Kanter's Age?

[Tim W.]

You think Ed is enough shot blocking to anchor a defense? I'm high on Kantar as well just don't see him as sure of a thing as others. With that being said I definitely think we need more shot blocking not only from the center position but from the wing. Depending on one guy (averaged 1.03 blocks per game) isn't enough to intimidate any team. Amir and JJ both blocked shots at a more efficient pace then Davis but haven't got any press.

As planetmars stated, shotblocking is overrated. It's a nice thing to have, but you can have great defense without shotblocking and a lot of shotblocking with horrible defense. JaVale McGee is a great shotblocker, but not a good defender. And lots of teams have been good defensively without a lot of shotblocking. WHat's far more important than shotblocking is team defense. And I think Kanter can become a good team defender.

Besides, Davis has the making of an elite defender and a top shotblocker in the league. And I think he and Kanter would compliment each other perfectly.

[RAPresenting]

As planetmars stated, shotblocking is overrated. It's a nice thing to have, but you can have great defense without shotblocking and a lot of shotblocking with horrible defense. JaVale McGee is a great shotblocker, but not a good defender. And lots of teams have been good defensively without a lot of shotblocking. WHat's far more important than shotblocking is team defense. And I think Kanter can become a good team defender.

Besides, Davis has the making of an elite defender and a top shotblocker in the league. And I think he and Kanter would compliment each other perfectly.

I agree with some of the comments regarding shot blocking but not entirely. Miami has great perimeter defenders in Wade/James but what also helps there defense is Anthony, Wade and LBJ's abilities to block/alter shots. Boston's D starts with Rondo but KG, Jermaine are more then capable of blocking shots and their defense was miles better with a shot blocking center in Perk. Dwight wins multiple defensive player of the year awards but I guess shot blocking has nothing to do with it right? I'm not saying shot blocking is everything but all the best defending teams have guy(s) who do it at a much better rate then our team.

[RAPresenting]

Often a blocked shot goes to the offensive team or out of bounds and is given back to the offensive team. For that reason I have to agree with you. If you can block shots and intentionally have them end up in your teams' possession then you have a skill that makes a difference.

Agree a blocked shot doesn't always translate into a stop BUT it serves it's purpose as protecting the rim, no easy buckets, forces players to release quicker on shots and can start the fast break leading to easy buckets. Not essential if your team has great perimeter D (which we're arguably the worst in the league) but when teams get into the paint it's nice to have someone/multiples who is/are intimidating.

[RaptorDan]

The Raptors don't have to worry about shot blocking - we have Alabi!

[Tim W.]

I agree with some of the comments regarding shot blocking but not entirely. Miami has great perimeter defenders in Wade/James but what also helps there defense is Anthony, Wade and LBJ's abilities to block/alter shots. Boston's D starts with Rondo but KG, Jermaine are more then capable of blocking shots and their defense was miles better with a shot blocking center in Perk. Dwight wins multiple defensive player of the year awards but I guess shot blocking has nothing to do with it right? I'm not saying shot blocking is everything but all the best defending teams have guy(s) who do it at a much better rate then our team.

Washington was the best shotblocking team in the NBA last season, but one of the worst defensively. Boston was one of the worst shotblocking teams in the league, yet were one of the best defensively. I said it's nice to have, but you don't necessarily need it. Dwight Howard winning multiple Defensive Player of the Year Awards most definitely has something to do with his shotblocking, in part because it's voted on by sportswriters, many of whom put far too much weight on shotblocking. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he'd be a good defender even if he wasn't nearly the shotblocker he is.

Anderson Varejao was the anchor of one of the best defenses, but until this year (in which he didn't even play half of it) he'd never even averaged a block a game, yet last year he made the All-Defensive 2nd team. Give me Varejao over McGee any day of the week.

[RAPresenting]

Washington was the best shotblocking team in the NBA last season, but one of the worst defensively. Boston was one of the worst shotblocking teams in the league, yet were one of the best defensively. I said it's nice to have, but you don't necessarily need it. Dwight Howard winning multiple Defensive Player of the Year Awards most definitely has something to do with his shotblocking, in part because it's voted on by sportswriters, many of whom put far too much weight on shotblocking. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, but he'd be a good defender even if he wasn't nearly the shotblocker he is.

