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Thread: HoopsWorld: Should Toronto Trade the Pick?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default HoopsWorld: Should Toronto Trade the Pick?

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19813

    Now that the season has ended does the plan to keep the high draft pick actually fit the Raptors needs? Even Colangelo recognized just how young his team is already when he said, "quite frankly we are so young that I don't think we can afford to put two more young pieces into the fold next year." The Raptors have high potential young talent at every position already.

    "There was a commitment to being patient and letting the young guys develop and come along," explained Colangelo. "We feel like we are accomplishing a lot of that when we look at what DeMar DeRozan has done, Amir Johnson coming along the way he has, Ed Davis now that he is healthy and in the lineup and playing, and Andrea (Bargnani) continues to elevate his game."
    It is not very common for me to disagree with Colangelo. In this case, I do disagree. If the Raptors can get two of the higher picks and walk away with a combination of Walker or Irving/Kanter/Williams, they should go for it. Being too young is only a problem when one or two of those young pieces are already franchise or perennial all-star talent. As of now the Raptors do not have those types of players as DD and ED appear to be complimentary players who may one day appear in an all-star game. I'd acquire another high draft pick in the hopes of obtaining two good pieces. Look at Portland, 2006 was a weak draft and they got two of the better players from it in Aldridge and Roy (before injury). Colangelo might be playing his poker face right now though.

    Colangelo has traded young players and draft picks to get the position player he believed the Raptors needed on more than one occasion already since arriving in Toronto. The Raptors need for a rim protecting rebounder at center has been obvious during Colangelo's entire stay with the team and if he can swing a deal to get the center they need, there should be no hesitation to include the Raptors pick.

    Besides, if one agrees with Colangelo that this draft lacks star power, the higher the Raptors draft, the more pressure there should be to move the pick. Colangelo shouldn't want just another young impact player to compete for minutes with the Raptors existing young talent if he has an alternative.

    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1Mbp3VMuV


    I agree with Brotherson not wanting another young player to compete for minutes with existing talent, however, if this young players is an IMPACT player I most certainly do want the competition. Nothing should be handed to the players and, quite frankly, we aren't talking about current players who are already franchise or all-star talent.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    He made that original quote when refering to trading our Second pick in the draft this year for James Johnson. I believe at that big long press conference. Saying that adding Johnson, who already has been developed slightly, was more beneficial for the team than acquiring 'two more young pieces into the fold'.

    So I'm not sure how this translates to us trading our own pick as well. I could be wrong on that though.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    If we could bring in 2 can't miss players, sure going young is not that bad, if we bring in 2 young players with "potential" I say no as well.
    Depending on how things go in the off-season our roster may not be that young. Barbosa is due to be back, Reggie could be re-signed for a cheap deal, and one or both of Jose and Andrea could be shipped out bringing back a mix of youth and expiring deals. Ajinca and Weems will more than likely not be back, although I would like to keep Ajinca and get rid of Alibi. If they are replaced with one Vet the team gets a little older.

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    So much wrong with this.

    First off the Raps don't have high potential young talent at every position. If anyone considers the talent level (in general) on this team to have "high potential" well, then every team in the league is stacked with "high potential". Potential is so abstract it has lost all meaning in the basketball world. It has become "Player X is young so therefore he has potential". This is not at all the case. Patrick O'Bryant had high potential.... potential is MEANINGLESS without results.

    In my view, the only guy who has high potential on this team is Ed Davis. A guy with potential is Derozan. Anyone else (reffering to the young guys here) COULD become a useful basketball player in the right circumstances. But more than likely they will be out of this league in short order. Then you have a guy like Amir who, while being a solid basketball player, has likely come to his ceiling. Thats not a bad thing, but I don't think anyone should expect him to be anything more than he is right now.... a reliable, efficient hardworking player.

    The only position the Raps probably wouldn't upgrade is at PF. Unfortunately its thats the easiest position in the league to fill.

    Secondly, whether the Raps trade their pick should be completely dependant on where they draft and what is offered. If the Raps can get a better young player at any position, through any means, then they take it. I don't care if this person challenges someone else for minutes... in fact that may be the best thing. Force these guys to earn their keep.


    This team is not good. And its not good because of a lack of talent. Yes there is inexperience on this team, but there is also no impact player. There is no stud. There is a slew of one dimensional players severely lacking in many other areas of their game, and the better players in the NBA are NOT one dimensional. They didn't come into the league as one dimensional. They may not be good at all things, but they can do many, many things well. Right now our only reliable positions are PG (Jose) and PF (Amir/Ed).... if the Raps can use this pick (whether draft or trade) to upgrade ANY position with a young guy, they take it.

    This team needs to keep stacking youth.... but GOOD young players. Not just young players like they have been.

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    Yeah what I got from it was the quality of talent they'd get with the Mia pick. Great trade.

    If we could flip bargs and/or Jose for another top 5 pick (or even top 10, this draft is looking better by the day) then I think you have to do it. It's not like we'll be competing for a playoff spot next season.
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    Thats kind of backwards thinking - not wanting too many young prospects.

