Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 82

Thread: #5 for #12 and Al Jefferson/Paul Milsap. Potential Utah-Toronto Draft Day trade.

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    No...this trade is a bad idea.

    First off, there's no guarantee that Biyombo will be available at 12. The trade as such is contingent upon the Raptors drafting a player they intend to trade - but only if another player they want is available 7 picks later? Stupid draft strategy. What if Biyombo goes to Detroit? Does that mean the Raps are stuck with Knight? If so, Knight would be the wrong player to take at 5.

    Also, the crazy PF logjam is actually made worse with this trade, which doesn't address any of the Raptors real needs. Unless they try Millsap at the 3, but that's not a good idea. He's too slow there. And even if he did play the 4, I like Davis better. Millsap's defensivee numbers are equal to those on offense, which makes his contribution basically nil.

    Or they get Jefferson, but for all the frustration fans have with Bargnani, why would we want another player who doesn't play defense? And the salaries don't match here at all. So unless there's another team or other players involved, it can't be Jefferson. So it's Millsap.

    Just a bad trade.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    79
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default No Way...Al Jefferson...no way!!!

    Wow. I can't believe some really think this is a good trade. Al is well known as a malcontent. Why introduce something llike this to the locker room? I'd much rather we find a bruiser to play alongsided Bargnani. a REAL center!

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    768
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i kinda like this trade but i wouldnt want milsap. al jefferson is still relativly young at age 26. so we are still continuing the youth movement. jefferson is also better then anyone in the draft at this point.plus if we get the 12th pick we can grab a player of better quality for that selection. i think somone will dopossibly drop to 12. possibly drop like leonard, biyombo, thompson, vesley or fredette . you never know either, jefferson could have a great year and turn into a great trade piece next year or near the end of his contract.
    Last edited by pesterm1; Mon Jun 20th, 2011 at 08:40 AM.

  4. #24
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default There will not be a log jam...

    I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah. Amir Johnson is an excellent 6th man. Reggie is a free agent. Bargnani's days are probably numbered. Where's the log jam? Good teams have depth.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter GameBreaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    www.myspace.com/adversareeteamfresh
    Posts
    354
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah. Amir Johnson is an excellent 6th man. Reggie is a free agent. Bargnani's days are probably numbered. Where's the log jam? Good teams have depth.
    Co-sign.
    The NBA Larry O'Brien Trophy's 'Big Decision': "This is hard..(smiling)...but..I've decided to take my talents to North Texas, to join The Dallas Mavericks.


    "My Gladiator verses VS. what ya verse says"--Adversaree
    Check out my song "Beat Fighter 2010" (prod. by Pete Cannon)
    www.myspace.com/adversareeteamfresh
    http://www.youtube.com/user/adversaree
    http://twitter.com/#!/GiftOfSpeech (Twitter)

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Colborne, ON
    Posts
    242
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah. Amir Johnson is an excellent 6th man. Reggie is a free agent. Bargnani's days are probably numbered. Where's the log jam? Good teams have depth.
    Agree 100%. He will get beat up a bit his next year or two, but then it will be his turn to beat up the new rooks. There aren't that many bruising SCORING c's in the league. Give the dude a shot. Really, how is his frame that different than Noah's?

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I just checked out Jefferson's numbers per 48 and compared those with the numbers of his opponents.

    At C, Jefferson's PER per48 is 24.4 (outstanding), whereas his Opp. PER is only 16.6 (much better than I thought).

    To compare Jefferson's Opp. PER, here are the numbers of some other Centers around the league:

    Nene: 18.2
    T.Chandler: 17.4
    Aldridge: 16.1
    Bargnani: 21.1

    According to the PER Jefferson plays defensively as well or better than Nene, Lamarcus Aldridge and Tyson Chandler. He's not an elite defender, but he's certainly capable and is actually better than most.

    He's also a significant upgrade, defensively speaking, over Andrea Bargnani. Given that he outrebounds Bargnani, scores more efficiently and blocks way more shots, I'd say he's a massive upgrade at the 5. Paired with Davis at the 4 it might actually be a pretty excellent frontcourt down the line.

    Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, financially the trade with Jefferson as the incoming player is impossible unless there's more to it. So, again, at this point it can't be Jefferson, but has to be Milsap.

    And then, to counter Apollo's recent post,

    I'm not sure why some people can't come to terms with the idea of Ed Davis playing center. If he adds the 20lbs of muscle he and his father are promising then he comes to camp around the same size as Joakim Noah.
    If Davis gains 20lbs he'd still be significantly undersized at the 5. Noah can play undersized because he's got crazy energy and hustle - but he's also 6'11" (Davis is 6'10"). Davis is more a fundamentals guy. Fundamentals can't help make up for being outmatched to nearly the same capacity that energy and hustle can.

    And Davis still has a lot of development to go. No knock on him, but his defensive numbers from last season were poor - despite how good he looked on the court - and learning how to play in the interior is the NBA's steepest learning curve. Paired with Millsap, it's a very weak defensive frontcourt for the time being. Not exactly the defensive shot in the arm I'd been hoping for.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Rookie KingRaptors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    34
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Al Jeff is probably better than anything you're going to find at #5 and then on top of that they retain a lotto pick. Strictly from a maximizing value standpoint it's good for the Raptors. In fact it's very good. Bargnani can be moved for a wing or a PG. Ed Davis is adding a lot of mass and he may be ready for center this season. The trade makes sense to me.
    Ed Davis at Center for the Rap is just about the same as Horford playing center for the Hawks and we clearly see that experiment has failed too small to guard big guys. I have 0 confidence that Ed can hold his ground against Dwight Howard, Roy Hibbert... etc.
    Last edited by KingRaptors; Mon Jun 20th, 2011 at 10:11 AM.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,815
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    guys the days of hulking centers and playing half court are over. get over it. you need guys that can run the break and give help D. the starting centers in the finals were old man chandler (who played great, im not disputing it, but cmon) and joel fucking anthony.

    last i checked noah was benched a lot of the time for not being able to keep up with the heats frontcourt.
    @jerboat

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,815
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    ed won't match up well against the likes of dwight howard or bynum but really who does?
    @jerboat

  11. #31
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Another thing people aren't talking about is the fact that Al Jefferson is a back to the basket low post player. There are few back to the bucket +20PPG players in the league today. What he brings on offense would be a huge assets when the Raptors are running half court plays. He would make life a lot easier for a young, inexperienced starting PG...

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    guys the days of hulking centers and playing half court are over. get over it. you need guys that can run the break and give help D. the starting centers in the finals were old man chandler (who played great, im not disputing it, but cmon) and joel fucking anthony.

    last i checked noah was benched a lot of the time for not being able to keep up with the heats frontcourt.
    Really though. One of the toughest post match ups Ed would face would be in practice against Al. Most centers in the league today either can't score or they're face up players. No matter who the Raptors put on Dwight, he's going to need help defense down low. Even then, once Dwight gets the rock around the bucket there are few players in the league who are going to get the stop.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    guys the days of hulking centers and playing half court are over. get over it. you need guys that can run the break and give help D. the starting centers in the finals were old man chandler (who played great, im not disputing it, but cmon) and joel fucking anthony.
    Man that's crazy talk right there.

    Last whack of NBA champions:

    Mavericks (Chandler)
    Lakers (Bynum)
    Lakers (Bynum)
    Celtics (Perkins)
    Spurs (Duncan)
    Heat (Shaq)
    Spurs (Duncan)
    Pistons (Ben Wallace)
    Spurs (Duncan)
    Lakers (Shaq)
    Lakers (Shaq)
    Lakers (Shaq)
    Spurs (Robinson)

    Care to rethink that statement? Tell me how any of those teams won without a "hulking center". Detroit with Wallace is the only exception, but given Wallace is a multiple NBA Defensive Player of the Year, the exception is marginal.

    And how many of those teams were non half-court, fast-break break teams?? Right. Zero.

    And Tyson Chandler is not old. He's 28 for crying out loud. Younger than Dwyane Wade.

