Barbosa

[j bean]

It should depend on the coach. If he sees the shots arent falling, take him out. Barbosa is not the type of player who takes long to get his shot going. Youll fairly see in his first 3 shots if he's on or not.

If Triano started pulling guys off the court because they missed their first three shots he wouldn't be so "liked and respected" by his players.

[WJF]

he can hit the 3 sometimes. he shot 28% thats not that bad. Does not score well in transition? most of his points are scored in fastbreaks. Weems averaged 2.6 APG and barbosa Averaged 2.1 i think he is slightly better at passing than barbosa. I'd still take weems over barbosa, he's got size over him and explosiveness. He still has time to improve but i don't think BC will resign him.

Try re-reading what I posted!
Assists per game does not necessarily tell whether you are a good passer or not, moving the ball to the open shooter is a good thing, but creating and passing is different. For the record Weems averaged 1.8 apg, not 2.6, Barbosa also had the better assist to turnover ratio as well....sorry but your argument is busted.

[footarez]

I would really love for the Raps to keep Barbosa. He's a veteran who's been in both losing and winning seasons, tons of playoff experience and seems to be a positive influence in the locker room. He brings quick and momentum changing points off the bench.

But, keeping him for 7.6mil, IMO, is way over the top. I dont think there's any way around it. Even if BC tries to convince him to opt out to sign a lower but longer deal, he would be dumb to take it. For less pay and more years, logically, he should sign with a contender to put himself in a position to win a ring.

With all the positives he brings, the negative drastically outweighs them. His wrist is a major, major deterrent in signing a long contract.

that is what i've been preaching all along

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

If Triano started pulling guys off the court because they missed their first three shots he wouldn't be so "liked and respected" by his players.

I think youre taking it way too literally.
Of course, if all 3 shots were highly contested then its unfair to pull him out. But if all three are open, close to the rim shots then something is not really working out. And by 1st three shots i mean gauge as to how he's playing, not literally count, ok 1st shot, no good, 2nd shot, no good, 3rd shot, no good, SUB!!!!
Besides, Barbosa's role is a sub and sparkplug, its not like he's a starter that you have to give big minutes every game.
If youre going to hate the coach for pulling you out because your shots are not falling and take it personally then youve got bigger problems than just your shot.

[Raptors_]

Try re-reading what I posted!
Assists per game does not necessarily tell whether you are a good passer or not, moving the ball to the open shooter is a good thing, but creating and passing is different. For the record Weems averaged 1.8 apg, not 2.6, Barbosa also had the better assist to turnover ratio as well....sorry but your argument is busted.

i'd still take weems

[Papa Burgundy]

He's pure speed and scoring off the bench ... knows his role ... I say extend him!

[Raptors_]

cut em both and bring in affalo, terrance williams, michael redd or J.R smith.

[Tim W.]

I would really love for the Raps to keep Barbosa. He's a veteran who's been in both losing and winning seasons, tons of playoff experience and seems to be a positive influence in the locker room. He brings quick and momentum changing points off the bench.

But, keeping him for 7.6mil, IMO, is way over the top. I dont think there's any way around it. Even if BC tries to convince him to opt out to sign a lower but longer deal, he would be dumb to take it. For less pay and more years, logically, he should sign with a contender to put himself in a position to win a ring.

With all the positives he brings, the negative drastically outweighs them. His wrist is a major, major deterrent in signing a long contract.

If the Raptors were in a different position, Barbosa would be a great guy to keep. But there are two problems with keeping him. The first is that he takes playing time away from other young players who may need it, especially in crunch time. Secondly, he's an asset that will probably only decline after next season. Rebuilding teams don't have the luxury of keeping declining assets like Barbosa because they need players who will either help them over the next 5-8 years (which for a guy like Barbosa who has had the injury history he has is doubtful) or assets that increase in value. Barbosa sin't either of those.

[WJF]

If the Raptors were in a different position, Barbosa would be a great guy to keep. But there are two problems with keeping him. The first is that he takes playing time away from other young players who may need it, especially in crunch time. Secondly, he's an asset that will probably only decline after next season. Rebuilding teams don't have the luxury of keeping declining assets like Barbosa because they need players who will either help them over the next 5-8 years (which for a guy like Barbosa who has had the injury history he has is doubtful) or assets that increase in value. Barbosa sin't either of those.

Actually a healthy Barbosa on an expiring deal is a great asset. We have seen what guys like Barea, Crawford, Mayo and Harden have done in these playoffs and a team may look for that scoring punch off the bench for a playoff run.

[Tim W.]

Actually a healthy Barbosa on an expiring deal is a great asset. We have seen what guys like Barea, Crawford, Mayo and Harden have done in these playoffs and a team may look for that scoring punch off the bench for a playoff run.

I think Barbosa is a great asset. I agree. I just said his value probably goes down after next season. His age, as well as the fact that he'll have signed a new deal, probably long term. At the next trade deadline is probably the best time to trade him. Hopefully he'll be healthy.

[Raptorsss]

I don't understand the fascination with players like J,R, Smith, Nick Young, jamal crawford, For every game they help you win, they make you lose 5 games with the amount of bricks they throw up. You can put ben gordon on that list as well.

As per the thread, if I was Barbosa (it's his player option after all), I'd take that option year. Management like they did with Halladay and Stojakovic, if the team isn't working out they'll agree to trade Barbosa to a contender.

