Draft Profile: Kawhi Leonard

[Raptors_]

How the fck am I wrong? James Johnson did measure out at 6'7" http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/James-Johnson-5053/

Having not played significant minutes during the season James came to us a little bit out of shape, not Oliver Miller out of shape, but by no means was he is mid season form. He will come into camp a little better prepared as he feels he has been given the opportunity to play regular minutes for a team that is heading in the right direction.

If you even took the time to read my post no where did I hate on Johnson, "Johnson has shown a good ability to handle and pass the ball from the 3 spot", does that sound like hate?

I had the opportunity to watch James Johnson play live at Wake Forest and followed his career fairly closely before he ever became a Raptor, so don't come spouting I am wrong if you don't want to back that crap up!

nope your still wrong

[enlightenment]

People have to make it clear, height will ALWAYS be measured with shoes on.

[Tim W.]

I've made the point before that Standing Reach and Wingspan are far more important to the game. So you don't need to argue that with me. I agree. But why then, make such a big deal about whether he is 6'-9"?

I realize he was measured at the Combine as 6'-7" ... WITHOUT SHOES.
NO players height is listed w/o Shoes. Nobody. In the whole league. So fine, you can say that he is 6'-7" and your "source" backs that up, but your source also calls him out as a 6'-8" Forward.

...So that must throw you for a loop. Your source is giving Conflicting facts..!!!
Either way, whatever. You're arguing some pretty Minor, Trivial points. Especially if, as you say, "you don't play the game standing straight up." ...

Just on a side note, I've never understood players being measured with shoes. All that does is tell us how thick the soles of their shoes are. Nothing more. Height without shoes gives the best measurement in comparison to everyone else. Yes, they all play with shoes, but does that mean they should weigh football players in full pads?

[Tim W.]

Your wrong. And this kid just looks like another sonny weems, no thanks. I doubt he'll be able guard the taller and stronger SF's in this league. Stop hating on JJ

How is he hating on James Johnson? And how on earth is Leonard another Sonny Weems? Leonard's biggest strength is his defense, and he'll probably immediately be able to contribute in that area. If Weems were the defender that Leonard is, the Raptors would be lucky to re-sign him.

[Chr1s1anL]

The reason I said he was like J.J. was cause of his skill set. His a good defender and great rebounder(averaged a double-double), good athlete and has great court vision(averaged 3 ast/game with a great turnover ratio). That sounds like J.J. but his 19 years-old not 24. Not hating I just if BryCo would pick him up if we fall to 4,5 or 6(God forbid).

[Quixotic]

Just on a side note, I've never understood players being measured with shoes. All that does is tell us how thick the soles of their shoes are. Nothing more. Height without shoes gives the best measurement in comparison to everyone else. Yes, they all play with shoes, but does that mean they should weigh football players in full pads?

I never understood it either. If they had measured them without shoes, it wouldn't be that difficult to just factor in another inch for the shoes. But with shoes included in the measurement, they have crap like Aldrich and his 2.25" heels making him seem much taller than his 6'9" height. I don't see people putting down their shoe-included height on their driver's license just because nobody walks around on the street or drives their car without shoes on.

[joey_hesketh]

Not saying I agree with it.

Just saying thats its a fact. And when comparing heights of players, one must use the Measurement of 'w/ shoes' because the player you are comparing him against will be given the same criteria with which to compare. If NBA.com listed the players 'w/o shoes', then I'd be all for that. I'm just going with what I got.
Like I said a week ago, they would be better served listing Wingspan and Standing Reach rather than a Players Height.

ADD Would Standing Reach be measured with Shoes ON or OFF? haha

[Beaverboi]

Having not played significant minutes during the season James came to us a little bit out of shape, not Oliver Miller out of shape, but by no means was he is mid season form. H

Have some respect, the dude died last week. In unrelated news, Taco Bell stocks plummeted.

[WJF]

Have some respect, the dude died last week. In unrelated news, Taco Bell stocks plummeted.

I don'even know if the first part of your comment was supposed to be funny or not, but you missed either way

RIP Robert Traylor

[Quixotic]

Not saying I agree with it.

Just saying thats its a fact. And when comparing heights of players, one must use the Measurement of 'w/ shoes' because the player you are comparing him against will be given the same criteria with which to compare. If NBA.com listed the players 'w/o shoes', then I'd be all for that. I'm just going with what I got.
Like I said a week ago, they would be better served listing Wingspan and Standing Reach rather than a Players Height.

ADD Would Standing Reach be measured with Shoes ON or OFF? haha

We're really not arguing with you about whether it's a fact or not you know (we know it's a fact), just talking about ways the measurements could be improved, so no need to feel defensive. =P

And of course standing reach should be measured with shoes off. The point is that players change shoes over the course of their careers, and it's utterly retarded to assume their shoes will be the same as the 2.25" heels they used at the draft combine. If you look at what Draftexpress did with Hassan Whiteside -- the guy came in and measured with flip-flops, giving him only a 0.5" or 0.75" boost. Sometime after that measurement, Draftexpress decided it was stupid to keep that small a boost on his record as the guy will unlikely play in flip-flops during his career, and gave him a flat 1" boost. Most of you won't remember this happening though and will just use Draftexpress' new height w/shoes for Whiteside as fact, even though it was just an estimation.

