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Thread: Barbosa is looking at Brazilian team offers

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    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Default Barbosa is looking at Brazilian team offers

    Apparently hoopshype is saying barbosa might opt out of his contract and try signing for a team in Brazil. He probably is worried about a lockout and figures he is better off playing there. as great of a player barbosa is i wouldnt mid if he opted out. Raps would save alot and nmight be able to get a better player in FA.

    SOURCE :

    http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra ... an-option/

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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    Apparently hoopshype is saying barbosa might opt out of his contract and try signing for a team in Brazil. He probably is worried about a lockout and figures he is better off playing there. as great of a player barbosa is i wouldnt mid if he opted out. Raps would save alot and nmight be able to get a better player in FA.

    SOURCE :

    http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra ... an-option/
    The Raptors won't get a better free agent than Barbosa, and the money the team saves won't matter much. I think he's way, way more valuable to the team as a trade asset at the deadline than as an expiring contract that will allow the Raptors to spend more money on a free agent. Loads of teams will be under the cap and most of them have a better record, roster and situation than Toronto. Good players aren't going to sign with a 22 win team unless you massively overpay them. And even then it's doubtful the Raptors would even make it back to the playoffs, so what's really the point?
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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The Raptors won't get a better free agent than Barbosa, and the money the team saves won't matter much. I think he's way, way more valuable to the team as a trade asset at the deadline than as an expiring contract that will allow the Raptors to spend more money on a free agent. Loads of teams will be under the cap and most of them have a better record, roster and situation than Toronto. Good players aren't going to sign with a 22 win team unless you massively overpay them. And even then it's doubtful the Raptors would even make it back to the playoffs, so what's really the point?
    Yup, except that he should've been dealt last deadline as everyone had hoped. As you said, the Raps aren't in a position to attract major free-agents so the cap room they'd save means little.

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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Yup, except that he should've been dealt last deadline as everyone had hoped. As you said, the Raps aren't in a position to attract major free-agents so the cap room they'd save means little.
    Had he been healthy, I think he would have been dealt. His wrist injury, I think, pretty much killed any chances of getting a half decent return for him. At around the trade deadline, I don't think anyone was even sure he would last the rest of the season.
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Yup, except that he should've been dealt last deadline as everyone had hoped. As you said, the Raps aren't in a position to attract major free-agents so the cap room they'd save means little.
    Except cap room isn't only used to lure free agents. It is also a valuable tool when it comes to completing trades. When teams are over the cap, salaries must match within 125% + 100K. Take $7.6M off the cap and that is $7.6M that does not have to be sent out in a trade.

    Bottom line: cap room is more than free agents.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The Raptors won't get a better free agent than Barbosa
    +1

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The Raptors won't get a better free agent than Barbosa, and the money the team saves won't matter much.
    Tim, you're usually bang on. But last time I checked $7.6 million is a huge number in a declining cap space environment.

    >13% of the current base cap. And the rules will get tighter. This is awfully short-sighted. When the rules change, there won't be as much to throw at FAs.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Loads of teams will be under the cap and most of them have a better record, roster and situation than Toronto. Good players aren't going to sign with a 22 win team unless you massively overpay them.
    Name the ones that can sign a multiple year deal starting at $7.6 million. Name those that are a top city. Name those with a young squad. Name those where the FA will be one of the leaders and get the ball often.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And even then it's doubtful the Raptors would even make it back to the playoffs, so what's really the point?
    This makes me cringe. If you want to build a winner, its not an overnight exercise. You MUST make proper moves now in order to lay a proper foundation if the goal is to win it all for 4-5 years out. And shouldn't that be the goal?!

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    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    Tim, you're usually bang on. But last time I checked $7.6 million is a huge number in a declining cap space environment.

    >13% of the current base cap. And the rules will get tighter. This is awfully short-sighted. When the rules change, there won't be as much to throw at FAs.
    His contract certainly is big, but it's only for one more season. And what kind of splash do you think a 22 win team without a lot of talent (and no All-Star level talent) is going to make on the free agent market? And neither of us know WHAT the landscape will look like with the new CBA. I like having a tradable asset, in Barbosa, far more than the prospect of "financial flexibility" which very well might net you absolutely nothing.

    It's like the old adage, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    Name the ones that can sign a multiple year deal starting at $7.6 million. Name those that are a top city. Name those with a young squad. Name those where the FA will be one of the leaders and get the ball often.
    Denver will be paying $40 million, and that's IF Nene decides not to opt out. They had a far better record and a very respected coach. And they have no one that averaged 20 ppg, last season.