But yeah I want him in a Raptors uniform next season.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

If the Raptors were in a different position, Barbosa would be a great guy to keep. But there are two problems with keeping him. The first is that he takes playing time away from other young players who may need it, especially in crunch time. Secondly, he's an asset that will probably only decline after next season. Rebuilding teams don't have the luxury of keeping declining assets like Barbosa because they need players who will either help them over the next 5-8 years (which for a guy like Barbosa who has had the injury history he has is doubtful) or assets that increase in value. Barbosa sin't either of those.

Looking at it from a different perspective, Barbosa is a veteran worth having on a team, specially when the Raps main guys are pretty much the same position as he is. He's going to provide good advice and guidance to Bayless, DD and to the young pg if we're going to get one. But like i said, 7mil is too much for this purpose.

[Employee]

I like the idea of Barbosa playing his last year at $7 mil. He could have another year of being a solid player and mentoring the youngens. This would also give the opportunity to trade his expiring deal to a team looking to contend with that extra push off the bench or a team looking to free up cap space. Even if the raps keep him for that last year it would take a nice chunk of salary off the books next year.

[Tim W.]

Looking at it from a different perspective, Barbosa is a veteran worth having on a team, specially when the Raps main guys are pretty much the same position as he is. He's going to provide good advice and guidance to Bayless, DD and to the young pg if we're going to get one. But like i said, 7mil is too much for this purpose.

I think he's a luxury, though. He's far more valuable as a trade asset, even if he were making less money. The Raptors would gain more from trading him than from keeping him.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I think he's a luxury, though. He's far more valuable as a trade asset, even if he were making less money. The Raptors would gain more from trading him than from keeping him.

A luxury we cant afford! Agree.

[jeff_hostetler]

You know, I voted that I hope he opts in then we trade him, but, if he opts out, that's another 7.6m the Raps can use for free agency.

If they pick up the options on Julian Wright and Joey Dorsey, AND Barbosa opts out, that's 21.7m the Raps have to spend (assuming, of course, the cap stays the same). Even if the cap drops significantly, the Raps would still have PLENTY to outbid LAC for Deandre Jordan.

Then they flip Calderon for Felton, and have Bargnani come off the bench.

Felton/Bayless
Derozan/______
J.Johnson/J.Wright/Kleiza
Davis/A.Johnson/Dorsey
Jordan/Bargnani

+ the #5 pick.

[Raptorsss]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet, maybe he could help recruit his friend Nene to the Raptors?

[Raptors_]

You know, I voted that I hope he opts in then we trade him, but, if he opts out, that's another 7.6m the Raps can use for free agency.

If they pick up the options on Julian Wright and Joey Dorsey, AND Barbosa opts out, that's 21.7m the Raps have to spend (assuming, of course, the cap stays the same). Even if the cap drops significantly, the Raps would still have PLENTY to outbid LAC for Deandre Jordan.

Then they flip Calderon for Felton, and have Bargnani come off the bench.

Felton/Bayless
Derozan/______
J.Johnson/J.Wright/Kleiza
Davis/A.Johnson/Dorsey
Jordan/Bargnani

+ the #5 pick.

J wright should be behind kleiza

[Quixotic]

You know, I voted that I hope he opts in then we trade him, but, if he opts out, that's another 7.6m the Raps can use for free agency.

If they pick up the options on Julian Wright and Joey Dorsey, AND Barbosa opts out, that's 21.7m the Raps have to spend (assuming, of course, the cap stays the same). Even if the cap drops significantly, the Raps would still have PLENTY to outbid LAC for Deandre Jordan.

Then they flip Calderon for Felton, and have Bargnani come off the bench.

Felton/Bayless
Derozan/______
J.Johnson/J.Wright/Kleiza
Davis/A.Johnson/Dorsey
Jordan/Bargnani

+ the #5 pick.

Your numbers are off.

If Wright and Dorsey are slotted in for next year at the value of their qualifying offers (and I really am against extending the QO to Wright for $4 mil), and Barbosa, Evans, Weems and Ajinca all leave the team, that puts our 2011-2012 payroll at ~$44.3 mil. Even without counting the rookie scale contract for whoever we draft, that puts us at ~$13.7 mil, assuming the cap doesn't drop, which it most certainly will. Factor in the drafted rookie and that puts us at ~$11.8 mil, minus whatever the cap changes by. One more thing: until we renounce our TPE credit of ~$9.0 mil, or until it expires, the ~$11.8 mil becomes ~$2.8 mil, minus whatever the cap changes by. So yeah, I'm not sure where you got the $21.7 mil figure from at all.

[jeff_hostetler]

Last season's cap was $58 million.

I may have forgotten to add in a contract or something, but, looking here:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

It seems the Raps - without Barbosa but with everyone else - have 13.9m in cap space (based on this year's cap number).

Julian Wright at 4m is too much, I agree. So strike him. That leaves 17.9m in cap space.

Minus the rookie cap hold, of, say 3m or so, that leaves 14.9m.

That's likely enough to ensure the Raps can make a legitimate bid for Jordan if they were so inclined (which they should be).

Also: Raptors_: the reason I had Wright ahead of Kleiza was because Kleiza is likely injured until at least January, and given the nature of his injury/surgery, it will likely be longer until he's really in good game shape.