[Delonte_West]

Leonard is the #1 guy on my board for the raps. He is a great defender, brings that toughness that we lack. He brings rebounding, and can score as well. He was a leader in the ncaa tourny. I dont know why this forum isnt seriously considering him as the best player available for the raps

[ceez]

Probably because he's not the best player available

[Delonte_West]

the 3 other guys people project the raps taking dont strike me as that much more talented. I think leonard should be right in that conversation. He brings to the table exactly what the raps need. I would be happy with irving or kanter, but i think leonard is being slept on by everyone. also, id like to wait until next year to draft a pg when daivid stern will fix the draft so we get kabongo :P

[joey_hesketh]

We're really not arguing with you about whether it's a fact or not you know (we know it's a fact), just talking about ways the measurements could be improved, so no need to feel defensive. =P

And of course standing reach should be measured with shoes off. The point is that players change shoes over the course of their careers, and it's utterly retarded to assume their shoes will be the same as the 2.25" heels they used at the draft combine. If you look at what Draftexpress did with Hassan Whiteside -- the guy came in and measured with flip-flops, giving him only a 0.5" or 0.75" boost. Sometime after that measurement, Draftexpress decided it was stupid to keep that small a boost on his record as the guy will unlikely play in flip-flops during his career, and gave him a flat 1" boost. Most of you won't remember this happening though and will just use Draftexpress' new height w/shoes for Whiteside as fact, even though it was just an estimation.

I wasn't getting defensive. Just explaining why the original conversation between WJF and I, began.

I agree with everything that you are saying.

Like I said, I had this conversation not too long before you came back, and was arguing for them to get rid of Listed Height and start giving us something that is actually tangible. It was regarding Bismack Biyombo and how he stands at 6'-9" (I think?) and yet his arms essentially grant him the abilities of a player 3"-4" taller than him. The distance from a players Toes to the Top of his Head is useless.

I always thought it was silly they listed Dejuan Blair as 6'-7" when he's barely 6'-5". But with a wingspand of 7'-2", he's able to play far beyond what his height would have us believe to be 'limitations'.

Either way, I agree.

[Tim W.]

the 3 other guys people project the raps taking dont strike me as that much more talented. I think leonard should be right in that conversation. He brings to the table exactly what the raps need. I would be happy with irving or kanter, but i think leonard is being slept on by everyone. also, id like to wait until next year to draft a pg when daivid stern will fix the draft so we get kabongo :P

The Raptors need to take the best player available. And if they draft in the top 3, that's not Leonard.

[Quixotic]

I wasn't getting defensive. Just explaining why the original conversation between WJF and I, began.

I agree with everything that you are saying.

Like I said, I had this conversation not too long before you came back, and was arguing for them to get rid of Listed Height and start giving us something that is actually tangible. It was regarding Bismack Biyombo and how he stands at 6'-9" (I think?) and yet his arms essentially grant him the abilities of a player 3"-4" taller than him. The distance from a players Toes to the Top of his Head is useless.

I always thought it was silly they listed Dejuan Blair as 6'-7" when he's barely 6'-5". But with a wingspand of 7'-2", he's able to play far beyond what his height would have us believe to be 'limitations'.

Either way, I agree.

I think height should still be listed, as it does affect things like being able to see more clearly over the fray, but yeah, it would be nice if wingspan was made an official measurement. You can kinda see the general consensus on measurements though when you look at NBA video games marketed to the public. I haven't seen a single one of them care about wingspan, and that's probably why you see so many posts saying "X is better than Y because he's an inch taller." Amusingly, the very same video games also don't care about things like the soft cap and mid-level exception (I know they've been trying to implement it, but far from correctly), and you can kinda see why so many fans are so oblivious about what their teams can or cannot add via free agency.

[joey_hesketh]

I think height should still be listed, as it does affect things like being able to see more clearly over the fray, but yeah, it would be nice if wingspan was made an official measurement. You can kinda see the general consensus on measurements though when you look at NBA video games marketed to the public. I haven't seen a single one of them care about wingspan, and that's probably why you see so many posts saying "X is better than Y because he's an inch taller." Amusingly, the very same video games also don't care about things like the soft cap and mid-level exception (I know they've been trying to implement it, but far from correctly), and you can kinda see why so many fans are so oblivious about what their teams can or cannot add via free agency.

You probably shouldn't go anywhere near the Trade Forum then ... hahah

But ya, it'd be nice if they made the new CBA "Picture Book compatable" ...

[Quixotic]

You probably shouldn't go anywhere near the Trade Forum then ... hahah

But ya, it'd be nice if they made the new CBA "Picture Book compatable" ...

I only go there when people aren't responding quick enough on this forum. =P

I also forgot to mention that I don't understand why teams can't just re-measure and update their players' measurements each year at training camp. It's so pointless to continue listing a player's measurements from when he was drafted.

[rbreezy68]

This guy is actualy good, its seems that he can shoot it, he's lanky athletic, he will be a good player , i saw san diego state play in march madness and they had a nice system, he better bring his play to the nba

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Why would we want another JJ?