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Thread: Raptors Coaches. Lots of them to choose from. But who was the G.O.A.T.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Default Raptors Coaches. Lots of them to choose from. But who was the G.O.A.T.

    This is sort of a Branch off Thread idea I got from Apollo's one about PG's and Jose.



    Jay Triano: been with the team a LONG time. Longer than anyone else in the Franchise I'd imagine. At least that closely related to the court Players. Perhaps Scott McCullough. Still.
    He's been around. And has served under ALL of the Head Coaches since 2002, with Lenny Wilkens. He has also Head Coached in 229 Regular Season games,

    But this does not translate the same as it does with players I find.
    I'm not sure his impact to this franchise is nearly as big as say that of Lenny Wilkens.
    I don't mean that as a slight to Jay by any means, but.. well you know what I mean.


    Sam Mitchell: on the other hand, is the Raptors Longest Tenured Head Coach at 345 Regular Season games. Thats alot by our Coaching standards, but really.. thats not a whole lot.
    He is also our winningest Head Coach at 156 Regular Season wins.


    Then we have Lenny Wilkens: He's our Winningest Head Coach in Playoff games, and took the team to a level that we had/have never seen before. How much of that was "Carter in his Prime", is neither here-nor-there if you ask me.


    What about Butch Carter?: Our 4th Longest Tenured HC? First Coach to get us to the Playoffs. We didn't actually win in the playoffs with him, but you know.. it's something.


    What do you guys think?

    I'd hire Sam Mitchell again in a HEARTBEAT if it were up to me.
    Last edited by Joey; Tue May 31st, 2011 at 09:59 PM.
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  2. #2
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    • Sam Mitchell
    • Lenny Wilkens
    • Butch Carter
    • Jay Triano
    • Brendan Malone


    Butch is my favorite, followed by The Smitch.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Dubious Raptor Moment #14

    April 1996: Brendan Malone "Steps Down" Because of "Philosophical Differences"
    We've kept mum about this until now but The Flagrancy officially declares Brendan Malone the best coach in Raptor franchise history. How does a coach who goes 21-61 be the best in team history? By playing every game to win, by turning a team of castoffs into giant-killers, and by making the team the very embodiment of his never-say-die attitude. Malone wrenched more effort out of this team than any other Raptor coach since. It was a great record for an expansion team and the fans filled the SkyDome because the Raptors had the potential to beat anybody (as division champion Orlando Magic, Seattle Supersonics and World Champion Chicago Bulls found out).

    Dare to question our assertion? What's the first thing that comes to mind when I throw out the names of other Raptor head coaches?

    Lenny Wilkens = ZZZZZZZ
    Kevin O'Neill = The worst offence is a good defence
    Darrel Walker = Championship-level coach (wait, that's what Byron Scott thinks)
    Butch Carter = Cuckoo! Cuckoo!
    Sam Mitchell = He has some very nice suits

    Of course the other big reason to love Brendan Malone was that he actually stood up to Isiah Thomas. Thomas complained about over-playing the starters. He complained that the team might actually win too much and cost the team a high draft pick (oh, the irony). He planted stories in the media about Malone purposely throwing a game (a 40-point loss to Orlando) by playing the rookies too much to prove a point to the GM. Malone responded by using only 6 players two nights later in pushing the Los Angeles Lakers until the final minute.

    At the end of that first season Isiah announced that Malone was "stepping down" because of "philosophical differences." Unfortunately, Malone was too interested in winning.
    Source: The Flagrancy

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Dubious Raptor Moment #21

    April 1996: Darrell Walker clashes with Tracy McGrady
    "Darrell knows how to win and he knows how to prepare this team to play at a championship level"
    – Byron Scott on the hiring of Walker as Hornets assistant coach (21/07/04)

    “Bryon Scott is out of his fucking mind”
    –The Blue Baller, on Byron Scott on the hiring of Walker as Hornets assistant coach (02/10/06)

    The 1996-97 season proved to be a critical point in the careers of two young Raptors: Tracy McGrady, the promising 18-year old high-school draft pick, and coach Darrell Walker, the 2nd youngest coach in the league. The magical mentor-pupil relationship the front-office envisioned between the two quickly turned into a one-sided flogging, as Walker publicly scolded the youngster’s work ethic, claiming McGrady was “too cool” to work hard and would be out of the league in three years. Let’s take a look at what happened next…

    10 years later, the only thing lazy about Tracy McGrady is his left eye; the superstar swingman has won the NBA scoring title twice, been voted an NBA All-Star 6-times, and been selected All-NBA 5-times. He just turned 27 years old.