Anderson Varejao was the anchor of one of the best defenses, but until this year (in which he didn't even play half of it) he'd never even averaged a block a game, yet last year he made the All-Defensive 2nd team. Give me Varejao over McGee any day of the week.

Top 10 defensive teams (Points against) this year were Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, Orlando, New Orleans, Miami, Portland, Lakers, Atlanta and Dallas. Of these 10 team which one doesn't have a shot blocking center?

Top 10 defensive teams (opponent FG%) this year were Chicago, Boston, Miami, Orlando, Lakers, Milwaukee, Indiana, Dallas, 76ers and Charlotte. Do you see a pattern of shot blocking centers in this group as well?

Overrated perhaps but one would argue two very important defensive categories have shot blocking centers involved in their success.

[Tim W.]

Top 10 defensive teams (Points against) this year were Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, Orlando, New Orleans, Miami, Portland, Lakers, Atlanta and Dallas. Of these 10 team which one doesn't have a shot blocking center?

Top 10 defensive teams (opponent FG%) this year were Chicago, Boston, Miami, Orlando, Lakers, Milwaukee, Indiana, Dallas, 76ers and Charlotte. Do you see a pattern of shot blocking centers in this group as well?

Overrated perhaps but one would argue two very important defensive categories have shot blocking centers involved in their success.

Okay, let's look at this the other way. According to Basketball-Reference.com, the 10 worst defensive teams in the league this past season were Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Golden State, Phoenix, Washington, Utah, New York, New Jersey and Sacramento. On those teams were some of the best shotblocking centers in the league, including McGee, Dark Milicic, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson (all four in the top 10), Brook Lopez, Samuel Dalembert, Marcin Gortat, Channing Frye and Ben Wallace.

As I said, shotblocking is nice, but it doesn't necessarily make you a good defensive team. The 89-90 Pistons were one of the best defensive teams in the league, and they had Bill Laimbeer as their center, who averaged less than a block a game over his career and was never once one of the leagues better shotblockers.

[RAPresenting]

Okay, let's look at this the other way. According to Basketball-Reference.com, the 10 worst defensive teams in the league this past season were Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, Golden State, Phoenix, Washington, Utah, New York, New Jersey and Sacramento. On those teams were some of the best shotblocking centers in the league, including McGee, Dark Milicic, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson (all four in the top 10), Brook Lopez, Samuel Dalembert, Marcin Gortat, Channing Frye and Ben Wallace.

As I said, shotblocking is nice, but it doesn't necessarily make you a good defensive team. The 89-90 Pistons were one of the best defensive teams in the league, and they had Bill Laimbeer as their center, who averaged less than a block a game over his career and was never once one of the leagues better shotblockers.

Different outlooks on life right? Glass half full or half empty? Your arguing your point saying shot blocking is over rated based on 4 players in the top 10 for league blocks on bad defensive overall defensive teams. My point was that all of the top defensive teams in the league have a shot blocking center (and in most cases multiple shot blockers). I think blocking/altering shots is a big part of defense, while your saying it's over rated and isn't necessary.

As for the reference to 89-90 that's completely irrelevant to today's game. Hand checking was allowed and was more physical allowing less penetration. Also to compare athlete now and then is down right silly. The size, strength and speed of the players now make the game totally different so not sure how that reference to 89-90 has any value in this discussion.

[Tim W.]

Different outlooks on life right? Glass half full or half empty? Your arguing your point saying shot blocking is over rated based on 4 players in the top 10 for league blocks on bad defensive overall defensive teams. My point was that all of the top defensive teams in the league have a shot blocking center (and in most cases multiple shot blockers). I think blocking/altering shots is a big part of defense, while your saying it's over rated and isn't necessary.

As for the reference to 89-90 that's completely irrelevant to today's game. Hand checking was allowed and was more physical allowing less penetration. Also to compare athlete now and then is down right silly. The size, strength and speed of the players now make the game totally different so not sure how that reference to 89-90 has any value in this discussion.

It's not just based on 4 players in the top 10. It's based on the other teams as well, as well as 25 years, or so, of following and studying the league and of playing the game. Shotblocking is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't necessarily mean good defense, and in fact you can have good defense without shotblocking. The two are not necessarily interconnected, and that was my point.