    No offense but that post was nonsense.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,815
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    like i said, days of hulking centers are over. last i checked shaq is retired and duncan plays 20 minutes a game and got swept by memphis.
    @jerboat

  14. #34
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
    Man that's crazy talk right there.

    Last whack of NBA champions:

    Mavericks (Chandler)
    Lakers (Bynum)
    Lakers (Bynum)
    Celtics (Perkins)
    Spurs (Duncan)
    Heat (Shaq)
    Spurs (Duncan)
    Pistons (Ben Wallace)
    Spurs (Duncan)
    Lakers (Shaq)
    Lakers (Shaq)
    Lakers (Shaq)
    Spurs (Robinson)

    Care to rethink that statement? Tell me how any of those teams won without a "hulking center". Detroit with Wallace is the only exception, but given Wallace is a multiple NBA Defensive Player of the Year, the exception is marginal.

    And how many of those teams were non half-court, fast-break break teams?? Right. Zero.

    And Tyson Chandler is not old. He's 28 for crying out loud. Younger than Dwyane Wade.

    No offense but that post was nonsense.
    You add 20lbs of muscle onto Ed and he's at around Chandler's size and we're not talking about a team that's going to the finals anytime soon regardless. Ed and Al could be switching assignments depending on the size of the opposing bigs. Al is a freight train.

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    like i said, days of hulking centers are over. last i checked shaq is retired and duncan plays 20 minutes a game and got swept by memphis.
    And Perk isn't even an average scorer. The Raptors don't need to worry about Perk or Bynum until the finals. At that point, halleluiah, what a problem to have.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    46
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i rather we trade bargs for either a wing or point guard (draft either a wing or point guard - depending on which position is addressed through the bargani trade) then try to sign a center like chandler in free agency

  16. #36
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Chandler just won a Championship with the Mavs. Why would he leave that to go play for the Raptors? I can only think of one scenario. Blackmail...

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter jeff_hostetler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    659
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    like i said, days of hulking centers are over. last i checked shaq is retired and duncan plays 20 minutes a game and got swept by memphis.
    The Spurs got beat out by Memphis...and what kind of center does Memphis have again?

    And the Spurs did not get swept. The series went to six games...what series were you watching?

    Show me 5 teams that are a threat to win next season - or beyond - without a hulking presence guarding the basket? I can think of only two - Chicago and Miami. One of those teams happens to start 3 all-stars and 2 first-ballot hall of famers (That is, they're a total statistical aberration). The other is lead by the league's MVP and had their non hulking C benched for significant stretches in the playoffs in favour of their hulking one.

    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You add 20lbs of muscle onto Ed and he's at around Chandler's size and we're not talking about a team that's going to the finals anytime soon regardless.
    What?? Tyson Chandler is 7'1". Ed Davis is generously listed at 6'10".

  18. #38
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I said size, not height. Big difference.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    478
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default who do the raptors give up?

    Too much uncertainty in this deal, Ive heard that Kleiza is one of the names that the raptors may be sending to utah plus the tpe and a filler, we might be giving away one of our PFs just dont know.

    I do know that Al Jefferson is a good player though, he can get you 20 and 10 from the C position which is hard to do, and he averaged almost 2 blocks a game for utah last year not bad at all.

    Ive repeatedly said that I would like to see the raptors bring in some more veteran players rather than youth into this mix, but I cant endorse this deal until I Know more about it. The way the deal is though "jefferson and the 12th, for torontos 5th" I would do that lol.

  20. #40
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    12,291
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Too much uncertainty in this deal, Ive heard that Kleiza is one of the names that the raptors may be sending to utah plus the tpe and a filler, we might be giving away one of our PFs just dont know.
    If they can offload Kleiza in the deal then that's even better.

    Quote SuperRaptor wrote: View Post
    Ive repeatedly said that I would like to see the raptors bring in some more veteran players rather than youth into this mix, but I cant endorse this deal until I Know more about it. The way the deal is though "jefferson and the 12th, for torontos 5th" I would do that lol.
    This coming season with be Al's eighth year in the league. He's a vet.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •