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  • #16
    It's a bad contract because Barbosa currently plays for a 60-loss team, and a team can lose 60 games a lot cheaper.

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    • #17
      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      The Raptors won't get a better free agent than Barbosa, and the money the team saves won't matter much.
      Tim, you're usually bang on. But last time I checked $7.6 million is a huge number in a declining cap space environment.

      >13% of the current base cap. And the rules will get tighter. This is awfully short-sighted. When the rules change, there won't be as much to throw at FAs.[/QUOTE]

      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      Loads of teams will be under the cap and most of them have a better record, roster and situation than Toronto. Good players aren't going to sign with a 22 win team unless you massively overpay them.
      Name the ones that can sign a multiple year deal starting at $7.6 million. Name those that are a top city. Name those with a young squad. Name those where the FA will be one of the leaders and get the ball often.

      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      And even then it's doubtful the Raptors would even make it back to the playoffs, so what's really the point?
      This makes me cringe. If you want to build a winner, its not an overnight exercise. You MUST make proper moves now in order to lay a proper foundation if the goal is to win it all for 4-5 years out. And shouldn't that be the goal?!
      http://twitter.com/Liston

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      • #18
        Liston wrote: View Post
        Tim, you're usually bang on. But last time I checked $7.6 million is a huge number in a declining cap space environment.

        >13% of the current base cap. And the rules will get tighter. This is awfully short-sighted. When the rules change, there won't be as much to throw at FAs.
        His contract certainly is big, but it's only for one more season. And what kind of splash do you think a 22 win team without a lot of talent (and no All-Star level talent) is going to make on the free agent market? And neither of us know WHAT the landscape will look like with the new CBA. I like having a tradable asset, in Barbosa, far more than the prospect of "financial flexibility" which very well might net you absolutely nothing.

        It's like the old adage, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

        Liston wrote: View Post
        Name the ones that can sign a multiple year deal starting at $7.6 million. Name those that are a top city. Name those with a young squad. Name those where the FA will be one of the leaders and get the ball often.
        Denver will be paying $40 million, and that's IF Nene decides not to opt out. They had a far better record and a very respected coach. And they have no one that averaged 20 ppg, last season.

        Houston will have about $45 million (about the same as Toronto), but are a far more respected organization and in a warm climate.

        Indiana will be paying out more than $10 million less than Toronto and made the playoffs this past season.

        The Clippers will be paying out about $44 million, and are in L.A. with the reigning ROY and a lot of buzz for the team.

        Minnesota will be paying out $42 million, but really no one wants to go there.

        New Jersey will be paying out $39 million, are going to move to New York after next season, have a great PG (players like to play with great PGs), a very rich owner and some half decent young talent.

        Sacramento will be paying $44 million, and have more talent than the Raptors, and are in California.

        Washington has a $40 million payroll and a great up and coming PG.

        Basically, I'd put Denver, Houston, Indiana, the Clippers, New Jersey and possibly Washington in line ahead of Toronto. And that's not including the teams that may want to do sign and trades, so don't need to be under the cap.

        Liston wrote: View Post
        This makes me cringe. If you want to build a winner, its not an overnight exercise. You MUST make proper moves now in order to lay a proper foundation if the goal is to win it all for 4-5 years out. And shouldn't that be the goal?!
        I agree that building a winner is not an overnight exercise and that's EXACTLY my point! If the Raptors go out and sign a free agent or two this summer, it's a good bet they'll be doing more what New Jersey did last summer, instead of what Miami did. It's a bad idea for a 22 win team without much to attract a free agent to try and go out and spend money. You'll be overspending on players no one else really wanted. And then you're screwed.

        The proper move, in my opinion, is to take your time and worry about cap flexibility when you're in a better position to use it. Keep Barbosa and try and trade him for a draft pick or young prospect before the deadline. Continue to develop young players and don't try and rush into the playoffs with a bunch of mediocre players who won't be able to build on that. Once the Raptors have better talent and a better record, they'll be able to attract a better class of free agent.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #19
          Tim W. wrote: View Post
          It's like the old adage, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.
          I would argue having flexibility NOW is the bird in hand. Else you're *hoping* that some team is willing to give up a great young talent or pick for a 1/2 season of Barbosa? Not that many GMs are that dumb.


          Tim W. wrote: View Post
          Basically, I'd put Denver, Houston, Indiana, the Clippers, New Jersey and possibly Washington in line ahead of Toronto. And that's not including the teams that may want to do sign and trades, so don't need to be under the cap.
          You've named teams that are in financial distress and/or have to resign guys (like DeAndre Jordan) And the Raptors would have <$40m committed if Barbosa opted out - less than all those teams except NJ.