You were trying to prove your point by bringing up incomplete evidence. I was simply saying a closer look at the evidence will tell you that the evidence doesn't seem to indicate exactly what you say it does.

As for whether the game in 89-90 has any place in this discussion, well, it's still the NBA. Basketball hasn't changed that much since then. The handchecking rule doesn't make shotblocking more important now than 20 years ago. It helps perimeter players on the offensive end, but then and now you still needed your interior defense to be the last line of defense. And while players are bigger and stronger, that doesn't mean shotblocking is needed anymore. THAT is a silly argument.

[jbml]

That wasn't Givony. It was a guy named Chris Denker. And I really know nothing about him, but from what I heard on the podcast, I'm not extremely impressed with him, quite frankly.

???
http://www.draftexpress.com/podcast/draftexpress_44.mp3

He said he was Givony, the interviewer identified him as Givony

[jbml]

Wizards’ workout with Enes Kanter goes “very, very well”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...7KZH_blog.html

[Tim W.]

???
http://www.draftexpress.com/podcast/draftexpress_44.mp3

He said he was Givony, the interviewer identified him as Givony

We're obviously talking about two different podcasts. The podcast I was referring to where the guy questioned Kanter's age is this one:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/06/1...ciunas-buyout/

[Beaverboi]

Often a blocked shot goes to the offensive team or out of bounds and is given back to the offensive team. For that reason I have to agree with you. If you can block shots and intentionally have them end up in your teams' possession then you have a skill that makes a difference.

True. I would much rather have lane intimidation over blocked shots. You get your shot blocked, you may be on the wrong end of a highlight. You go against Garnett, you may end up eating the floor.

[MyMomLovesMe]

He does not have the mobility to be a good defender. European competition hides horrible defenders. They are just not good in that department.


Their league is super behind in playing defence. Their fans do not know what it is, they beat drums and act silly in the stands like it is a soccer game, half of them are too drunk to see how the game is played without the ball. They only understand baskets.

[Tim W.]

He does not have the mobility to be a good defender. European competition hides horrible defenders. They are just not good in that department.


Their league is super behind in playing defence. Their fans do not know what it is, they beat drums and act silly in the stands like it is a soccer game, half of them are too drunk to see how the game is played without the ball. They only understand baskets.

Care to stereotype a bit more. As for Kanter's mobility, have you seen him play? He seems pretty damn mobile to me.

[MyMomLovesMe]

It's not a stereo type its a fact. I am sorry about that, but the defence is awful in the eurolegue. Just horrible, for guys like me the league is unwatchable, I like my D. Seriously have you watched their games? Can you serious tell me they play good D? Because I have tried and I have turned off my TV multiple times.


...but that is not the key issues that makes me hate the eurolegue. The main issue is that they are not durable. 82 games is a lot, guys like Garbajosa just cant do it, Jose can't do it. It's a hard league. Euro players need to pull a hedo, or go limp.

EDIT: Listen, take it the way you want to. I have a lot respect for the NBA, half these guys could not get off the shots that they make in the eurolegue. Dirk told the truth after his rookie year, its VERY different.

[RAPresenting]

It's not just based on 4 players in the top 10. It's based on the other teams as well, as well as 25 years, or so, of following and studying the league and of playing the game. Shotblocking is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't necessarily mean good defense, and in fact you can have good defense without shotblocking. The two are not necessarily interconnected, and that was my point.

You were trying to prove your point by bringing up incomplete evidence. I was simply saying a closer look at the evidence will tell you that the evidence doesn't seem to indicate exactly what you say it does.

As for whether the game in 89-90 has any place in this discussion, well, it's still the NBA. Basketball hasn't changed that much since then. The handchecking rule doesn't make shotblocking more important now than 20 years ago. It helps perimeter players on the offensive end, but then and now you still needed your interior defense to be the last line of defense. And while players are bigger and stronger, that doesn't mean shotblocking is needed anymore. THAT is a silly argument.

When did I say it's imperative or the only way to get a stop? Did I ever say to be a good defensive team you have to block shots? I was simply saying it was a key component to most successful defenses disagreeing to your belief that it's not. Based on teams that have won rings and been ranked high in defensive categories having someone to protect the paint is almost always involved. Of course there are teams here and there that don't have one but the MAJORITY do who have success on the defensive side of the ball.