    Houston will have about $45 million (about the same as Toronto), but are a far more respected organization and in a warm climate.

    Indiana will be paying out more than $10 million less than Toronto and made the playoffs this past season.

    The Clippers will be paying out about $44 million, and are in L.A. with the reigning ROY and a lot of buzz for the team.

    Minnesota will be paying out $42 million, but really no one wants to go there.

    New Jersey will be paying out $39 million, are going to move to New York after next season, have a great PG (players like to play with great PGs), a very rich owner and some half decent young talent.

    Sacramento will be paying $44 million, and have more talent than the Raptors, and are in California.

    Washington has a $40 million payroll and a great up and coming PG.

    Basically, I'd put Denver, Houston, Indiana, the Clippers, New Jersey and possibly Washington in line ahead of Toronto. And that's not including the teams that may want to do sign and trades, so don't need to be under the cap.

    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    This makes me cringe. If you want to build a winner, its not an overnight exercise. You MUST make proper moves now in order to lay a proper foundation if the goal is to win it all for 4-5 years out. And shouldn't that be the goal?!
    I agree that building a winner is not an overnight exercise and that's EXACTLY my point! If the Raptors go out and sign a free agent or two this summer, it's a good bet they'll be doing more what New Jersey did last summer, instead of what Miami did. It's a bad idea for a 22 win team without much to attract a free agent to try and go out and spend money. You'll be overspending on players no one else really wanted. And then you're screwed.

    The proper move, in my opinion, is to take your time and worry about cap flexibility when you're in a better position to use it. Keep Barbosa and try and trade him for a draft pick or young prospect before the deadline. Continue to develop young players and don't try and rush into the playoffs with a bunch of mediocre players who won't be able to build on that. Once the Raptors have better talent and a better record, they'll be able to attract a better class of free agent.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    It's like the old adage, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
    I would argue having flexibility NOW is the bird in hand. Else you're *hoping* that some team is willing to give up a great young talent or pick for a 1/2 season of Barbosa? Not that many GMs are that dumb.


    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Basically, I'd put Denver, Houston, Indiana, the Clippers, New Jersey and possibly Washington in line ahead of Toronto. And that's not including the teams that may want to do sign and trades, so don't need to be under the cap.
    You've named teams that are in financial distress and/or have to resign guys (like DeAndre Jordan) And the Raptors would have <$40m committed if Barbosa opted out - less than all those teams except NJ.

    Saving money today gives you flexibility to sign someone this year or next. And, in theory, Barbosa wins you more games - not a good idea going into a strong draft. Having ability to look at free agents twice, rather than once is good.

    Trading at the deadline usually means you take on a multi-year deal. You have to make the salaries match. And you may get lucky, but trading one expiry for another + good young prospect doesn't happen often.

    Flexibility > gambling for good trade at deadline.

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    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    I would argue having flexibility NOW is the bird in hand. Else you're *hoping* that some team is willing to give up a great young talent or pick for a 1/2 season of Barbosa? Not that many GMs are that dumb..
    I'm not expecting a GREAT young talent or high draft pick. But a contender wanting Barbosa for the playoffs and to have a leg up on re-signing him might give up a mid-to-low first round pick or half decent prospect. Or maybe a team looking to add veteran experience and are willing to give up a little something for a playoff push. Worse comes to worse, Barbosa's contract comes off the books next summer, when the Raptors might be in a little better position to attract some talent.

    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    You've named teams that are in financial distress and/or have to resign guys (like DeAndre Jordan) And the Raptors would have <$40m committed if Barbosa opted out - less than all those teams except NJ.
    I don't entirely agree, but one thing for sure is most of those teams are in much more attractive situations than the Raptors are, even if they have less money to spend. Sign and trades are also a possibility, so it's not as if the team with the most cap room wins. Two years ago, the Raptors had cap room and Trevor Ariza took less money to sign for the MLE with Houston.

    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    Saving money today gives you flexibility to sign someone this year or next. And, in theory, Barbosa wins you more games - not a good idea going into a strong draft. Having ability to look at free agents twice, rather than once is good.
    Flexibility only gives you the option to sign someone if you are in an attractive position, which is what this all boils down to. The Raptors have always had trouble attracting free agents, so cap room doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to Toronto as it does to a team like New York, the Lakers or Miami. You can have three chances to look at free agents, but if the better free agents don't want to sign with you then it doesn't really matter.

    Quote Liston wrote: View Post
    Trading at the deadline usually means you take on a multi-year deal. You have to make the salaries match. And you may get lucky, but trading one expiry for another + good young prospect doesn't happen often.