          Saving money today gives you flexibility to sign someone this year or next. And, in theory, Barbosa wins you more games - not a good idea going into a strong draft. Having ability to look at free agents twice, rather than once is good.

          Trading at the deadline usually means you take on a multi-year deal. You have to make the salaries match. And you may get lucky, but trading one expiry for another + good young prospect doesn't happen often.

          Flexibility > gambling for good trade at deadline.
          http://twitter.com/Liston

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          • #20
            Liston wrote: View Post
            I would argue having flexibility NOW is the bird in hand. Else you're *hoping* that some team is willing to give up a great young talent or pick for a 1/2 season of Barbosa? Not that many GMs are that dumb..
            I'm not expecting a GREAT young talent or high draft pick. But a contender wanting Barbosa for the playoffs and to have a leg up on re-signing him might give up a mid-to-low first round pick or half decent prospect. Or maybe a team looking to add veteran experience and are willing to give up a little something for a playoff push. Worse comes to worse, Barbosa's contract comes off the books next summer, when the Raptors might be in a little better position to attract some talent.

            Liston wrote: View Post
            You've named teams that are in financial distress and/or have to resign guys (like DeAndre Jordan) And the Raptors would have <$40m committed if Barbosa opted out - less than all those teams except NJ.
            I don't entirely agree, but one thing for sure is most of those teams are in much more attractive situations than the Raptors are, even if they have less money to spend. Sign and trades are also a possibility, so it's not as if the team with the most cap room wins. Two years ago, the Raptors had cap room and Trevor Ariza took less money to sign for the MLE with Houston.

            Liston wrote: View Post
            Saving money today gives you flexibility to sign someone this year or next. And, in theory, Barbosa wins you more games - not a good idea going into a strong draft. Having ability to look at free agents twice, rather than once is good.
            Flexibility only gives you the option to sign someone if you are in an attractive position, which is what this all boils down to. The Raptors have always had trouble attracting free agents, so cap room doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to Toronto as it does to a team like New York, the Lakers or Miami. You can have three chances to look at free agents, but if the better free agents don't want to sign with you then it doesn't really matter.

            Liston wrote: View Post
            Trading at the deadline usually means you take on a multi-year deal. You have to make the salaries match. And you may get lucky, but trading one expiry for another + good young prospect doesn't happen often.

            Flexibility > gambling for good trade at deadline.
            I understand your point, it's just my fear that if the Raptors have lots of cap room, there's a real danger of what happened the summer they signed Turkoglu. They had money to spend and no one wanting it, so they overpaid Turkoglu in order to make some sort of impact. With Colangelo on a two year contract, will he be patient enough to sit on cap room, or will he try and force something? At least with Barbosa, if a good deal doesn't come along, they can just let his deal expire, and they'll have cap room next summer, when they might be in a more attractive position to free agents.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
            Follow me on Twitter.

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            • #21
              http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle2055376/

              The leading candidate for Barbosa’s services, apparently, is Flamengo, Brazilian basketball champions in 2008 and 2009 who play in Rio de Janeiro. The club’s soccer side recently brought soccer star Ronaldinho back to the fold to finish his career after his run in Europe.

              Another possibility is the Brazilian club Corinthians.
              Raptors president Bryan Colangelo said he just learned of the possibility of Barbosa leaving in recent days: “They are weighing options,” he said via text message from Europe where he’s scouting draft prospects. “There is no word from the agents on that yet.”
              "Adam Smith's invisible hand will do it's job. That will determine where we will go," said Arturo Barbosa via e-mail. “Leandro loves to compete and this competition will be based on a competition in the markets."
              If I am BC, this is where I offer no extension or one for 4 years and $6M for all four years (i.e. $1.5M per season).

              I would much prefer a Wilson Chandler or Arron Afflalo to Barbosa on the free agent market.

              However, cap room is not just about free agents, it would significantly help on the trade front. With him opting out, that is $7.6M in salary the Raps could take from a team over the salary cap without having to send any back.

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              • #22
                Agreed. At this point just let him go. By the time we need him to help the team really contend he'll be too old.
                @sweatpantsjer

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                • #23
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  I understand your point, it's just my fear that if the Raptors have lots of cap room, there's a real danger of what happened the summer they signed Turkoglu. They had money to spend and no one wanting it, so they overpaid Turkoglu in order to make some sort of impact. With Colangelo on a two year contract, will he be patient enough to sit on cap room, or will he try and force something? At least with Barbosa, if a good deal doesn't come along, they can just let his deal expire, and they'll have cap room next summer, when they might be in a more attractive position to free agents.
                  Good point. Makes sense.
                  http://twitter.com/Liston

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