    Walker, as fate would have it, was the one out of NBA head coaching in two years. Isiah Thomas’ then hand-puppet would leave the Raptors with a 41-90 record, go on to coach the CBA’s Rockford Lightning to a 13-17 record, and then coach the Washington Wizards to a 15-23 record. After his stint with the Wizards, Walker became Michael Jordan’s new hand puppet, joining the team’s front office. It is at this point where Darrell Walker truly made his mark on NBA history: as the first person ever to be called down to coach a team. In 2000, the now Director of Player Personnel joined the Wizard’s WNBA sister team, the Washington Mystics, as interim head coach. He finished the season with a 14-18 record.
    Source: The Flagrancy

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Dubious Raptor Moment #30

    April 2004: Kevin O'Neill Fired
    Normally, I don't find myself in a position to defend Mr.Weatherbee but when the Raptors hired him they certainly knew what they were getting. Lenny Wilkens was fired the previous spring for his lack hard-nosed discipline, fiery temperment and defensive schemes. A disciple of Pat Riley & Jeff Van Gundy, Kevin O'Neill had all of those in spades.

    While the Raptor games during the 2003/2004 season were abysmal defensive affairs that forced a change to the long-standing Pizza Pizza 100-point promotion, at least the post-game press conferences were entertaining as O'Neill routinely spit out rage and cuss words. One night O'Neill even smashed a lamp in his hotel room upon finding out that Jalen Rose broke his hand (Notice how O'Neill didn't bust anything whenever VC got injured).

    At the end of the season O'Neill was summarily fired for the exact same reasons he was hired: the team was too defensive and the coach was too hot-headed. Fittingly, the day before he was fired O'Neill unleashed a nice tirade at the team that included this apt epitaph...

    "I can just tell you right now, the focus is not on winning here all the way through the organization all the time. There needs to be drastic measures taken."
    Source: The Flagrancy

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Dubious Raptor Moment #39

    December 2004-February 2005: Sam Mitchell physically assaults his players

    Nobody likes a pussy; especially Sam Mitchell. So when the rookie head coach remarked to Jim Todd during the team’s first practice that “there’s somethin’ faggity in the air”, you knew he wasn’t talking about Jerome Moiso’s Drakkar Noir. Mitchell was determined to turn around the culture of softness still lingering with the team from its country club days with Lenny Wilkens. He began by talking to the Raptor starting backcourt. Actually, replace “talking to” with “beating the shit out of”, and you get a better idea of this Players Coach’s style.

    In two separate locker room incidents, Sam Mitchell would go on to challenge Rafer Alston to a fist fight during half-time of game in Cleveland, and wrestle Vince Carter to the ground from a trainer’s table. But Mitchell picked a fight with the wrong two Raptors, both fought back: Alston left Gund Arena crying, and Carter’s mother issued a public complaint.
    Source: The Flagrancy

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Dubious Raptor Moment #3

    April 2000: Butch Carter Self-Destructs
    “Though this be madness, yet there is method in ‘t.” (Hamlet Act II, Scene II)

    Insanity is a helluva thing. While you may expect that it lurks in the mind of a man, you can never tell until pressure is applied. Like the pressure of coaching an NBA team in its first playoff appearance.

    Competing in the 2000 NBA playoffs should have been a crowning achievement for Butch Carter. After all, the young coach took the reigns of a 16-win team and in two short seasons finished with a 45-37 record and a playoff berth. However, the pressure of this larger stage clearly overwhelmed Carter, who subsequently acted out in a sequence of increasingly bizarre ways. When the dust settled, the Raptors found themselves swept out of the playoffs, and Butch found himself out of a job.

    But what I fear is lost on the casual fan is not only the tragic scale of this Dubious Moment, but the complexity of Butch Carter himself. To illustrate, The Flagrancy contrasts the actions of Butch Carter against one of the most tragic of figures ever: Hamlet.

    Source: The Flagrancy

    I really wish these guy didn't let their site die. Very entertaining.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Butch Carter, eh? Dam. I was wondering if anyone would pick him.
    That guy had balls man. He said and did some things that I couldn't believe even back then.
    Suing Camby for calling him a liar? RIGHT before the first Playoff series in Team History. Ridiculous.
    Calling out MLSE for not "caring about basketball in a hockey town". RIGHT after they give him a contract extension. AND trading for Seasoned Vets that would eventually lead us to actually win a playoff game.

