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Thread: Chad Ford Mock Draft 5.0: Raptors still selecting Jan Vesely

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I have no problem taking Vesely, he's an excellent prospect. I don't like him as much as some of the other guys that are available like Leonard or Walker but he's still a great athlete with excellent size. Plus I think BC and the scouts have a much better understanding of what he can do and what kind of work ethic he will bring.
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    On Ford's big board he has Kanter at 5.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I have no problem taking Vesely, he's an excellent prospect. I don't like him as much as some of the other guys that are available like Leonard or Walker but he's still a great athlete with excellent size. Plus I think BC and the scouts have a much better understanding of what he can do and what kind of work ethic he will bring.
    Kelly liked Aurajo and felt Jawai was as good as anyone up to 17th, even went to Australia to see him in person (so got to see him closer than most). They looked shocked, puzzled and humoured when Bryan was asked by Indiana to select Hilbbert. Kelly, our head of scout pumped the way towards a Hoffa selection. He is still here and many of us older fans have a really hard time wondering why. The joke is that he has incriminating photos of Tannenbaum.

    We act like Babcock made that selection on his own, but there was a considerable scouting effort behind him, lead by Kelly. We than put him in a row boat set him out sea as if it was his inexperience and haste that made that fumble, truth was Babcock was just using OUR scouting department.


    This is why I get weary about Vesely. I don't want to just hear about us being high on him. Every Ford mock, it is us. No mention of Vesely by other GM's or their fans. This to me is bothersome and raises some red flags.


    I would like to hear some hype from the other clubs, even clubs below us. Vesely is regarded quite high, he is no Hoffa or Jawai, so I would like to see others being interested in getting him. If he is worth 5th, then this should be easy. Even a willingness by teams below to trade up to take this gem (I hear those scenarios batted around with the other top 5 picks, why not Vesely?). Maybe a post like, "If Toronto is stupid enough to let Vesley slip, we will jump all over him." , unfortunately there is none of that. I have looked and looked, and the interest seems to be pinned to us and our Euro centric focus (another red flag). Again, I am weary that we are being set up to bite on a player that will slip in this draft.


    I would feel a lot more comfortable if the desire for him was as strong as Kanter, or JV, but it has not been... no reports from anyone but us, not saying he is not a great pick, I am just worried that we will be the only club running in his direction when the pistol fires, only to see that there is no one trailing behind us.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Thu Jun 16th, 2011 at 06:15 AM.

  4. #24
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The year Hoffa was selected, Babcock took the job one a week or so before the draft after coming from Minnesota where he served as an assistant. That year the Wolves had a good team and so they weren't expecting to have a shot at anybody who wasn't in the back end of the draft. Because of this they chose not to scout the lottery. So, when Babcock came in here he leaned heavily on the remaining scouts to help him make the decision. It's still his choice to live by, he chose size over the best player available, but you have to think that his scouting department still had a misread on Hoffa and that bad report landed in Babcock's lap. Was that Kelly's fault? Sure, I'll buy that. I also put it on MLSE because they failed to get something done fast enough to give the new GM time to adequately prepare for one of the most important events for a mediocre team trying to not be a mediocre team. They almost did it again this season so props to them for getting their act together.

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    Quote MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
    Kelly liked Aurajo and felt Jawai was as good as anyone up to 17th, even went to Australia to see him in person (so got to see him closer than most). They looked shocked, puzzled and humoured when Bryan was asked by Indiana to select Hilbbert. Kelly, our head of scout pumped the way towards a Hoffa selection. He is still here and many of us older fans have a really hard time wondering why. The joke is that he has incriminating photos of Tannenbaum.

    We act like Babcock made that selection on his own, but there was a considerable scouting effort behind him, lead by Kelly. We than put him in a row boat set him out sea as if it was his inexperience and haste that made that fumble, truth was Babcock was just using OUR scouting department.


    This is why I get weary about Vesely. I don't want to just hear about us being high on him. Every Ford mock, it is us. No mention of Vesely by other GM's or their fans. This to me is bothersome and raises some red flags.


