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Thread: Draft Day Trades

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Draft Day Trades

    The WSH-MIN trade of a couple of years ago is the inspiration behind this thread. I'd like to see Toronto do something along these lines.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...mintrade062309

    Before we start, a couple of notes regarding draft. 1) I don't buy this is a weak draft. While there may be limited superstars, there are some quality players in the draft. 2) I don't buy players not declaring. Look at Irving for what can happen to college players. Also look at 1998 draft: 9 of top 10 picks were FR, SO, or JR. Only 1 SR. That draft also featured Bibby, Jamison, Carter, Nowitzki, and Piere in top 10. Not a bad draft.

    As for trades, criteria:

    - teams who are already stock-piled with youth and a) around $50M in guaranteed money next year and looking to shed salary for their own RFA or FA's in general, or b) overloaded with certain players such as too many wings.

    - gets the Raptors a higher draft pick.

    - gets the Raptors decent veterans to lead the 'youngsters'.


    PHI: Raps take Nocioni and 1st round pick for MIA first round pick and TPE.

    HOU: Raps take Jeffries, get lower of HOU/NY draft pick and/or lower of HOU/LAC second round pick for MIA first round pick and TPE

    LAC: Raps take Foye and 1st round pick for Barbosa and MIA first round pick.

    PHX: Raps take Pietrus and higher of PHX/ORL first round pick for MIA first round pick.

    DET: Raps take Jason Maxiell and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick.

    MIN: Raps take Webster and one of MEM/UTA first round pick for Calderon and MIA 1st rounder

    MIN: Raps take Flynn/Webster/MIN 1st round pick for Calderon/Barbosa/MIA first round pick.

    GSW: Raps take Biendris and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick. *This would assume Biendris has no value in the league due to 3 years and $27M remaining*

    IND: Raps take Posey and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick. *IND already has low salary for next season - may not be interested in more salary dumps*


    A lot of these are off the top of my head. Does anyone else have others?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The WSH-MIN trade of a couple of years ago is the inspiration behind this thread. I'd like to see Toronto do something along these lines.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...mintrade062309

    Before we start, a couple of notes regarding draft. 1) I don't buy this is a weak draft. While there may be limited superstars, there are some quality players in the draft. 2) I don't buy players not declaring. Look at Irving for what can happen to college players. Also look at 1998 draft: 9 of top 10 picks were FR, SO, or JR. Only 1 SR. That draft also featured Bibby, Jamison, Carter, Nowitzki, and Piere in top 10. Not a bad draft.

    As for trades, criteria:

    - teams who are already stock-piled with youth and a) around $50M in guaranteed money next year and looking to shed salary for their own RFA or FA's in general, or b) overloaded with certain players such as too many wings.

    - gets the Raptors a higher draft pick.

    - gets the Raptors decent veterans to lead the 'youngsters'.


    PHI: Raps take Nocioni and 1st round pick for MIA first round pick and TPE.

    HOU: Raps take Jeffries, get lower of HOU/NY draft pick and/or lower of HOU/LAC second round pick for MIA first round pick and TPE

    LAC: Raps take Foye and 1st round pick for Barbosa and MIA first round pick.

    PHX: Raps take Pietrus and higher of PHX/ORL first round pick for MIA first round pick.

    DET: Raps take Jason Maxiell and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick.

    MIN: Raps take Webster and one of MEM/UTA first round pick for Calderon and MIA 1st rounder

    MIN: Raps take Flynn/Webster/MIN 1st round pick for Calderon/Barbosa/MIA first round pick.

    GSW: Raps take Biendris and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick. *This would assume Biendris has no value in the league due to 3 years and $27M remaining*

    IND: Raps take Posey and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick. *IND already has low salary for next season - may not be interested in more salary dumps*


    A lot of these are off the top of my head. Does anyone else have others?
    Though I do agree with the initial concept; you say 'Raps take so and so' like the other team is looking to get rid of them. No way Detroit gives up Maxiell and their Lottery pick for Miami's crap pick. No way Pheonix gives away Pietrus and a pick for Miami's pick. We need to give away ALOT more then what you are suggesting in some of these scenarios. Biedrins absolutely DOES have value in this league. He's still young, has proven to be a hard nosed center, and is a Center in every sense of the word. Very valuable.

    The Flynn/Webster/Pick for Caldy/Barbo/Pick seems the more likely of any suggested. We'd still probably have to include our 2nd rounder as well in that.

    The reason this worked for Washington is because Mike Miller and Randy Foye both filled a Long-Range gap that Washington felt could not be filled in the draft. They only had the high pick because of so many devestating injuries. They should have been Top 4 in the East that year. Was a bummer.

    In order to get any High-ish pick, we need to offer something the other team NEEDS desperately.
    Last edited by Joey; Sat Feb 12th, 2011 at 09:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Though I do agree with the initial concept; you say 'Raps take so and so' like the other team is looking to get rid of them. No way Detroit gives up Maxiell and their Lottery pick for Miami's crap pick. No way Pheonix gives away Pietrus and a pick for Miami's pick. We need to give away ALOT more then what you are suggesting in some of these scenarios. Biedrins absolutely DOES have value in this league. He's still young, has proven to be a hard nosed center, and is a Center in every sense of the word. Very valuable.

    The Flynn/Webster/Pick for Caldy/Barbo/Pick seems the more likely of any suggested. We'd still probably have to include our 2nd rounder as well in that.

    The reason this worked for Washington is because Mike Miller and Randy Foye both filled a Long-Range gap that Washington felt could not be filled in the draft. They only had the high pick because of so many devestating injuries. They should have been Top 4 in the East that year. Was a bummer.

    In order to get any High-ish pick, we need to offer something the other team NEEDS desperately.
    A few things:
    1) Many scouts are saying this is a weak draft. I don't buy it however if that is the general consensus, lottery picks in the 11-14 range may not be especially desired given the guaranteed contract. I don't know just speculating.

    2) Many of the teams are at or over the salary cap and Houston is over the luxury cap. Never underestimate the weight financial considerations can play in transactions - especially for a team with guaranteed salary commitments of $50M plus next season and still in the lottery.

    3) Many of the teams might have too many players at a particular position.

    There is no doubt some of the trades are tough to consider feasible. However, Maxiell averages 9 minutes per game the last 2 months and is owed $5M next season. Pietrus averages under 20 minutes a game with a team loaded with wings and has a player option of $5.3M. Biendris is owed $27M after this season and despite all the expectations for this year GS are still lottery bound. (For the record, the GSW is my personal least favourite of the trades suggested).

    I'm well aware of what happened with WSH. Who is to say a veteran team or a team who was expected to make the playoffs (MIL?) doesn't trade their pick to add a veteran or unload salary to make a run at a free agent who can offer immediate help rather than wait 2-3 years for a draft pick to contribute. I wonder if MIL still remembers their last 8th pick and how that turned out. Also who is to say a team like MIN doesn't say we have enough young players, we need a veteran.

    "In order to get any High-ish pick, we need to offer something the other team NEEDS desperately"

    Some teams desparately need money saved or financial flexibility. All the trades above satisfy that. Not every trade in the NBA is about talent - unfortunately. The OKC-NOH trade and the MIA-OKC trade from last year's draft are perfect examples.

    Now my question for you and anyone else, does anyone have other similar trade ideas? If my suggestions are unrealisitic, and no doubt some of them are, please offer suggestions to fix rather than the usual un-insightful criticism. Also keep in mind TOR does not have a 2nd round pick this year.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Here is another:

    If MEM does not make the playoffs, they still have their draft pick this year (top 14 protected). MIN gets top 12 protected next season instead.

    Raps take Thabeet and 14 pick for MIA pick. Thabeet is battling Haddadi on the depth chart and is owed $5M next year. MEM has Z-Bo and Gasol as free agents plus no depth on their bench and is on the cusp of the playoffs the last 2 years. The trade leaves $35M on the books for next season.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Also keep in mind TOR does not have a 2nd round pick this year.
    Don't we? I thought we got it back from Dallas in the Ajinca deal?

