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Thread: Spurs Offering Tony Parker? Looking to draft Valanciunas? (See post #74)

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I don't even know why san antonio would want to do such a trade. Don't know if Parker for a lottery pick really upgrades their roster. The only thing I can think of is they are also targeting a player on each roster, say Amir and the 5th for Parker, or Blatche and #7 for Parker? I don't know, probably just smoke. Maybe they are gauging Parker's value.

  2. #22
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    • Their high lotto pick will be somebody age 18-21 whereas Parker is only a couple years away from the age when guards start losing a step. For a PG who depends heavily on speed to do his job, this is a concerning proposition.
    • Since when did Tony Parker start playing good defense?
    • No one is suggesting the Raptors can't get an excellent player at #5.
    that pretty much sums it up.

    Tony Parker 5 years ago... yeah that sounds like a good idea. Today? not so much especially considering the Raps (hopefully) current youth movement

  3. #23
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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    You're only looking at half the picture. Losing in the first round will still give them a decent 1st round pick in a what is being called a deep draft.

    Maybe losing in the 1st round will give these guys confidence which they can improve upon in the seasons that follow. And maybe it doesn't interest you but I'm sure it interests a lot of people on the team and within the organization.

    People seem to be mistaking Andre Miller for Tony Parker. Because Tony Parker is and has been an elite level player. This team needs top talent.
    I think I speak for fans who don't want to settle for medocrity and are willing to take more lumps to make a serious run at a title!
    On a side note who wants to play with a guy who will try to slide it in on your wife. Parker doesn't understand what the man code is!

  4. #24
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    • Their high lotto pick will be somebody age 18-21 whereas Parker is only a couple years away from the age when guards start losing a step. For a PG who depends heavily on speed to do his job, this is a concerning proposition.
    • Since when did Tony Parker start playing good defense?
    • No one is suggesting the Raptors can't get an excellent player at #5.
    You could make the case that he's better on defence than Jose and so what if his body is going to age a little bit? And I think excellent player is a bit of a stretch. I'm sure you can look back in previous drafts and find that teams have drafted people at the #5 and they turned out to be less than excellent. Conversely, GM's have found great players lower than the #5. All I'm saying is that people are talking about this year's pick like it's a sure thing.

    Obviously there are slight drawbacks to trading for Parker but that doesn't make trading for him a major sacrifice to Toronto's future.

  5. #25
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    Quote Raps4Ever wrote: View Post
    I think I speak for fans who don't want to settle for medocrity and are willing to take more lumps to make a serious run at a title!
    On a side note who wants to play with a guy who will try to slide it in on your wife. Parker doesn't understand what the man code is!
    Mediocrity? Come on, eventually they're going to make the playoffs and probably get bounced in the 1st round. Why not start that process this year and propel it to the one after that and other subsequent seasons?

    About the man code, I don't know about Parker's past with that. I try not to follow their personal lives. ...But what I do know is that Barbosa got Steve Nash's wife pregnant, and he's on the Raptors!

  6. #26
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    Some of Parkers stats from this season:

    First off, he played in 78 regular season games this season and averaged 17.5ppg almost a full point higher than his career average of 16.7ppg. I know his scoring was down from a couple of seasons ago, but he also took 4 fewer shots per game this season. He also shot 35% from deep this season, up almost 7% from two seasons ago.

    He also averaged 6.6apg compared to his career or 5.7apg. His steals went up, both his shooting percentages went up and he played half a minute less than his career average.

    I don't know why everyone thinks he's old? Maybe it's the mainstream media that routinely refers to the Spurs as "too old" and aging.

    Insert Tony Parker onto the Raptors and you will see how young he still is.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Rookie BayCityBaller's Avatar
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    It's less Parker's play that worries me, than the insane contract extension he's got that starts after next year. That's a big set of handcuffs if the trade didn't work out. I can't speak for Raptors brass when I say this, but the uncertainty of the top prospects of this draft is overwhelmingly better than the certainty of that contract being an albatross on this roster.