    First of all, you're never sure which guys are going to develop and how far. So just sticking with DeRozan and Davis may not work, if they both hit a ceiling in their development.

    Instead, better to stock your team with many young prospects, and create a competitive environment where they're pushing each other to be better, pushing each other to develop, pushing each other for playing time. See who comes out on top - keep those guys, then trade your other young guys (who hopefully will also be good, just not AS good as the others) to fill in missing pieces to make a championship run.

    Yes, you want some vet players to set a good tone, work ethic, etc, but you don't need many - 2 to 3 tops. And the coaching staff is really responsible for creating the right environment in the end anyways.

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    The Raptors have two potentially very good prospects, in Davis and DeRozan, one good prospect, in Amir, and two decent prospects, in Bayless and James. You don't trade your top 5 pick with a roster like that. Hoopsworld is out to lunch on this.
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    As far as I see it we need upgrades/replacements of starters at these positions

    PG: Calderon is not the future starting point guard, and bayless hasn't proven himself... yet.
    SF: James Johnson hasn't proven himself yet, and I don't think he is the answer long term, although hopefully will be a useful back up
    C: I don't see Bargnani being the starting Center on an NBA championship team. He could be a very useful piece, but (rightly or wrongly) I doubt that will be in a raptors uniform.

    If the raptors are really going to be contenders then they must acquire (draft/trade) an impact/stud/franchise talent for AT LEAST one of these positions. If you can add top level talent with good odds they will capitalize on their potential then you take that player.

    We need to upgrade back ups at the following positions
    PG - if Bayless steps up then we still need to find a back up
    SG - Unless we resign weems to play as an SG and he has a resurgence, which is unlikely we need to find a new back up SG
    C - We not only need a starting C but a back up C as well. Ajinca nor Alabi has proven anything, maybe the step up but maybe they don't.

    As far as I'm concerned Center is the position we need to address the most. Hopefully Coangelo will be able to convert our trade-able assets (IMO Bargs/Calderon/Barbosa) for some useful pieces, but I doubt will be able to fetch that "impact player" with these guys (unless Matt's wet dream about Howard comes true).

    That means that IF you have the option to pick up MORE draft picks that are LIKELY to land impact talent aka another top 5 pick. I would do it. Derozan may make an all star game or two but he is not a franchise player, and that's okay. We still have a couple of years to draft/acquire that big piece. unfortunately, we CAN'T give away all our young talent to get it (like the knicks did) which means we probably have to draft the player or sign him as a free agent. At this point it's better to get more young talent which will probably turn into, at the very least, decent starters or good rotation players, that way you have a great team that a free agent would like sign with.

    If you can get Minny pick i'd go for it.
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    We definitely should try to acquire a second 1st round pick. If we can't get another lottery pick, then even a mid-round pick could be useful for picking someone like Singleton.

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    I don't know. While its tempting to get excited about the draft and want to draft more than one player, next year is supposed to be very very deep and it seems to me it would be better to stack up for then.

    Things will become more clear after seeing some of the players in pre-draft workouts. And you never know, on draft day, a player you have your eye on might start to slide, and you can pick him up with a small trade with little risk.
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    There is nobody in this draft, outside the top 10, maybe even top 5 that will be an immediate upgrade over anyone on this team, already.

    Toronto needs to draft a top 5 player and try to get one or two established NBA'ers in free-agency/trade.

    If you want Toronto to be in the lottery for the next three years, you're deciding to waste a roster spot on 'potential'.

    Is 'potential' the missing ingredient? Seriously?
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    There is nobody in this draft, outside the top 10, maybe even top 5 that will be an immediate upgrade over anyone on this team, already.

    Toronto needs to draft a top 5 player and try to get one or two established NBA'ers in free-agency/trade.

    If you want Toronto to be in the lottery for the next three years, you're deciding to waste a roster spot on 'potential'.

    Is 'potential' the missing ingredient? Seriously?
    High potential? Yes. I do agree that the Raptors don't need to be grabbing a whole lot of picks in this draft, but if they can get Irving and Kanter, I think that would be great.

    I disagree about going out and getting some established NBAers. Unless they're All-Stars, you just adding more mediocre talent with the likelihood of creating a mediocre team. Like it or not, the Raptors are probably going to end up in the lottery again next year, and that's probably the best thing for them in the long term, especially if it's a high pick.
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    There is nobody in this draft, outside the top 10, maybe even top 5 that will be an immediate upgrade over anyone on this team, already.

    Toronto needs to draft a top 5 player and try to get one or two established NBA'ers in free-agency/trade.

    If you want Toronto to be in the lottery for the next three years, you're deciding to waste a roster spot on 'potential'.

    Is 'potential' the missing ingredient? Seriously?
    1) You propose to get something out of nothing? How do you propose we trade for two established NBA'ers without hurting our future?

    2) Would making the playoffs for a few years, exiting in the first round, then heading back to the lottery appeal to you?

    This isn't NBA2K. You don't trade bupkiss for your favorite veterans and then magically start a run of championship seasons.
    Last edited by Quixotic; Tue May 17th, 2011 at 07:25 PM.

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