    I would like to hear some hype from the other clubs, even clubs below us. Vesely is regarded quite high, he is no Hoffa or Jawai, so I would like to see others being interested in getting him. If he is worth 5th, then this should be easy. Even a willingness by teams below to trade up to take this gem (I hear those scenarios batted around with the other top 5 picks, why not Vesely?). Maybe a post like, "If Toronto is stupid enough to let Vesley slip, we will jump all over him." , unfortunately there is none of that. I have looked and looked, and the interest seems to be pinned to us and our Euro centric focus (another red flag). Again, I am weary that we are being set up to bite on a player that will slip in this draft.


    I would feel a lot more comfortable if the desire for him was as strong as Kanter, or JV, but it has not been... no reports from anyone but us, not saying he is not a great pick, I am just worried that we will be the only club running in his direction when the pistol fires, only to see that there is no one trailing behind us.
    I think one of the things that's important to keep in mind is that none of the guys likely available to us at 5 are people most teams are really hoping for. A lot of the guys we talk about like Kemba Walker and Kawhi Leonard are not even in the top ten of some mock's and I don't think there is any team out there that is thinking "oh man, if the Raps let Jimmer slip we'll be Golden". The only guys that people might be excited about if we let them slide are Kanter and Knight (Assuming Irving and Williams are both gone). If we take Vesely ahead of either of those two I'll be upset, but if it's between Vesely, Leonard, Walker, and Valciunas I'm good with any of those picks.

    Vesely may slip but it won't be far and I really doubt he makes it out of the top 7 or 8. I've read reports in the past that said the Jazz were considering him for the third pick and it seems that there is a lot of talk about him landing anywhere from 5-8. This mock from NBA.com is an example of both those points

    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

    Vesely is a very good talent by all accounts and I can't help but think a lot of the hate directed at him on these forums is a result of his euroness.
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Vesely is a very good talent by all accounts and I can't help but think a lot of the hate directed at him on these forums is a result of his euroness.
    You are probably right. The disdain should be directed towards his lack of handle, lack of rebounding, and dreadful FT shooting.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You are probably right. The disdain should be directed towards his lack of handle, lack of rebounding, and dreadful FT shooting.
    No rookie is perfect, there are questions about every player in the top ten this season. Vesely is a guy that definately has some problems in his game, but he is also a 6"11' player who has the mobility to play small forward and is always aggressive. He has the potential to either dominate the three with his height or put on some weight and dominate the 4 with his mobility and in either case he would be a good pick for the raps. His shot is bad but is apparently not broken, he justs need practice and a good coach. The rebounding is my biggest concern since he could end up as a four.

    That said, I would definately prefer Leonard.
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    No rookie is perfect, there are questions about every player in the top ten this season. Vesely is a guy that definately has some problems in his game, but he is also a 6"11' player who has the mobility to play small forward and is always aggressive. He has the potential to either dominate the three with his height or put on some weight and dominate the 4 with his mobility and in either case he would be a good pick for the raps. His shot is bad but is apparently not broken, he justs need practice and a good coach. The rebounding is my biggest concern since he could end up as a four.

    That said, I would definately prefer Leonard.
    Is 6'11" a team need?

  9. #29
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    No rookie is perfect, there are questions about every player in the top ten this season. Vesely is a guy that definately has some problems in his game, but he is also a 6"11' player who has the mobility to play small forward and is always aggressive. He has the potential to either dominate the three with his height or put on some weight and dominate the 4 with his mobility and in either case he would be a good pick for the raps. His shot is bad but is apparently not broken, he justs need practice and a good coach. The rebounding is my biggest concern since he could end up as a four.

    That said, I would definately prefer Leonard.
    Vesely looks awesome on YouTube in 27 second clips. There are too many holes in his game for my liking. I'd much rather reach on Kanter, Knight, Walker, or Leonard.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Vesely looks awesome on YouTube in 27 second clips. There are too many holes in his game for my liking. I'd much rather reach on Kanter, Knight, Walker, or Leonard.
    Fair enough, I agree except on Walker. I just think there are too many questions about Walker's ability to defend in the NBA and his questionnable playmaking leaves me with too many doubts.
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Is 6'11" a team need?
    6'11" is always a need. Size matters baby!
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    So where does 6'11" get you in the scenario where player upside doesn't turn into actual ability?

    I think you're left with a guy who can't shoot, who can't handle and who can't defend. A guy like that is no good to you no matter if he 7'11".