  8. #28
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    Why do we Raptor fans want to be in the lottery every year for a chance at a FUTURE. The future is now in today's Pro Sports. If Parker gets here via trade and the # 5 pick is involved then DO IT. Imagine the impact he would have on the youth. He's the type of PG who is going to be effective into his mid 30's a la Kidd and Nash and he just turned 29. Realistically if he came he would only be here 2-3 years . How many of you predict a good solid run between now and then? Huh? Kemba Walker gonna bring us to the final in 2 yrs? I'm not saying Parker can either but if this team wins 30-35 games next year because we picked up Parker, signed someone and made another good trade, and Casey does his magic like we all predict then the year after that we look more attractive to a bigger name FA. If we draft Walker and go to 28 wins in the hope of landing another FUTURE player in the draft then we might not be better off. The same people saying we should build a youth movement like OKC are not realizing that we don't have a Durant on this team and won't in this draft either, and perhaps not the next. The notion that your youth has to build together is non-sense. NBA teams change radically every year. It's about putting quality players on the floor that work and age has little to do with chemistry when your an adult playing a pro-sport. Any group can gel. You think Derozans game wouldn't be better if he had 2 years with Parker rather than two years with Walker or Knight? The pick is just that, a pick. It's a lottery and not everyone wins. Just look at the busts at every pick in history to know you take a top level PG whenever you can. Parker is and who can argue that..."oh Parker will be 31 in two years, 31 year olds can't do anything" Gimme a break. Isn't addressing the point one of our priorities?

  9. #29
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    Like the trade. I almost would have already done it.

    Do you think DeRozen,etc will stay on a young team
    if the team doesn't improve?Of course not.
    So those young players you all covet will
    bounce.

    Tony Parker makes the team better for at least two years.
    That's two years experience for Demar ETAL in the playoffs
    in the East.

    Secondly, who is moved to make it work financially?
    The obvious options are Jose or Bargs. If it's Bargs
    that's addition through subtraction.

    Also, The Raps have been scouting players lower
    in the draft so if they traded slots with San Antonio
    I think they would do better than most teams.

    The only thing stopping me is I want to know what
    happens ahead of us in the draft. You got to
    keep the pick for a guy like Kanter or maybe Kemba...
    depending how you have him scouted.

  10. #30
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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    How much is one #5 pick in a weaker draft sacrificing the future?

    Best case scenario: Parker becomes all star and leads Raptors back to playoffs. Defence improves future is good.

    Worst case scenario: Parker doesn't bring it, and Raptors win only 30 games. They would then be back in the lottery.

    I can see and appreciate the risks, but saying it would sacrifice the future is a little dramatic, no?
    I started to write a long reply, but decided to post most of it on my blog, here:
    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...r-be-a-raptor/

    Basically, though, my problem with the trade is that is would probably give the Raptors 5-10 more wins. Great, so now they become a 27-32 win team? Maybe the rest of the team improves, too, giving them, maybe 5-10 more wins. That's a 42 win team, at best. Maybe they make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. Maybe. But unlike a much more talented team like Memphis, Toronto is going to be a first round casualty. So with a much lower pick, they aren't likely to find an impact player in the draft, and with Parker's contract, they won't have money to spend on a free agent. So the team has little chance to bring in any other players to improve the team, which leaves their best option to improve to be within the team.

    I don't think there's many people that see either DeRozan or Davis as future elite players. Good ones, yes, but not elite players. And those two are probably going to be the two best players on the team 5 years from now. Unfortunately, because Parker has played so many games in his NBA career, he's likely going to start declining pretty soon. So by the time DeRozan and Davis are hitting their peak, Parker's probably just about done.

    And since a team lead by DeRozan and Davis aren't going to be good enough to be a contender, the Raptors will probably continue to be a 7th or 8th seed for the foreseeable future.

    So I don't think saying that a trade for Parker will doom the Raptors to mediocrity is a little dramatic. I'd say it's pretty damn accurate.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I started to write a long reply, but decided to post most of it on my blog, here:
    http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...r-be-a-raptor/

    Basically, though, my problem with the trade is that is would probably give the Raptors 5-10 more wins. Great, so now they become a 27-32 win team? Maybe the rest of the team improves, too, giving them, maybe 5-10 more wins. That's a 42 win team, at best. Maybe they make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed. Maybe. But unlike a much more talented team like Memphis, Toronto is going to be a first round casualty. So with a much lower pick, they aren't likely to find an impact player in the draft, and with Parker's contract, they won't have money to spend on a free agent. So the team has little chance to bring in any other players to improve the team, which leaves their best option to improve to be within the team.