The reason why I think the hand checking rule does make lane intimidation more important is players can get into the lane much easier and more frequent now. With players in the paint more often do you not see that as a higher importance to have someone in there to protect it?

It's probley best to agree to disagree at this point.

[Tim W.]

I never claimed you said shotblocking is the only way to get a stop. I simply disagreed with your argument that it's a key component to a successful defense. I think it's OFTEN involved, but you have to realize that a guy like Dwight Howard only blocked 2.4 shots this past season. That's not really a whole lot. Especially considering that probably only half of those shots were going to go in, anyway. So, in other words, Howard's blocks only prevented probably 3 points a game. And while there are obviously others that he altered, simple team and man-to-man defense prevented more baskets than his blocks.

As for the difference between then and now, the top 5 shot blockers this past year blocked 2.6, 2.4, 2.4, 2.4 and 2.0. In 1990, the top 5 shot blockers blocked 4.6, 4.0, 3.9, 3.2 and 2.6. The average team this past year blocked 399 shots. In 1990, they blocked 415 shots. If it's easier to get into the paint more now, someone forgot to tell the shotblockers.

[dzoni71]

It's not a stereo type its a fact. I am sorry about that, but the defence is awful in the eurolegue. Just horrible, for guys like me the league is unwatchable, I like my D. Seriously have you watched their games? Can you serious tell me they play good D? Because I have tried and I have turned off my TV multiple times.

I live in Europe and watch Euroleague all the time, but really can't understand where this is coming from? I would fully agree that the Euro b-ball players are much less athletic so the games lack extraordinary plays as in the NBA. If this is your argument and because of it you cannot watch Euroleague, I'm OK with that. But, saying the defense is that bad is totally wrong. We can argue have you watched this game, or this team, and I couldn't convince you, so how about this...
If the NBA was so dominant defensively, a team made of the best NBA players could beat Europe's top teams at will? I hope this is a reasonable argument? Well in the last 10 years there were 3 FIBA World Championships and 2 Olympic games and Team USA lost during these tournaments a total of 7 seven times!!! Not once, not twice, but seven!!! I could understand that once or twice could be an accident, but losing to a number of teams such as Argentina, Spain, Greece, Lithuania, Yugoslavia is no coincidence.
I'm with Tim W. on this one great shotblocking and athletic ability doesn't always correspond to great defense. Helps definitely. Perfect example was Garbahosa, he clearly wasn't much of a shot-blocker, certainly wasn't a leaper, but any reasonable guy would say he was a heck of a defender. There are a number of players in the Euroleague that fit this mold, great defenders, but you won't see them in the game highlights.

[RAPresenting]

I never claimed you said shotblocking is the only way to get a stop. I simply disagreed with your argument that it's a key component to a successful defense. I think it's OFTEN involved, but you have to realize that a guy like Dwight Howard only blocked 2.4 shots this past season. That's not really a whole lot. Especially considering that probably only half of those shots were going to go in, anyway. So, in other words, Howard's blocks only prevented probably 3 points a game. And while there are obviously others that he altered, simple team and man-to-man defense prevented more baskets than his blocks.

As for the difference between then and now, the top 5 shot blockers this past year blocked 2.6, 2.4, 2.4, 2.4 and 2.0. In 1990, the top 5 shot blockers blocked 4.6, 4.0, 3.9, 3.2 and 2.6. The average team this past year blocked 399 shots. In 1990, they blocked 415 shots. If it's easier to get into the paint more now, someone forgot to tell the shotblockers.

My argument was that it is often involved with teams that have success. There are ways around it no doubt and some teams have proven it not to be necessary. My point was the majority do and I feel the Raptors as a whole could use it. Especially with our lack of quality perimeter defenders having an intimidating guy in the middle would give our defense a much needed boost.

As for the comment involving Dwight and his 2.4 blocks a game only effecting the score by 3 points a game...... It's his skill of blocking shots that alter many more, force turn overs and keep guys out of the lane. The 2.4 is simply the icing on the cake of him as an intimidating rim defender (shot blocker). And his skill of shot blocking contributes to much much more then 3 points per game.

Impressive stats from 1990 to be honest you definitely put in your time to research and it's appreciated (no sarcasm be the way). I have a question for you though. In your experience is it easier to block a shot of a player who is off balance or one who is balanced going up strong?