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Thread: Does Jose Barea's display open more RR faithful to Kemba?

  1. #61
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    I have to just say that a player's wingspan and reach most definitely are important to whether he can be a good defender. I don't how one can say otherwise. Obviously there are other factors, but you need the physical attributes, as well. Rondo wouldn't be the defender he is if he didn't have such a long wingspan because he wouldn't be able to cause so much havoc. I'm not saying that Rondo wouldn't be a good defender if he had a shorter wingspan, but he's definitely a better defender because of it.

    I'm not saying Kemba can't be a good defender, but he'll have to overcome his rather average wingspan and reach, especially since he doesn't have a lot of height.

    Would anyone be saying that Araujo wasn't at a disadvantage because he had shorter than average arms? Or that Biyombo wouldn't be the prospect he is if he didn't have the wingspan and reach he did?
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  2. #62
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    No offense, Apollo, but I have no idea why you're so persistent in putting words in my mouth. Please quote even one time when I said anything about Kemba's height. Also quote where I said Kemba will be a bad defender. Quote both and not just "paraphrase". I bet you can't. If anything, the bit you quoted has me saying I'm inclined to agree.


    You didn't say Rondo and Walker are the same player, no, nor did I accuse you of saying it. As much as I'd like that crisp $20 bill, I can't possibly win where I have to prove something I didn't say. I'll quote you this one tidbit though:

    He's the same height as Rondo and Rondo is the best defensive PG in the league.
    To me, it sounds like you're saying that because Rondo is the same height, Walker has the same ceiling defensively. If you were being sarcastic, then great, because apparently we're arguing the same point, that height doesn't matter.

    Who's saying he has unlimited potential with no flaw? Are we reading the same posts?
    If you're not saying it, then why are you so upset whenever I express my opinion that I think he'll end up being a very good sixth man on a very good team? You think he has the ceiling of a quality starter on a very good team, fine, we agree to disagree. I don't think Knight will be a starter on a very good team either. Are you going to take offense to that too? If anything, I have to ask you if we are reading the same posts? Because the very next thing in your response goes back to the whole height issue. You can keep confusing me with someone else all you like, because I'm not going to continue playing this game with you. Either quote it or leave it alone.
    Last edited by Quixotic; Wed Jun 15th, 2011 at 05:34 PM.

  3. #63
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I have to just say that a player's wingspan and reach most definitely are important to whether he can be a good defender. I don't how one can say otherwise. Obviously there are other factors, but you need the physical attributes, as well. Rondo wouldn't be the defender he is if he didn't have such a long wingspan because he wouldn't be able to cause so much havoc. I'm not saying that Rondo wouldn't be a good defender if he had a shorter wingspan, but he's definitely a better defender because of it.

    I'm not saying Kemba can't be a good defender, but he'll have to overcome his rather average wingspan and reach, especially since he doesn't have a lot of height.

    Would anyone be saying that Araujo wasn't at a disadvantage because he had shorter than average arms? Or that Biyombo wouldn't be the prospect he is if he didn't have the wingspan and reach he did?
    I think it's like this. Blocks and steals are the glory stats. Rondo gets lots of press for volume stats, the exciting plays but he does a lot of things that makes him good that he could still do without having long arms. Of course size can play a factor but it's not the most important factor. I believe on the perimeter that lateral quickness is far more important. Rondo is one of the fastest guys in the league. I would argue that his foot speed is his biggest advantage over most PG's. My point with Kemba Walker is that he's only an inch below average but he's going to be one of the fastest PG's in the league from day one, has a good track record on defense, prides himself on it and gets excellent marks for being a strong worker both during the game and on the practice court. Being fast and being a hard worker are two important factors and Walker has them. I'm not saying Walker is going to be a top defender but I am saying he has what it takes to come to a team and at least not hurt the team on defense.

    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    To me, it sounds like you're saying that because Rondo is the same height, Walker has the same ceiling defensively. If you were being sarcastic, then great, because apparently we're arguing the same point, that height doesn't matter.
    Then you've taken it out of context. The whole idea of the thread was that Barea is short and he impacted the finals, so that means height shouldn't matter. Then some people came in here and suggested the number 73 means a player can't play defense. I came in and said that Rondo is playing at the number 73 and he's the best defender in the league so there goes that theory.

    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    If you're not saying it, then why are you so upset whenever I express my opinion that I think he'll end up being a very good sixth man on a very good team?
    I express emotion with exclamation marks because there really is no other way to do it besides childish, petty, counter productive name calling. If I were upset it would be obvious. You're misreading me if you think I'm upset. You don't pull the trigger on draft day, Colangelo does. If you want to see an example of me being upset try coming in here on the 23 if Motiejunas' name is called at #5.

    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    You can keep confusing me with someone else all you like, because I'm not going to continue playing this game with you. Either quote it or leave it alone.
    I never said you said it. I thought I said clearly above that I quoted you and addressed that but the post was directed at the whole thread. I covered what you said and moved on in the same post. So all the comments made that had nothing to do with what you said in that particular quote should have been assumed to have nothing to do with what you said. The thread is about a player's height and a lot of the posts are about the number 73 in one way or another. This string with you has been mostly about you saying I'm crazy to compare Rondo and Walker and me saying I'm not, I'm just giving everyone an example of somebody who is not tall but plays good defense; that the notion that some people have in the thread that the number 73 means bad defense is crazy.