    He was GOOD as a coach, but man, he couldn't shut his mouth! haha


    As for Malone, I am a BIG fan. Totally should have included him up there with the rest.



    ADD That bit on Butch is AWESOME.
    So true. He was a dubious motherf*cker. hahah
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Exactly. No one was more entertaining. Sam tried his best and was certainly good for some nice sound bytes.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Exactly. No one was more entertaining. Sam tried his best and was certainly good for some nice sound bytes.
    True.
    But seriously, Sam held the players to a much higher standard than, really, any other coach in History. Brendan Malone got alot out of his players, but so did Sam. Or at least he demanded alot out of his players. And I think, for the most part, he had their respect and their attention when he spoke.

    When Jay is a timeout you can almost see the players laughing at him when he tries to be 'tough'.

    ADD Sam Mitchell said "Theres something faggity in the air."?? Seriously?!?
    Wowzers. Still.. I like him. haha
    Last edited by Joey; Tue May 31st, 2011 at 08:21 PM.
    In Masai we Trust.

  11. #11
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Work hard on defense and the boards and don't take bad shots. That sounds like a fair standard to me. He came down hard on lazy people and he can down hard on guys who took bad shots or made other bone headed mistakes. I like tough coaches so maybe I'm biased. The guys he really drilled have gone on to continue to have the same deficiencies to this day that he had tried to drill out of them. They have now proven that they're lost causes to varying degrees. He gave Joey Graham all the chances in the world and not for the life of him could he muster any more than one excellent game, two good games and seven absolutely horrible games in a ten game period. He also did everything he could for Bargnani but that guys is as soft as they come. He couldn't handle the same methods Sam used on Chris Bosh that made the guy an all-star.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Work hard on defense and the boards and don't take bad shots. That sounds like a fair standard to me. He came down hard on lazy people and he can down hard on guys who took bad shots or made other bone headed mistakes.
    Ya he didn't like Jamario Moon very much.
    I can't even count how many times Jamario got pulled RIGHT after shooting a 3 ball. Even if he made it. haha


    But ya, I still can't believe that Sam Mitchell hasn't been hired on as a Head Coach somewhere. He is Old School, all the way.
    Come to think of it, the only one that has gone on to Coach after coaching the Raptors is Lenny. And he was pretty horrid with New York.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    ARGH! The coaching history of this franchise is so awful it gives me Nam-like flashbacks just thinking about it. Thanks Apollo. Plus, referencing The Flagrancy is awesome. That was the best Raptors site back in the day. Whatever happened to those guys?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    ARGH! The coaching history of this franchise is so awful it gives me Nam-like flashbacks just thinking about it. Thanks Apollo. Plus, referencing The Flagrancy is awesome. That was the best Raptors site back in the day. Whatever happened to those guys?
    This video from Flagrancy I'm sure will sum up your frustration:



    Ignore the parts about the contest obviously.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    I guess I go with Smitch as best coach if I had to choose one, but it's almost like being the smartest kid on the short yellow bus...

    Now, if we could get a combination of JT's offense and Kevin O'Neill's defense, we should become perennial contenders. Right? All in favour of bringing K.O. back to coach some D, gimme an "Oh Hell Yea!" and clap your Steveweisers together!
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Kevin O'Neill is a Rooty Poo, Candy Ass Jabroni.

    But I'm pretty sure he's actually got a pretty coushy NCAA job.
    In Masai we Trust.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Kevin O'Neill is a Rooty Poo, Candy Ass Jabroni.

    But I'm pretty sure he's actually got a pretty coushy NCAA job.
    I know, I'd just like some of that D instilled in this team, rather than another year of Jay preaching defense first and still finishing towards the bottom of the league.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    I know, I'd just like some of that D instilled in this team, rather than another year of Jay preaching defense first and still finishing towards the bottom of the league.
    Also true. I just remember K.O. standing at Half Court YELLING what play to run, every time up and down the floor. It'd take 10 seconds just to figure what they were doing! haha
    In Masai we Trust.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    My fave was Sam. I liked Butch too, but the drama around the PO`s and his insistence that he could deliver Tmac creeped me out.

    (As far as assistants go, I really liked Jim Todd)

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
    My fave was Sam. I liked Butch too, but the drama around the PO`s and his insistence that he could deliver Tmac creeped me out.

    (As far as assistants go, I really liked Jim Todd)
    Great call on Jim Todd. Didn't even mention him.

    As far as Assistants go.. I'd say Jay. haha
    In Masai we Trust.

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