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Ripples From Mavs Win Changing Views?

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  • #31
    Bendit wrote: View Post
    It also increases the odds that he might get better offers!
    Buzz kill! lol

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    • #32
      mountio wrote: View Post
      Exactly. It took totally uncharacteristic performances from their best player (Lebron) in order for another team to even be competitive with them. Thats with less than 12 months to gel an all time bad supporting cast. Everyone is totally overreacting here .. lets not forget they dismantled Bos and Chi just a few weeks ago. They will be the overwhelming favourite to win the title next year (and the year after, and so on). Dissapointing for them - sure .. but no need to panic here ..
      I don't think anyone on this board would actually "panic". Actually, I think 99.9% of this board has a big old shit-eating grin on their face right now after watching LBJ and Bosh get their just desserts! Those two deserved this loss. They treated the fans and organizations that brought them into this league like dirt. Now, look what they got!

      On another note, good luck in getting anyone else to join them after watching the complete melt-down of the self-titled King. If I am a FA this year, I wouldn't be overly-inclined to join that squad. Despite the talent level of the big three, the over-inflated egos are obviously an issue. Eat a slice of humble pie "Big Three"!

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      • #33
        Maleko wrote: View Post
        I think it is more important to look at where the big whatevers play by position. I think it won't work in any situation where the two stars are wings. If at least one of the big is a C, or maybe a PG then that changes things. In light of that, if Howard were to join Wade (or vice-versa) I think it would be powerful. I really think that the Heat would do better trading Lebron than they would trading Bosh. For one they could command a lot more in return, and if they get a guy like Howard for Lebron they would truly be a force, but keeping Wade and Lebron together I think is the one way they will only challenge mediocrity in playoffs for years to come.
        I agree with you 100%. If I was Miami, I'd trade Lebron before I traded Bosh. Not only would he net you more in return, but it's the Lebron/Wade duplication that is the bigger issue. I think a "big 2" would work, as long as one star is a big (C/PF) and the other star is a ball-handling wing (SF/SG/PG).

        In fact, I think it could be argued that the league has seen many "big 2" teams win championship:
        Lakers (Shaq & Kobe)
        Heat (Shaq & Wade)
        Lakers (Gasol & Kobe)
        Rockets (Olajuwon & Drexler)
        Boston (Garnet & Pearce) - Allen had name recognition, but never dominated the ball, he was a good defender and outside shooter to compliment their "big 2"

        If I were Dwight Howard, I'd be licking my lips at the thought of teaming up with D-Will or CP3 in a couple years.


        At the end of the day though, what matters as much as your "big 2" is the supporting cast you have.
        - no big egos; guys who are ok being second fiddle
        - good team defenders with at least 1 solid inside last-line-of-defence type of defender
        - good outside shooting
        Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 13, 2011, 01:06 PM.

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        • #34
          So whos the best team in Texas come next season, if there is one.
          NBADoppelgangers.tumblr.com

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          • #35
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            I agree with you 100%. If I was Miami, I'd trade Lebron before I traded Bosh. Not only would he net you more in return, but it's the Lebron/Wade duplication that is the bigger issue. I think a "big 2" would work, as long as one star is a big (C/PF) and the other star is a ball-handling wing (SF/SG/PG).
            I agree, but the reason I do is because Lebron does not have a post up game. And because of that he needs the ball in his hands. Wade works the best with the ball in his hands, but that makes sense since he is a true shooting guard. Lebron on the other hand can do much more. I'm just not sure if he wants to.

            I saw a lot of Pippen in him, in this series, and in the Chicago series. He is an outstanding defensive player. But if he learned how to be a threat as a post up player, then I think Wade and Lebron can co-exist, and would be very dangerous. If Lebron was coached by the right person (and I think only Phil Jackson or Riley would be those guys), then you don't need to trade the NBA's best player. However if he is unwilling to change, then I'd start looking for trades as well. But to be honest, is that a trade Riley would be willing to make?

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            • #36
              BayCityBaller wrote: View Post
              I don't think anyone on this board would actually "panic". Actually, I think 99.9% of this board has a big old shit-eating grin on their face right now after watching LBJ and Bosh get their just desserts! Those two deserved this loss. They treated the fans and organizations that brought them into this league like dirt. Now, look what they got!

              On another note, good luck in getting anyone else to join them after watching the complete melt-down of the self-titled King. If I am a FA this year, I wouldn't be overly-inclined to join that squad. Despite the talent level of the big three, the over-inflated egos are obviously an issue. Eat a slice of humble pie "Big Three"!
              All very resonable reactions. I think its totally fine to feel great because these guys got what was coming to them given the way they acted. But, thats very different from claiming their model is wrong, they need to make trades or anything of the like. They are the envy of the NBA for the next 5-7 years. They didnt get their first title this year .. but name me a franchise that would trade places with them??

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              • #37
                mountio wrote: View Post
                .....claiming their model is wrong, they need to make trades or anything of the like.
                Addendum to our posts on the main page.

                Their model is flawed. I reiterate, having 2 great wings (plus Bosh) who want the ball in their hands and have yet to overcome the psychological barrier to playing off the ball/deferring yet being effective, no centre defensive presence and no point guard in my view is a flawed team. They ploughed thru the playoffs until the finals because they overcame other more flawed teams thru their sheer talent. Over and above they also need a more effective bench. You may think otherwise but Riley will make/must changes in order to become a more "traditional" team. Other teams are going to learn from what the Mavs did and arent going to just lie down.

