I looked through the Draftexpress measurement database for PGs, and of all PGs drafted and listed in the DB, Walker's standing reach of 7'7.5" puts him tied for 2nd last with Nate Robinson. Only Jerome Randle (7'4.5") is worse in this regard. For comparison, most of the elite PGs of the future (Deron Williams, Stephen Curry, John Wall, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook) have standing reaches between 8'1" and 8'5.5". Only Chris Paul comes in close at 7'9", but we all know he's special. (Rondo isn't listed here because I don't have his measurements.) Of the players around Kemba's size, Ford comes in at 7'9.5"; Brooks at 7'10"; Lawson, Conley and Augustin at 7'10.5"; Nelson at 7'11"; Flynn at 7'11.5".
The somewhat good news is Kemba has decent wingspan for his size. At 6'3.5", it's not great, but it could be worse. The same elite PGs mentioned above range from 6'3.5" to 6'9.25" in wingspan (with Curry's T-Rex arms at 6'3.5"), and Kemba has comparable wingspan to the players his size (Ford 5'11.5", Brooks 6'4", Lawson 6'0.75", Conley 6'5.75", Augustin 6'3.5", Nelson 6'2.5", Flynn 6'4"). For comparison, Bayless also has a 6'3.5" wingspan.
So my question is, will Raptors' fans be satisfied with this? I know how you guys love to compare our PGs to the top PGs in the league; Kemba's standing reach (or lack thereof) pretty much puts him in a group of his own, and not in a good way. If Kemba truly will be our PG of the future, and if we do end up contending, he'll be going up against PGs with half a foot or more (in standing reach) on him. That's not insignificant. Thoughts?
Quix... not half a foot, four inches, according to the stats you just displayed. And those guys are taller than him to begin with, so obviously their standing reach will be taller.
ADD Whoops, forgot the 8'-1". Nevermind. But still.
That's just moving the argument from his height, to his height with his arms straight up.
I'm not saying we should take him at 5. Never have. But I do think that he won't have any issues with being an impact player in the league. Regardless of how tall he is, with his arms up or not. The guy is SO crafty and creative in making his own shots, and he'll only get better with his passing. He was an above average rebounder, and that is just a testament to him not being afraid of the fact that he's a couple inches shorter.
In Masai we Trust.
I've never been a very big proponent on height. To me, it's wingspan and standing reach that matters (see my posts on Kanter). Height might matter in terms of providing better floor vision, being able to see over opposing players, and perhaps future body, but little else aside from that.
I was listing the comparisons more to show the obstacles he'll have to surpass. A lot of people were comparing him to the other undersized but successful guards in the league, but the fact is he's in pretty unique company.
And honestly, I think you're placing way too much stock in college performance, especially as a junior. Most of the opposing players he's faced will never see the light of a professional league, let alone the NBA, and he better be crafty with all that playing experience.
Edit: HMM, I swear the ADD wasn't there when I first read your reply. Oh well!
Last edited by Quixotic; Fri May 20th, 2011 at 08:56 PM.
A hop step or jump stop in 2 steps in motion, pivoting afterwards would be 3 steps, clearly travel.
The below is from the NCAA rule book for men and women basketball. The NBA rule book is too...shit...to try and isolate where the rule is.
b) Shooter’s Hop. When a stationary perimeter shooter receives a pass
while in contact with the court a pivot foot has been established. When after
receiving this pass the shooter then immediately hops with both feet to achieve
a desired shooting position, she has violated the provisions of the travel rule.
The shooter may legally perform a jump stop prior to releasing the try if she is
moving or dribbling, and with one foot on the court, she jumps off that foot and
simultaneously lands on both feet. From that position she may jump and release
a try, but may not pivot on either foot
Page 21 of the link
Kemba Walker was a fantastic college player, and has great skills, but he was a JUNIOR last year. That's a big factor that a lot of people are overlooking. Look at all of the juniors that have been drafted in the last couple of years. Other than Stephen Curry (who had fantastic stats in his freshman year anyways, although they were at Davidson playing against weaker opponents), all of the other players have been disappointments. It's still early in Evan Turner, Wesley Johnson, Hasheem Thabeet etc.'s careers, and I agree there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is not an encouraging trend. I'm not a huge fan of Brandon Knight, but his freshman year statistics are miles ahead of Kemba Walker's. You could even argue that Brandon Knight's freshman year was better than Kemba Walker's sophomore year, and if not, at the very least they were even.
I think Kemba Walker is a 6th man at best. That doesn't mean he would be a useless player, but not something I would look for drafting 5th.
The fact that he is a Junior does give me pause. For comparison, you'd have to project how dominant someone like Brandon Knight might be in his third year of college.
I do think that the Raptors need a PG for the future, but they have other major needs, including defence and rebounding. If they could pluck Flynn from MINN (who I think might be equivalent to Kemba), then perhaps they could look at Kawhi Leonard at 5 or by trading down a few spots. His athleticism, motor, rebounding and defence would complement the current team well, and he is very young with a developing offensive game.
By no means am I strongly advocating the drafting of Walker, but he did pretty good considering he was on a Huskies team where their next best player is probably Oriakhi, who isn't good at all. He didn't have that good of a supporting cast when compared to some of the other teams in the tournament, and he carried them. I expect Kemba will have an alright career in the NBA, but I see him being picked at 6-8 in the draft.
I always wanted Kanter, but that is looking like a distant dream, regardless, I fully trust that BC will make the right pick at 5 or hopefully work some magic to draft higher.
Last edited by Tank; Sat May 21st, 2011 at 12:44 AM.
Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Draft Kemba and suck out during the shortened season.
Get lucky on the balls and draft Harrison Barnes next year.
Two years from now we've go Derozan, Davis, Amir, Walker, Barnes, Bayless, J. Johnson, and Bargnani coming off the bench for scoring.
I can dig that.
You're missing the point. Walker was told by the UCONN coaches to score. He was their main weapon.
The best pg's are always a scoring threat. Jose is at his best when he attacks. The Raps suck when he runs the court and predictably stops, looking to pass.
Kemba has all the tools to be a Chris Paul level pg for years. He's mature, focussed and a winner. Exactly what this team needs.
Kanter showed he can be a bull at the Hoops thing. I wouldn't be unhappy if BC took him. But, in my opinion, Walker is the best choice. I like him better than Irving and Williams. (although, I'd be happy with either of them)
The team that gets Walker is going to compete for a title in the next 8 years.
If Walker can be an elite guard like CP, (and I think he can be), with a few moves and a good draft next year (Harrison Barnes would be great) than the Raps would be a perpetual contender in 2-3 years.
"Walker, who led Connecticut to the 2010-11 NCAA championship, was among the prospects the Kings interviewed Friday at the NBA draft combine, and one of the many guards the Kings have spoken with this week."
I am thinking this is an opportunity to trade down.
Last edited by jbml; Sat May 21st, 2011 at 09:14 AM.
CP3 is a pass first PG and likely the best defender at his position in the game. Nothing anyone has seen from Kemba Walker suggests he'll be like this. If that was the case, he be going first overall in this weaker draft class.
Keep Calm & Chive On
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