be a better player.
                See, I think there definitely is a question. That's the whole issue here. Who knows how Walker will play in the NBA? Do you really even know how tall he is? How will his game adjust to playing against much bigger players?

                Jerryd Bayless has improved in nearly every statistical category that counts each year he's been in the league, including scoring, rebounding, assists, FG%, 3PFG% and steals. By the end of this year he improved significantly. It's one thing to argue that end of year improvements don't mean anything, which is for another discussion. But place the end of year improvements he showed alongside his sustained year-by-year progression, and you're left with a player who has done nothing but get better with every game he's played.

                As j_bean said: I haven't heard a good reason why his success as a starter can't continue if given the opportunity.

                All signs - from improving numbers, improving confidence and improving experience - indicate that it is in fact likely that he will continue the success he achieved as a starter. Doing so would only continue the trend he's already established.

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                • #23
                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  Exactly and this is what Colangelo stressed about if he's in the future plans of the Raptors. Working for the future instead of thinking about the present.
                  If Colangelo had a crystal ball and knew how good a player would be three years down the road the Raptors would be World Champions.

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                  • #24
                    Colangelo has one of the better track records in the draft. Davis, DeRozan, Bargnani, Stoudemire, Marion, S.Jackson and Nash immediately come to mind.

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                    • #25
                      Take the best player available. If there ends up being conflict or a better option comes along a PG then you make a trade.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #26
                        Apollo wrote: View Post
                        Colangelo has one of the better track records in the draft. Davis, DeRozan, Bargnani, Stoudemire, Marion, S.Jackson and Nash immediately come to mind.
                        I like BC but let's not forget Mario Bennett, Jake Tsakalidis, Casey Jacobson and Zarko Cabarkapa all selected in the first round by BC.
                        The point is we don't know who will be better between Bayless and Walker 3 years from now.
                        We do know that Bayless when given the chance to start has played very well. What are the good reasons he won't be able to continue and even improve his game?
                        Walker has never played against the speed and size he'll encounter in the NBA. There is just no way of knowing where he will be in three years.

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                        • #27
                          The question should be not whether they are similar enough players, but whether Walker really is going to be that much of a better player than Bayless. If Walker is the best player available you take him. You certainly don't make decisions on who you're going to draft with the 3rd pick by whether or not his game is too similar to one of your bench players that might not even be a rotation player on a good team.

                          Now if the question is whether or not drafting Walker means that Bayless should be traded, I would say yes. Not because their games are too similar, but because I'm not a big fan of having two players that young at PG.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                          • #28
                            Why is everyone talking about best player available to picking Walker too high? This thread is about whether or not Walker and Bayless are too similar to make him worth being drafted by this team.

                            Truthfully we don't know if Kemba Walker will be better. I think he will, but others will beg to differ. It's just a difference of opinion on something we really won't know until he plays. But what we do know is, while Bayless has improved his stats with more minutes played, he still wasn't very good. And after 3 years in the NBA I think it's pretty clear that he is not an NBA starter on a good team. I mean, he was barely a starter on a team that lost 60 games. And since we're striving to become a good team, it's clear that Bayless is not the answer in 3 years' time. So I think we can all agree on that. Therefore, in a draft as weak as this, I see no issue in drafting a similar player who has the potential of being great.

                            This is more of an aside, but Kemba Walker also makes sense from.. for a lack of a better word, an "employment" standpoint. Colangelo finds himself in a precarious situation where he needs to be looking 3-4 years ahead, while he is trying to preserve his job wherein his bosses are looking for results, YESTERDAY. You really can't go wrong drafting Kemba in this case because everyone's 2nd cousin knows who Kemba Walker is because of what he did in the NCAA tournament.
                            your pal,
                            ebrian

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                            • #29
                              j bean wrote: View Post
                              I like BC but let's not forget Mario Bennett, Jake Tsakalidis, Casey Jacobson and Zarko Cabarkapa all selected in the first round by BC.
                              Oh, I'm not forgetting them. Everyone misses but Colangelo has proven to miss a lot less than most.

                              j bean wrote: View Post
                              The point is we don't know who will be better between Bayless and Walker 3 years from now. .
                              It doesn't matter, if Walker is the best player on the board when the Raptors are on the clock. Where Walker is taken in the draft isn't going to mean a damn thing three years down the road if he turns out to be a good pro. If their selection busts then I want to know it happened for reasons other than they second guessed their draft board or they accommodated their current roster instead of following their draft board.

                              j bean wrote: View Post
                              We do know that Bayless when given the chance to start has played very well..
                              So you're suggesting they should let eight games influence the draft to the point where they're bypassing their draft board and not taking the best player available?

                              j bean wrote: View Post
                              What are the good reasons he won't be able to continue and even improve his game?
                              It was eight games. He could have been on a hot streak. The guy was streaky all year as evident by the frequent generation of "trade Bayless" and "Bayless should be starting" threads. I have no doubt he's going to improve but I am not sold on eight games. An eight game window can make anybody look good if you catch them at the right time.

                              j bean wrote: View Post
                              Walker has never played against the speed and size he'll encounter in the NBA. There is just no way of knowing where he will be in three years.
                              Walker is faster than 99% of the league. Guys will struggle to keep in front of him if anything. Not to mention you can take Walkers' name out of that phrase and insert anybody entering the draft and it's still just as applicable.

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                              • #30
                                Is Walker really that much better than Bayless? Please back up whatever your argument may be.

                                What are people expecting Walker to do that Bayless can't - so much so that you'd be willing to essentially waste this draft to - in the best case scenario - marginally upgrade a position already filled by a player with good potential?

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