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                • #38
                  They're going to trade bosh, just wait.
                  @sweatpantsjer

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                  • #39
                    planetmars wrote: View Post
                    I agree, but the reason I do is because Lebron does not have a post up game. And because of that he needs the ball in his hands. Wade works the best with the ball in his hands, but that makes sense since he is a true shooting guard. Lebron on the other hand can do much more. I'm just not sure if he wants to.

                    I saw a lot of Pippen in him, in this series, and in the Chicago series. He is an outstanding defensive player. But if he learned how to be a threat as a post up player, then I think Wade and Lebron can co-exist, and would be very dangerous. If Lebron was coached by the right person (and I think only Phil Jackson or Riley would be those guys), then you don't need to trade the NBA's best player. However if he is unwilling to change, then I'd start looking for trades as well. But to be honest, is that a trade Riley would be willing to make?
                    If you look at my original post, you'll see that the whole basis for my argument was the fact that both Lebron and Wade NEED to have the ball in their hand and NEED to be the dominant go-to guy. I don't think they will ever adapt, as this is how they have always suceeded in basketball and it is their natural instinct and their greatest strength. To force them to play another way would stifle their basketball skills and natural tendencies on the court, essentially making them less of a player. I think that the team concept is more important than a "team" of individual stars who don't have the skills/personalities to mesh together. Superstars can play together, but they will each be sacrificing part of what made them a superstar in the first place.

                    If you're making Lebron play like somebody other than Lebron, why keep Lebron? For his salary you could get several great players who could effectively play multiple positions and gel with the team much more effectively and lots of draft picks to stock up on cheap, good, young talent to help sustain a solid team for years to come.

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                    • #40
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      If you look at my original post, you'll see that the whole basis for my argument was the fact that both Lebron and Wade NEED to have the ball in their hand and NEED to be the dominant go-to guy. I don't think they will ever adapt, as this is how they have always suceeded in basketball and it is their natural instinct and their greatest strength. To force them to play another way would stifle their basketball skills and natural tendencies on the court, essentially making them less of a player. I think that the team concept is more important than a "team" of individual stars who don't have the skills/personalities to mesh together. Superstars can play together, but they will each be sacrificing part of what made them a superstar in the first place.
                      And by your comments this word would actually be 'group', since they would not truly be a team.

                      For his salary you could get several great players who could effectively play multiple positions
                      or perhaps even Dwight...

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                      • #41
                        ceez wrote: View Post
                        They're going to trade bosh, just wait.
                        I think E-Spo is going to get fired eventually, and the team's role players are going to get tossed aside. I don't think the political will is there to punish the SuperFriends to the extent of shipping one of them out. It isn't so much that they all play a similar style, which they do, it's that all of the role players play that style too. In other words, even Haslem, Miller, Chalmers, et al. play like Wade, Bosh and so froth. The roster at large doesn't have any flexibility to it. They can only play the small ball/speed game. And if LeBron is off in space, as he was in the finals for whatever reason, they're vulnerable.

                        So whos the best team in Texas come next season, if there is one.
                        Dallas and its 6 fans have a huge asset, Caron Butler's $10.5 million expiring contract, that they can use to bring in another star. They should be the best Texas team for a couple of years, but by 2k14 they may be the worst team in the league.

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                        • #42
                          not to mention they have corey brewer waiting in the wings. he can start at sf from day 1 next season.
                          @sweatpantsjer

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                          • #43
                            if anything, we've learned cuban is a obnoxious dude, but a master at getting a contender under the salary cap. they'll be good as long as dirk is playing.
                            @sweatpantsjer

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                            • #44
                              I definitely think it changes things. I think it will even impact the heat this off-season. What it says to me is that a strong team beats good individual players. However, when I say strong team, I do not mean just role-players, I mean ex-stars who understand that they can be effective by focusing on a niche. That's what Miami lacks that Dallas has. Miami has superstars LBJ. D-Wade and Shitbag Bosh. Their supporting cast is made up of decent role players like Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Mike Bibby, Anthony, Dampier, etc. They are good role-players. Mavs have a bonifide star in Dirk, and ex-superstar Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, and Jason Terry. Each of them earlier in their careers were superstars who earned trademark nicknames. Rather than continue to pretend they are all-stars (like t-mac and carter did whent hey began to wash up), they refined their games and accepted roles. These roles are needed to make the team operate optimally. The Celtics almost had this model with J-O and Shaq but their superstars (Peirce, KG, Allen) have finally hit the age wall and dont perform at star level anymore. If they could bring in a current superstar (ie. Dwight, Derrick Rose, etc) to partner with their current aging stars, you'd have a guaranteed Celtics chanpionship. To me, the Mavs championship give veterans and aging stars a new role in this league, and a new way to structure a team to win. Miami needs ex-stars who are still playing at a high-level to accept a paycut and a new role in order to move forward. Sorry T-Mac and Vince, too late for you.

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                              • #45
                                This finals, like last finals was vet team versus vet team. That's not the model that the Raptors will or should follow. Rather OKC, Memphis, Atlanta, Chicago is the correct model. A core of all-star young talent surrounded by the right group of vets, with the right coach to coach them.

                                The only thing this changes is that Casey should be introduced as the new coach, by the end of the week.
                                -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                                -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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