    Other than that, tis a fine rebuttal. All great points. Suppose I do underestimate the power of money. How silly of me. haha

    I'd love to see BC pull off something creative and nab us another pick. But at what point do the Raptors do what you were suggesting Minnesota do, and realize that at some point you've got enough young talent and need verterans. One might argue we're nearing that fine line. But I say get as much as we can out of this draft. No one has said its the strongest draft, but I've yet to hear a scout say its a BAD draft. It's deep and some treasures can be found in the 20's as well. So any pick we can acquire would be beneficial.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Don't we? I thought we got it back from Dallas in the Ajinca deal?

    Other than that, tis a fine rebuttal. All great points. Suppose I do underestimate the power of money. How silly of me. haha

    I'd love to see BC pull off something creative and nab us another pick. But at what point do the Raptors do what you were suggesting Minnesota do, and realize that at some point you've got enough young talent and need verterans. One might argue we're nearing that fine line. But I say get as much as we can out of this draft. No one has said its the strongest draft, but I've yet to hear a scout say its a BAD draft. It's deep and some treasures can be found in the 20's as well. So any pick we can acquire would be beneficial.
    The 2nd round pick from Ajinca was the 2013 pick. The Raps traded 2009 and 2011 second round picks to DET for Delfino.

    While the Raps are most definitely young, they are not on the same par as MIN. Here is MIN roster: http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_...a-timberwolves and here is TOR roster: http://espn.go.com/nba/team/roster/_...oronto-raptors

    The Wolves have 1 player over 25.

    Both teams are young but the Raps do have a few more older players with 5 guys over 25 (6 if you count Trey Johnson).

    I really hope they can find a way to pull a MIN and get 2 high picks. Irving is my number one pick but T. Jones would be great. He had a couple of very impressive rebounds and 3 blks versus Vanderbilt - 1 of those blocks was just nasty. The funny thing about Jones is in the first half Kentucky barely used him. He had 8 points off 3-5 shooting. In the second half they used him and he finished with 25 including a clutch 3 with around a minute left.

    One can only dream.

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    Given how bad we're playing we have a legit shot at Terrence Jones though.

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    Quote dballa21 wrote: View Post
    Given how bad we're playing we have a legit shot at Terrence Jones though.
    He has actually slid down to around 6-8 on a few mock draft boards. At nbadraft.net he is 6 and at draftexpress.com he is 8.

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    I like the thoughts of picking up Pietrus, and with Sarver as the Suns owner they could well go for this one.

    A lot of teams have been rumoured at even looking at selling their 1st rounders this year under the belief this is a weak draft so don't sell the trades Matt listed as out.

    Still high on Terrence Jones, and would love him here, and another mid-pick would be great to pick up.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    keep in mind the 2009 draft was supposed to be top heavy but weak. turned out to be a extremely solid draft.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Here is another:

    If MEM does not make the playoffs, they still have their draft pick this year (top 14 protected). MIN gets top 12 protected next season instead.

    Raps take Thabeet and 14 pick for MIA pick. Thabeet is battling Haddadi on the depth chart and is owed $5M next year. MEM has Z-Bo and Gasol as free agents plus no depth on their bench and is on the cusp of the playoffs the last 2 years. The trade leaves $35M on the books for next season.
    I don't think Memphis takes that deal. That's a lose-lose situation for them. A former lotto pick AND their lotto pick for a pick that might as well be in the 2nd round? That could end up being just as bad as the Gasol deal.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The WSH-MIN trade of a couple of years ago is the inspiration behind this thread. I'd like to see Toronto do something along these lines.
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...mintrade062309

    Before we start, a couple of notes regarding draft. 1) I don't buy this is a weak draft. While there may be limited superstars, there are some quality players in the draft. 2) I don't buy players not declaring. Look at Irving for what can happen to college players. Also look at 1998 draft: 9 of top 10 picks were FR, SO, or JR. Only 1 SR. That draft also featured Bibby, Jamison, Carter, Nowitzki, and Piere in top 10. Not a bad draft.

