View Poll Results: Do you think MIA 1st round pick for JJ was premature on BC's part?

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Thread: Miami 1st round pick for JJ was premature

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Default Miami 1st round pick for JJ was premature

    I think that if the Raptors saved that pick instead of getting James Johnson for it then they might of had a chance at acquiring a 1st round sleeper like Nikola Vucecic or Nolan Smith.

    BC made a premature move with a late pick that teams like Spurs get amazing sleepers with year in and year out.

    I'm not saying JJ is a bust but I'd rather see the Raptors get a C or a PG with that pick and then draft a SF like Kawhi.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    it wasn't premature at all. he got a solid player for a late, late first round pick in a weak draft. it wasn't like they'd even be able to get a guy like klay thompson or biyombo.

    besides, whos to say he can't flip jj? isn't jj's worth more than a late first round pick in this draft?
    @jerboat

  3. #3
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The chances of getting a talent on the level of James Johnson late in the 1st round is very slim. It was a smart, safe play. It wasn't premature, it was smart. They took advantage of a team loaded with depth who needed to make space for future moves.

    Late first round usually means "bust".

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    look at it this way, if we don't draft kawhi, jj can start the rest of the season in a pinch. next year and down the road he can come off the bench as a sixth man and guard 3 positions. name one guy slated to go in the late first round that will be able to do so.
    @jerboat

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Without any draft picks having played a single minute of NBA action, how can one come to this determination?

    BC made a premature move with a late pick that teams like Spurs get amazing sleepers with year in and year out.
    This is 100% opinion, which obviously you are entitled to, however that does not make it true. It could be eventually but as of now, nope.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    name one guy slated to go in the late first round that will be able to do so.
    I'm talking about if we had the pick and drafted Kawhi we would have a good chance at getting a C like Vucevic or PG like Nolan Smith, I rather we kept the pick and fill one of those gaping holes with a solid backup defender.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    but we have a solid starting defender...
    @jerboat

  8. #8
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    I'm talking about if we had the pick and drafted Kawhi we would have a good chance at getting a C like Vucevic or PG like Nolan Smith, I rather we kept the pick and fill one of those gaping holes with a solid backup defender.
    And some rookie taken late first round is going to do that? You're looking at a project that far back in the draft.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote e2thed wrote: View Post
    I'm talking about if we had the pick and drafted Kawhi we would have a good chance at getting a C like Vucevic or PG like Nolan Smith, I rather we kept the pick and fill one of those gaping holes with a solid backup defender.


    How can you say an unproven, yet to be drafted player is a solid back-up defender? I like what Nolan Smith did in college, but he is an undersized 2 guard who can handle the ball a bit, we already have Bayless learning the PG position. Vuvevic is a poor athlete and projects to be a career back-up. Neither player is exactly going to make or break a successful rebuild at this point. I would rather have a late first/early second round pick in 2012 where the draft is projected to be very deep.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    Raptors are a weak defensive team with no depth, I would like to see them acquire a late 1st rounder that can impact the bench and we still will get a solid defender in Kawhi.

  11. #11
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Most big men take years to develop. You wouldn't know if the pick was a success until 2014 or so... maybe we revisit this then? I think we're premature on this thread.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    I think the better argument for keeping the pick is that you would have picked a guy you control for a couple more years. Even there, you have JJ locked up for potentially 3 years (assuming the CBA does not change that), so I'm not sure the extra 2 years means much.

    Either way, you still have to pick a rotation guy at that spot in the draft who may not work out at all. I am not a huge Johnson fan but he can certainly be a rotation guy on this gawdawful team. You can't say that with certainty about any late first-rounder.

  13. #13
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    Overall it was a net upgrade in asset value, and that's really the priority for BC. Although it also insures us against the (hopefully) loss of Weems and Wright in the offseason. And if the rumours are true that we're looking at picking up a second lotto pick, then that late first becomes the third rookie on the team, and unlikely to see any playing time. Also, I think it was good timing, as if anything, the value of that draft pick has gone down with all the players that have dropped out (although Chicago probably would still make the trade, as they seemed to want to do the right thing and move JJ to somewhere he would get playing time).