    Flexibility > gambling for good trade at deadline.
    I understand your point, it's just my fear that if the Raptors have lots of cap room, there's a real danger of what happened the summer they signed Turkoglu. They had money to spend and no one wanting it, so they overpaid Turkoglu in order to make some sort of impact. With Colangelo on a two year contract, will he be patient enough to sit on cap room, or will he try and force something? At least with Barbosa, if a good deal doesn't come along, they can just let his deal expire, and they'll have cap room next summer, when they might be in a more attractive position to free agents.
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    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    I was really surprised that he wasn't dealt last deadline too. God knows the Raps weren't going anywhere, and many a playoff team could have used his talents. Would Chicago have rolled over and played dead with Miami if they had Barbosa?
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    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    I was really surprised that he wasn't dealt last deadline too. God knows the Raps weren't going anywhere, and many a playoff team could have used his talents. Would Chicago have rolled over and played dead with Miami if they had Barbosa?
    We probably didn't get the right offer. I'd rather keep him than trade him away for the sake of trading.

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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    Apparently hoopshype is saying barbosa might opt out of his contract and try signing for a team in Brazil. He probably is worried about a lockout and figures he is better off playing there. as great of a player barbosa is i wouldnt mid if he opted out. Raps would save alot and nmight be able to get a better player in FA.

    SOURCE :

    http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/sierra ... an-option/
    Barbosa and/or his agent are leaking rumours to inflate the value of an extension. He is doing what Nene has been doing since the end of the year. Nene went from, "I'll retire if they trade me." to "I don't feel appreciated here and I'm looking to explore my options." Negotiation tactics, nothing more, nothing less.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Barbosa and/or his agent are leaking rumours to inflate the value of an extension. He is doing what Nene has been doing since the end of the year. Nene went from, "I'll retire if they trade me." to "I don't feel appreciated here and I'm looking to explore my options." Negotiation tactics, nothing more, nothing less.
    Agreed 100%. Barbosa is a great player/locker room guy but I'd rather see us invest dollars in veterans who are defensive minded. We can have a few offensive specialist players but Jose, Dre and Barbosa are too much especially on the floor at the same time. Hopefully BC doesn't invest long term dollars in him.

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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Agreed 100%. Barbosa is a great player/locker room guy but I'd rather see us invest dollars in veterans who are defensive minded. We can have a few offensive specialist players but Jose, Dre and Barbosa are too much especially on the floor at the same time. Hopefully BC doesn't invest long term dollars in him.
    Unless Jose and Bargnani are traded. I do like him coming off the bench and I still think if he can ever get healthy he'd be a terror as we saw in glimpses this year, BUT, I do not like him at anything more than $5M per season, longer than a 3 year extension (he'll be 31/32 then), and with weak defensive players such as Bargnani and Calderon.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Do they have a league in Brazil that even comes close to paying him the 7.5 he makes here? If that were the case and I doubt it who wouldnt want to play there and running with all the bunnies on the Copa. What date does he have to declare by?

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Do they have a league in Brazil that even comes close to paying him the 7.5 he makes here? If that were the case and I doubt it who wouldnt want to play there and running with all the bunnies on the Copa. What date does he have to declare by?
    Whatever he makes in Brazil would be more than the zero dollars he'd make if there is a lockout. Plus he'd be at home and not in Canada...

    I would still prefer the Raptors to keep him though. It may save the Raptors some cash, but without an option to splash said cash on, it doesn't make much sense. And really, MLSE's pocket-book isn't very close to the top of my list of priorities for the coming seasons...
    Last edited by star_bury; Fri Jun 10th, 2011 at 11:13 AM.

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    At least it would reduce the number of bad contracts on the roster by one.

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    I don't think barbosa has a "bad" contract. There is only 1 year left (if he picks up his option) @ 7.6 million. It sucks that he has injury problems but that's pretty common and it's only been 1 season. He provides a big spark off the bench in a similar-although not quite as polarized- way that jason terry does: sometimes he does things that are amazing and other times just amazingly stupid. If he recovers from injury well this year he has the potential to earn his contract or come close to it. I also think the expiring contract is more valuable than the cap space, unless a play for nene or gasol is remotely possible. Which it probably isn't. Barbosa is used in a ton of the mock trades we do here and although anecdotal is an indicator of the ability for him to be a a piece that facilitates a trade. I am not overly keen on extending his contract as we can probably get a younger and hopefully cheaper player as a back up to Derozen. However, a 3 year @ 5 mil would be okay by me, and it would also take care of our SG position for the next 3 years provided Derozen sticks around.
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    It's a bad contract because Barbosa currently plays for a 60-loss team, and a team can lose 60 games a lot cheaper.

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