    I don't think there's many people that see either DeRozan or Davis as future elite players. Good ones, yes, but not elite players. And those two are probably going to be the two best players on the team 5 years from now. Unfortunately, because Parker has played so many games in his NBA career, he's likely going to start declining pretty soon. So by the time DeRozan and Davis are hitting their peak, Parker's probably just about done.

    And since a team lead by DeRozan and Davis aren't going to be good enough to be a contender, the Raptors will probably continue to be a 7th or 8th seed for the foreseeable future.

    So I don't think saying that a trade for Parker will doom the Raptors to mediocrity is a little dramatic. I'd say it's pretty damn accurate.
    Perfectly put. This is my biggest fear with this squad as currently composed. Though I like DD and expect that he will continue to grow, his ceiling is not Kobe. Ed is not a future superstar, but has shown the ability to be a solid PF in the near future. Bargs might be in the team's future, but hopefully not. Though he can be a lead scorer, he isn't a go-to scorer and his defensive disabilities are a huge reason the Raps have been so poor on that end of the court. We don't have a real star and I don't see one coming in this draft. This means that getting better this year without the addition of a verifiable star (unless drafted and that's a stretch with this years crop) would be getting worse in the long term. That's a bad place to be.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter RaptorDan's Avatar
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    I'd be very interested to see which player the Spurs would draft with the 5th - and then draft that guy.

    If Parker comes to Toronto, I wonder which player's wife he would sext with first?
    Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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    I normally have to preface my response with, "do you understand how the salary cap works?", but seeing as we have no idea what the new CBA will be like, I'll refrain. That said, I am highly doubtful that the new CBA will make it even easier to acquire free agents when above a set salary, and that is why trading a potentially cheap and controllable asset for a potential albatross is a BAD idea.

    Assuming this rumor holds any merit at all, I find it amusing that all the emphasis is on how worthless our #5 pick is. So worthless, indeed, that the Spurs would trade away a franchise point straight up. That either says something about the pick's value, Parker's value over the remaining years of his contract, or a bit of both. Don't get me wrong, but I'd sooner put my faith in the Spurs' front office than some random Dick or Jane on the Internet.

    While I'm hoping that one of DeRozan and Davis surprises me, I don't for a minute believe either player will definitely be an all-star caliber player. Throw Parker on this team and then what? I'll give you a six win improvement over a team without him, and even that's generous. Barring one of our prospects playing like an all-star, maybe in three years the Raptors make the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed. Is that really more likely to convince DeRozan and Davis to stay, a team without much talent led by an aging point? No, the Raptors need all the chances they can get at good young talent that can grow with the current core. You get people to stay because the future looks bright, not because you tasted one or two first round exits and have more mediocrity on the horizon. Our future with Parker will be more Bobcats than Bulls.

  14. #34
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    Quote RaptorDan wrote: View Post
    I'd be very interested to see which player the Spurs would draft with the 5th - and then draft that guy.
    I actually suggest that very thing and even guess who that player might be....


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  15. #35
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    I normally have to preface my response with, "do you understand how the salary cap works?", but seeing as we have no idea what the new CBA will be like, I'll refrain. That said, I am highly doubtful that the new CBA will make it even easier to acquire free agents when above a set salary, and that is why trading a potentially cheap and controllable asset for a potential albatross is a BAD idea.

    Assuming this rumor holds any merit at all, I find it amusing that all the emphasis is on how worthless our #5 pick is. So worthless, indeed, that the Spurs would trade away a franchise point straight up. That either says something about the pick's value, Parker's value over the remaining years of his contract, or a bit of both. Don't get me wrong, but I'd sooner put my faith in the Spurs' front office than some random Dick or Jane on the Internet.