  4. #64
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I addressed what you said and moved on. It was directed toward the whole thread. I've been fighting the crazy notion that "73" means bad defense but "75" means good defense.

    To further explain, I'm throwing my opinion out here for all. I just happened to hit quote and comment on something you said before moving along with my thought path.
    Alright, I'll just ignore the whole "No, the idea that the number 73 and nothing more would mean he's destined to be a bench PG is extremely ignorant" bit then and assume you were replying generally. You can feel free to ignore the response I wrote that was submitted before I saw the last bit you added.

    I was a bit frustrated because I'd been fighting the same idea in the Kanter thread that 7'0" means capable of defending a C and 6'11" means he's undersized, when his reach and wingspan are fully within the range for a n average center. Glad we're on the same page then.
    Last edited by Quixotic; Wed Jun 15th, 2011 at 05:42 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I think it's like this. Blocks and steals are the glory stats. Rondo gets lots of press for volume stats, the exciting plays but he does a lot of things that makes him good that he could still do without having long arms. Of course size can play a factor but it's not the most important factor. I believe on the perimeter that lateral quickness is far more important. Rondo is one of the fastest guys in the league. I would argue that his foot speed is his biggest advantage over most PG's. My point with Kemba Walker is that he's only an inch below average but he's going to be one of the fastest PG's in the league from day one, has a good track record on defense, prides himself on it and gets excellent marks for being a strong worker both during the game and on the practice court. Being fast and being a hard worker are two important factors and Walker has them.
    Again, I'm not saying Kemba is going to be a bad defender. I just wanted to dispute the notion that wingspan and reach don't matter on defense, when they obviously do. And it has absolutely nothing to do with blocks and steals. It has to do with simply having a couple of more inches to be able to distract, deflect, whatever. I'm a very good defender, but I can't tell you how many times I would have liked a couple of more inches of reach. Rondo's quickness obviously helps him, but so does his above average wingspan and reach. I'm not sure why you seem to be arguing against this.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I never said you said it. I said clearly above that I quoted you but the post was directed at the whole thread. The thread is about a player's height and a lot of the posts are about the number 73 in one way or another. This string with you has been mostly about you saying I'm crazy to compare Rondo and Walker and me saying I'm not, I'm just giving everyone an example of somebody who is not tall but plays good defense; that the notion that some people have in the thread that the number 73 means bad defense is crazy.
    I hope you realize that when you do an edit, I don't see the revised response 'til after I've posted. So "clearly above" isn't so clear, just like how you missed my response when you edited your post again.

  7. #67
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Rondo's quickness obviously helps him, but so does his above average wingspan and reach. I'm not sure why you seem to be arguing against this.
    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Of course size can play a factor but it's not the most important factor.
    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    Alright, I'll just ignore the whole "No, the idea that the number 73 and nothing more would mean he's destined to be a bench PG is extremely ignorant" bit then and assume you were replying generally. You can feel free to ignore the response I wrote that was submitted before I saw the last bit you added.
    The exact string:

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    I've never said Walker would be a flop; I think he's certainly capable of putting up very good Damon-like numbers on a bad team. Yet it seems the mere idea that he might not be an All-Star starter on a contending team is highly offensive.
    No, the idea that the number 73 and nothing more would mean he's destined to be a bench PG is extremely ignorant.
    Paraphrased:
    Quixotic: You find it offensive if somebody suggests Kemba Walker won't be an all-star
    Apollo: No, I find it offensive when somebody suggests the number 73 means bad defense.

    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    I hope you realize that when you do an edit, I don't see the revised response 'til after I've posted. So "clearly above" isn't so clear, just like how you missed my response when you edited your post again.
    I feel compelled to edit because you're not getting it. I'm trying to make this clear.

    EDIT: The first part of the original quote was directed at you, the rest of that particular post was not. Since then we've been babbling about meaningless nothing.

  8. #68
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    I'm not criticizing your editing, just letting you know that I didn't see your edit until after my post.

    But yes, I understand now that you were just quoting me but not actually saying I was talking about height. To be honest though, it can be confusing because this isn't the first time you responded in similar fashion to one of my posts with my opinion re: Walker. I know you respond to way more posts than just mine, so it's no big deal; just want you to have some context on why I said, "yet it seems the mere idea that he might not be an All-Star starter on a contending team is highly offensive."

  9. #69
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i think the moral of the story is Kemba's going to be a player. if you don't like him, fine, but if you think he's not going to be good you're delusional.
    well said!
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  10. #70
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I would't be upset if the Raptors drafted him, as I think he's got some major skills, but I have some nagging questions about him. I would prefer Kemba over Knight, because I think Kemba's far more of a PG than Knight, and I hate the idea of drafting a guy who needs to learn the PG position. Kanter is my first choice, and a guy I would like to see them actually trade up to try and get, but if they keep the pick and Kanter's gone, then Kemba might be the best choice...

    That pretty much sums up my feelings about this draft!
    All of that is exactly how I feel.

  11. #71
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    Kemba walker is the safest pick for the raps this year, kanter is likely to be taken 3rd or 4th. we just have to get rid of barbose and keep at leat jose and bayless for back up, we already have to many bigs even if we don't have a true center , kemba can shoot the 3, dribble and create for himself, we lacked that kind of player, just remember when tj ford was here .

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