    It's a risky pick.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    The year Hoffa was selected, Babcock took the job one a week or so before the draft after coming from Minnesota where he served as an assistant. That year the Wolves had a good team and so they weren't expecting to have a shot at anybody who wasn't in the back end of the draft. Because of this they chose not to scout the lottery. So, when Babcock came in here he leaned heavily on the remaining scouts to help him make the decision. It's still his choice to live by, he chose size over the best player available, but you have to think that his scouting department still had a misread on Hoffa and that bad report landed in Babcock's lap. Was that Kelly's fault? Sure, I'll buy that. I also put it on MLSE because they failed to get something done fast enough to give the new GM time to adequately prepare for one of the most important events for a mediocre team trying to not be a mediocre team. They almost did it again this season so props to them for getting their act together.
    I've never liked passing the blame off Babcock for that draft. No, he didn't scout the players himself, but neither did I, and there's no way I would have let Iguodala go in favour of Araujo. Iguodala was a gift who dropped onto the Raptor's laps and only a fool would have said, "you think I should take this guy slated to be drafted about ten or fifteen picks later because he fills a need? Okay". SHould the blame be shared? Absolutely, but if Babcock knew so little that he agreed to bypass an obviously much better player then he desrves any blame that comes his way.
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    So where does 6'11" get you in the scenario where player upside doesn't turn into actual ability?

    I think you're left with a guy who can't shoot, who can't handle and who can't defend. A guy like that is no good to you no matter if he 7'11".

    It's a risky pick.
    If a guy doesn't actually PLAY like he's 6'11, then his size doesn't really matter. Does Vesley rebound like a 6'11 player? No. And his bigger size actually might be a disadvantage on defense, where he might not have the quickness to keep up with the smaller players. So how is his 6'11ness an advantage?

    (I'm not asking you, Apollo, since you feel the same way. Just backing you up on this point)
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    The whole Euro thing becomes mute when you hear interest in Kanter and JV. The fact that Ford always has us selecting him compounded by the fact that I don't see him mentioned as a pick by the other teams has me a bit disturbed.


    Statistically speaking, I would like to hear more noise about the kid from other camps. His size and FT shooting bother me. The game is so much faster and the players are much stronger at this level.


    Anyway, I don't think my criteria is solid enough to dismiss him, but it is a little suspicious to me that after 5 Ford mocks we are still at Vesely and I hear so little in other camps about him. I would feel more comfortable if his name received a little more wear and tear by the other teams that are selecting near us.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Thu Jun 16th, 2011 at 11:54 AM.

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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post

    http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

    Vesely is a very good talent by all accounts and I can't help but think a lot of the hate directed at him on these forums is a result of his euroness.
    My first choice has always been Kanter and last I checked, he was from Europe. What does Vesely bring that the Raptors don't already have. Size? We've got that. Energy? Ditto. Athleticism? Not a problem.

    The Raptors need a good wing defender who has a reliable shooting game, and a centre who can control the paint and the glass on both ends of the floor. Vesely doesn't bring these traits. It has nothing to do with him being European.
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    This from his chat wrap that just finished:
    Allan (Toronto)


    Where do you see the Raptors going with their pick?
    Chad Ford
    (1:10 PM)


    A very tough call. If Brandon Knight is still on the board, I think that will be the pick. If he's not, sounds like Kanter, Vesely, Kawhi Leonard & Kemba Walker are in the mix. Not sure which way they are leaning. If it was me ... I'd take Leonard here.
    I think he's covering all his bases there. haha
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    So guys, there's this question I have that's been keeping me up at night. I was wondering if someone can help. Is it:

    1. Vuh-SEE-lee
    2. VES-lee
    3. Vuh-SLEE
    4. Vee-suh-lee
    5. Vuh-SEL-ee
    6. VAS-lee

    ???

    And just to confirm.. "Jan Vesely" -- his name translated to English is "John Merry".
    Last edited by ebrian; Thu Jun 16th, 2011 at 03:58 PM.

  19. #39
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    VeSilly. That's Colangelo's new name if he takes this guy 5th overall.

    John Merry is kind of catchy. Kind of has that Chuck Berry ring to it.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jun 16th, 2011 at 04:30 PM. Reason: iphone

  20. #40
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    if we come away from the draft with only vesely i'm done
    @jerboat

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