    While I'm hoping that one of DeRozan and Davis surprises me, I don't for a minute believe either player will definitely be an all-star caliber player. Throw Parker on this team and then what? I'll give you a six win improvement over a team without him, and even that's generous. Barring one of our prospects playing like an all-star, maybe in three years the Raptors make the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed. Is that really more likely to convince DeRozan and Davis to stay, a team without much talent led by an aging point? No, the Raptors need all the chances they can get at good young talent that can grow with the current core. You get people to stay because the future looks bright, not because you tasted one or two first round exits and have more mediocrity on the horizon. Our future with Parker will be more Bobcats than Bulls.
    I understand how the cap works, and I know he's got 4 years, but Toronto has 2 players now locked up long term with less than desirable contracts. And if Colangelo was able to move Turk, then I don't think it'll be that hard to move one or both of Bargnani and Calderon.

    Also, (and although I'm guilty of doing this myself) I think it's really hard to say how many more wins one player will give you. The butterfly effect is hard to predict.

    All that being said, I do understand the hesitation of some to trade for Parker, I just think personally, this is a risk I'd be willing to take. I'm not saying it's certain he'll be the missing link for Toronto, but I'm thinking that the pick won't be such a stud as everyone is hoping, although I do admit that the pick's more manageable contract is valued financially.

    If Toronto is able to swap out Calderon's contract for Parkers, I think the financial hit is very much indeed diminished.

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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    All that being said, I do understand the hesitation of some to trade for Parker, I just think personally, this is a risk I'd be willing to take. I'm not saying it's certain he'll be the missing link for Toronto, but I'm thinking that the pick won't be such a stud as everyone is hoping, although I do admit that the pick's more manageable contract is valued financially.
    Upside of trading for Parker: team becomes an 8th seed, and is bounced in the first round of the playoffs.

    Downside: years of mediocrity, with no flexibility to improve.

    Upside of keeping the pick: potentially get an all-star caliber player that you can build a franchise around.

    Downside: draft a bust and team is in the same spot it is now.

    I'd lean towards keeping the pick...

  18. #38
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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    And I think excellent player is a bit of a stretch. I'm sure you can look back in previous drafts and find that teams have drafted people at the #5 and they turned out to be less than excellent.
    Last few drafts at #5:
    * DeMarcus Cousins
    * Ricky Rubio
    * Kevin Love

    All players I would rather have as part of a rebuild than a 29-year old Parker.

    Also, not to mention that Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Dwayne Wade and Scottie Pippen were drafted at #5.

    This doesn't guarantee that the pick will be a star, but it is high enough that there is the chance to draft a franchise-changer (which Parker, at this point in his career, is not).

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    Quote 10 000 Hours wrote: View Post
    I understand how the cap works, and I know he's got 4 years, but Toronto has 2 players now locked up long term with less than desirable contracts. And if Colangelo was able to move Turk, then I don't think it'll be that hard to move one or both of Bargnani and Calderon.

    Also, (and although I'm guilty of doing this myself) I think it's really hard to say how many more wins one player will give you. The butterfly effect is hard to predict.

    All that being said, I do understand the hesitation of some to trade for Parker, I just think personally, this is a risk I'd be willing to take. I'm not saying it's certain he'll be the missing link for Toronto, but I'm thinking that the pick won't be such a stud as everyone is hoping, although I do admit that the pick's more manageable contract is valued financially.

    If Toronto is able to swap out Calderon's contract for Parkers, I think the financial hit is very much indeed diminished.

    Just because Toronto has a couple undesirable contracts doesn't mean the team should take on more. And just because BC was able to unload an undesirable contract doesn't mean he will be able to move all undesireable contracts.

    This is not a matter of expecting this pick to be great, or Parker to be terrible. Its a matter of adding a 29 year old player who relies almost exclusively on speed and quickness to a team that is looking to rebuild and years away from being competitive again.

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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Just because Toronto has a couple undesirable contracts doesn't mean the team should take on more. And just because BC was able to unload an undesirable contract doesn't mean he will be able to move all undesireable contracts.

    This is not a matter of expecting this pick to be great, or Parker to be terrible. Its a matter of adding a 29 year old player who relies almost exclusively on speed and quickness to a team that is looking to rebuild and years away from being competitive again.
    Kidd used to be all about speed too. And while I'm not saying that Parker is as good as Kidd or that Parker will be playing when he's 38, what I am saying is that Parker's shooting ability has been improving and like most PGs will probably continue to improve as he continues to mature and develop his game to adjust to the changes in his body.

    And I'd be shocked if Colangelo couldn't move at least one of Calderon or Bargnani.

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