    If there's a guy in the late first or later that BC wants, he can probably get a pick for cheap, as he did with Alibi. As it stands right now, BC has loads of flexibility to move down in the draft, pick up an additional lotto or late draft pick, move major assets at either the PG or C position, take on additional salary with the Bosh TPE... basically, whatever he can get someone else to agree to, he has the flexibility to make work. All of these tools can result in much more significant moves than drafting some raw project.

  14. #14
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    Will there be someone better than JJ in the late 1st round and 2nd round? Probably. But it's a huge risk and the chances of BC actually getting that player are pretty slim. It's a smart move that's playing the odds IMO.
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  15. #15
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    In the past 20 years, only 1 team has had any sort of success drafting out of the 28th spot -- San Antonio. They took Tony Parker, Leandrinho Barbosa, Beno Udrih, Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter over the past few years.

    Here are the other in the past 20 years. None of these guys will or have had as much promise as James Johnson. That's not to say Johnson is a slamdunk, but take a look at these names: Les Jepsen, Kevin Lynch, Lucious Harris, Marlon Maxey, Deon Thomas, Greg Ostertag, Priest Lauderdale, Keith Booth, Corey Benjamin, Scott Padgett, Erick Blarkley, Dan Dickau, Maurice Ager, Donte Green, Wayne Ellington.

    Okay, I'll give you Greg Ostertag, but Utah has always had a history of getting more out of their players than their talent suggests.
    Last edited by ebrian; Mon Jun 20th, 2011 at 12:44 PM.

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Good list ebrian - I think it shows that what we're getting from a #16 pick (that BC considered at #9 before drafting DeMar).
    -Whether it's a 'weak' draft or not doesn't matter ... you just don't have any guarantees there.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Thanks. It's actually a pretty dreadful list, but also speaks to the drafting "genius" of RC Buford. That man is a god amongst men when evaluating late round talent.

    I think we could have a better time discussing the value of the 28th (not who we could draft with that pick but the value of the draft pick on its own) versus James Johnson.

    I think it's been well established that Johnson has more value than whoever we might pick at 28th. But it's the unknown quantity of the draft pick itself that gives it its value. If I'm BC, I might have wanted to keep the pick for a chance to move up/down the draft. For example if a potential trade partner is already set at SF, the 28th overall pick might be more valuable to them than James Johnson is.

  18. #18
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    Wasn't premature at all BC got a talented all-around SF who started and gave us solid D, rebounding & chipped in offensively. No one that we would of gotten with that pick would of been anywhere near ready

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm having trouble figuring out the logic of this post. You want to target 2 potential backups with a late first round pick because you want solid defenders?

    Current raptors with good defensive upside: Amir, Ed, JJ, DD, Bayless....not going to count guys like reggie, dorsey, leandro etc who may not be around.

    Keeping late 1st round pick scenario defenders: Amir, Ed, DD, Bayless, Kawhi and one of Smith or Vucevic

    Trading for JJ and only having 5th pick: Amir, Ed, JJ, DD, Bayless, plus
    one of these potentially solid defensive additions: Knight, Walker(over 5rpg and almost 2 spg despite size), Kawhi, Valuncianas, and Kanter(may not be great on D at first but sure to be a great rebounder)

    All of these guys are better picks than we'd get at 28 and we'd have the same amount of potentially good defensive players at roughly the same positions. I also urge you to remember that D is one area where the coaching style has huge impact and Dallas still ran a solid D with Dirk, Barea, and Kidd on the floor together at times (and say what you want about Kidd's D, at this age he's a shadow of his former self and can't guard much of anyone 1-on-1)

  20. #20
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    I am feeling in a predicting mood...Johnson is going to come in much fitter (lbs. loss...he knows he needs to) which will make him a better on the defensive end. It will also be his first full season with the Raps and more comfortable with his position on the team..if another sf is not chosen! And if he has improved his shot....weellll....is there anyone on the board that might measure up to that "potential"? No one mentions is passing/point forward skills either. Considering that a lot of teams are actually trying to flee their lottery positions I believe BC did the right thing to acquire JJ who was picked @16 in a better draft. I like his personality as well.

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