    As for trades, criteria:

    - teams who are already stock-piled with youth and a) around $50M in guaranteed money next year and looking to shed salary for their own RFA or FA's in general, or b) overloaded with certain players such as too many wings.

    - gets the Raptors a higher draft pick.

    - gets the Raptors decent veterans to lead the 'youngsters'.


    PHI: Raps take Nocioni and 1st round pick for MIA first round pick and TPE.

    HOU: Raps take Jeffries, get lower of HOU/NY draft pick and/or lower of HOU/LAC second round pick for MIA first round pick and TPE

    LAC: Raps take Foye and 1st round pick for Barbosa and MIA first round pick.

    PHX: Raps take Pietrus and higher of PHX/ORL first round pick for MIA first round pick.

    DET: Raps take Jason Maxiell and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick.

    MIN: Raps take Webster and one of MEM/UTA first round pick for Calderon and MIA 1st rounder

    MIN: Raps take Flynn/Webster/MIN 1st round pick for Calderon/Barbosa/MIA first round pick.

    GSW: Raps take Biendris and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick. *This would assume Biendris has no value in the league due to 3 years and $27M remaining*

    IND: Raps take Posey and 1st rounder for MIA first round pick. *IND already has low salary for next season - may not be interested in more salary dumps*


    A lot of these are off the top of my head. Does anyone else have others?
    Out of the scenarios listed above, the only one I can see happening is the Philadelphia one. The other ones are very much wishful thinking.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    I don't mind Jones, but the only thing that I get concerned about is..is he baby Cousins? Cousins, while very talented, is lazy attitude wise and clashes with coaches. I can see Jones doing the same thing when he gets to the pros.

    The kids I'm high on are Kanter and Sullinger. Both have excellent attitudes, high ball IQs and are beasts.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    I don't mind Jones, but the only thing that I get concerned about is..is he baby Cousins? Cousins, while very talented, is lazy attitude wise and clashes with coaches. I can see Jones doing the same thing when he gets to the pros.

    The kids I'm high on are Kanter and Sullinger. Both have excellent attitudes, high ball IQs and are beasts.
    I guess it is not close enough to the draft. While I've read some things on Jones, nothing close to the Cousins stuff - despite the latest dust up in Sac-town. My goal is to watch as many Kentucky games as possible. The issue with Jones at the start of the year messing up the last play of the game may have indeed been a learning experience. A lot of players go to high school, then college, and then the pros use to being the man at one point or another. Very few reach the NBA as 'the man'. This could be the very first time he's dealt with a situation like this and he is adjusting. This could also be the start of a Cousins' as well. Time will tell and I'm sure by the time the NBA playoffs are going on and the other half of the league are looking at the draft, these stories will come out.

    As for Kanter or Sullinger:

    How many many bigs should be on a team's rotation? There should be 4 solid players but only 3 who play consistent, IMO. The fourth is like JOey Dorsey this year - injuries or foul trouble is when he plays. If one of those guys are drafted, the talent level of the other 3 (Davis, Johnson, Bargnani*) means one has to go.

    *Please do not turn this in to a trade Bargnani thread. See "Everything Bargnani" for that.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Here is another:

    If MEM does not make the playoffs, they still have their draft pick this year (top 14 protected). MIN gets top 12 protected next season instead.

    Raps take Thabeet and 14 pick for MIA pick. Thabeet is battling Haddadi on the depth chart and is owed $5M next year. MEM has Z-Bo and Gasol as free agents plus no depth on their bench and is on the cusp of the playoffs the last 2 years. The trade leaves $35M on the books for next season.
    This is a trade I think they'd take. They need to re-sign their big-men, and Thabeet doesn't even play... We get a lotto pick and a guy who could play 10-20 minutes behind Bargnani. With the lotto pick, we could get Kanter if he drops. And if we manage to do the Nocioni trade, my life will be complete. HAHA

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Well, whatever deal is out there, BC needs to get his act together considering his counterpart in Brian Burke completely redeemed himself by dealing Thomas Kaberle for highly touted prospect Joe Colborne and picks. Watch gonna do Bryco?

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Draft Day Trades: Post yours!

    I can't keep Minnesota off my brain with the Calderon connections there (Rubio, Babcock, Martin). Here are 2 to start the thread:

    1) http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=4w97uke **

    MIN: Calderon, Barbosa to shore up the backcourt and provide some veteran leadership. Their 2012 pick is unprotected - they have to make it as high as possible.

    TOR: Flynn and Webster are fillers providing positions of need (PG/SF). The key to this trade for me is to get a bruiser to push Bargnani in practice and play 10-20minutes a night as needed. Webster's deal is not guaranteed past next year.

    **There could be a swapping of draft picks as well.

    2a) (This trade fails right now but would work draft day).

    MIN: Calderon, Mayo
    MEM: (protected til 2015) own 2011 1st rd pick back from MIN, 2011 1st rd pick from PHI
    TOR: Pekovic, Flynn, Nocioni, MIN's 1st round pick
    PHI: salary dump to keep Thaddeus Young

    MIN adds greatly to backcourt depth.
    MEM were giving up Mayo for McRoberts and IND 1st round pick, obviously not much value for Mayo right now. This is a better deal for them plus lose Mayo's $5.6M salary next season.
    TOR adds a solid 4th big in a C not afraid to hit people (including Bargnani), 21 year old PG with upside, veteran at SF who is an expiring contract, is MIN pick pushing it?
    PHI salary dump as already said.

    If MIN pick to TOR is unrealisitc for giving up Calderon and taking on Nocioni's salary then I would be all over 2b):

    2b)
    MIN: Calderon, Mayo
    MEM: MIN's 1st round pick
    TOR: Pekovic, Flynn, Nocioni, Xavier Henry, 2011 1st rd pick from PHI
    PHI: salary dump to keep Thaddeus Young

    All same reasons as above. Henry is a 3 and D SG who would be great behind DD. Still only 19 years old with one season at Kansas, petty contract negotiations with MEM over summer, minor injuries costing time, and currently behind Tony Allen and Sam Young (who are both back next year) on the bench.


    Do you have any possible draft day trades?

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    The only thing I can think of is if we don't win the lottery, we trade our pick for multiple picks which are also in the lotto.

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    How about a dream that won't happen -
    Calderon (I am loving his fit right now with the Raptors but how long will he be healthy - fits very well next to Ellis), Bayless (back up Ellis for miniscule minutes), J Wright, to GS
    TPE to Philly, plus GS 1st rounder
    Nocioni (cost cutting to resign Young), Biedrins (big time out of favour in GS), Curry (who would fit with us, and I believe is still feuding with Ellis and Philly 1st rounder NOTE: rumours out of GS is that Ellis is protected and Curry is the one 'available')

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    This was your trade:

    GSW: Calderon, Bayless, Wright to GS
    PHI: TPE and GSW 1st rounder
    TOR: Noc, Biendris, Curry, PHI 1st rounder

    Wright is a free agent this summer so he can't be used in a trade. Honestly, the trade would be a dream come. What about this (GSW currently projected to draft 11 and Toronto 5/6):
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=63a3zrh

    GSW: Calderon, Bayless, Alabi, right to flip 2011 1st round picks with TOR (5/6 for 11), PHI 2011 1st round pick
    PHI: TPE (in new CBA, I think everyone agrees cap space will be valuable and they risk losing Young)
    TOR: Nocioni, Biendris, Curry


    GSW gets a PG who can shoot and set up others, a bench player, and a project at C. They'd probably go for Kanter or Valanciunas, IMO. They trade one 'bad' contract for another in Calderon but he has one less year.

    PHI gets cap relief in a future CBA that is sure to have less money for salaries and they can re-sign Young).

    TOR gets a rugged, veteran SF, a backup C, and the PG of the future. With the Raps draft pick, they can go after whatever the best player available is - in this draft, I would venture a guess and say it is a wing (Burks, Hamilton?).

    I'd love this to happen but, like most trade ideas, will never happen. Biggest reason against it would be it doesn't solve the defensive problems the GSW currently have matching up against bigger shooting guards.

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