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Thread: A Warning For the Raptors

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    Default A Warning For the Raptors

    While this article doesn't mention the Raptors, I think it is a good warning for those wanting to hurry the team up to make the playoffs next year...

    http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/21...rity_Treadmill

    "One of the worst things you can do in this league is be a middle-of-the-road team - in the playoffs one year, out the next," [new Charlotte Bobcats GM] Rich Cho said recently. "One of the tough things about a middle-of-the-road team is you never get really good draft picks. That makes it hard to have sustained success. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward."
    Indiana’s pattern of win totals -- 36, 32 and 37 -- and draft selections -- No. 11, 13 and 10 -- over the last three years are a near mirror image of Charlotte’s. And while they were able to unearth an All-Star caliber player (Danny Granger) in 2006 and put a bunch of solid young players around him, they don’t have anyone with the talent to push them past New York and Philadelphia, much less Miami and Chicago.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    yeah, it makes excellent points. patience is so key.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    I've got another season to waste, I'm prepared. It hurts but I think it'll be worth it in the long run. I'll be expecting a push for the playoff the next season though. I'm just looking for progression from our guys and tough play which i hope Casey brings. No injuries please!
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    I've got another season to waste, I'm prepared. It hurts but I think it'll be worth it in the long run. I'll be expecting a push for the playoff the next season though. I'm just looking for progression from our guys and tough play which i hope Casey brings. No injuries please!
    I don't look at it as a season to waste. While I'd much rather watch the team win, one of the things I really enjoy is watching players develop. At this point, that's all I've got with the Raptors.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I don't look at it as a season to waste. While I'd much rather watch the team win, one of the things I really enjoy is watching players develop. At this point, that's all I've got with the Raptors.
    Tim, I once heard you say that the Raptors have some good players (DeRozan and Davis) but that they will never be elite players. With no elite player available at the 5th spot in the draft and none of course on the current roster, does the Raptors good but not elite young core mean that they will be mired in mediocrity for quite some time? Isn't every legitimate contending team supposed to have at least 1 elite player? How do you see this playing out for the Raps?
    Last edited by Tank; Thu Jun 23rd, 2011 at 01:37 AM.

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    Quote Tank wrote: View Post
    Tim, I once heard you say that the Raptors have some good players (DeRozan and Davis) but that they will never be elite players. With no elite player available at the 5th spot in the draft and none of course on the current roster, does the Raptors good but not elite young core mean that they will be mired in mediocrity for quite some time? Isn't every legitimate contending team supposed to have at least 1 elite player? How do you see this playing out for the Raps?
    Yeah, I agree that you need at least one elite player. But who's to say that elite player isn't in this draft or the next? I'm not sold on the Raptors drafting a superstar this year or next, but hey, anything's possible.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie BayCityBaller's Avatar
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    Quote Tank wrote: View Post
    Tim, I once heard you say that the Raptors have some good players (DeRozan and Davis) but that they will never be elite players. With no elite player available at the 5th spot in the draft and none of course on the current roster, does the Raptors good but not elite young core mean that they will be mired in mediocrity for quite some time? Isn't every legitimate contending team supposed to have at least 1 elite player? How do you see this playing out for the Raps?
    I posted in this precise regard last night. The young talent we have projects well, but not superstar well. In order to achieve the results by which a franchise is considered successful in the NBA, we need at least 1 elite talent and a solid surrounding cast. Despite the Pistons success in the middle part of last decade, the history of the league shows time and time again that this rings true. The "Big Three" is not a required philosophy, but I'd take 4 players at a DD level with a true star and call us a threat.
    Last edited by BayCityBaller; Thu Jun 23rd, 2011 at 01:48 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Tank wrote: View Post
    Tim, I once heard you say that the Raptors have some good players (DeRozan and Davis) but that they will never be elite players. With no elite player available at the 5th spot in the draft and none of course on the current roster, does the Raptors good but not elite young core mean that they will be mired in mediocrity for quite some time? Isn't every legitimate contending team supposed to have at least 1 elite player? How do you see this playing out for the Raps?
    Yes to everything you have said. WHich is why they need another high lottery pick next year. WHich is exactly what I've been say for...well, a long time.
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    Quote BayCityBaller wrote: View Post
    I posted in this precise regard last night. The young talent we have projects well, but not superstar well. In order to achieve the results by which a franchise is considered successful in the NBA, we need at least 1 elite talent and a solid surrounding cast. Despite the Pistons success in the middle part of last decade, the history of the league shows time and time again that this rings true. The "Big Three" is not a required philosophy, but I'd take 4 players at a DD level with a true star and call us a threat.
    I think of the Raptors draft well, and then are able to get a true star next year, they'll have an extremely bright future.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    How true to what Cho says. And Granger fell to the Pacers because Toronto decided to pick Joey Graham. So luck/bad drafting by those ahead of you has much to do with the speed of team building. What's to say someone unexpected falls to us tonight!!

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I think of the Raptors draft well, and then are able to get a true star next year, they'll have an extremely bright future.
    What if they don't draft well, and draft a benchwarmer instead of a true star?

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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    What if they don't draft well, and draft a benchwarmer instead of a true star?
    When you're in the building stages, like the Raptors are, ANY bad decision can really hurt the team. That includes a bad draft, bad trade or bad signing. It's times like these that separate the good GMs from the rest of the pack.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Personally, I fear a repeat of 2006-2007 but I'm not going to harp on it. It will be what it will be and I will still be a fan. Also, it helps having no expectations of the organization. That way, when they screw it up, I won't be disappointed.

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    I like that Cho pointed it out, but honestly, it's not like we didn't have a real live example to learn from the four seasons before this past one. 47, 41, 33, 40. That's how many wins we had before this 22-win doozy. We didn't have a draft pick the first year, but it would have been low, followed by a #15, #9 and #13. The #15 we traded away for O'Neal, and while our #9/#13 didn't turn into a Kobe Bryant type, we were still pretty lucky to get DeRozan and Davis out of those drafts.

    I find it amusing that those arguing, "it's better to try and fail than to wait perpetually in the draft," don't seem to remember the past few years. Kapono, O'Neal, Marion, Turkoglu, Jack -- we retooled year after year and it didn't matter as long as we didn't build a better core through the draft (I liked Bosh, but even Wade/Bryant need the right supporting cast, let alone Bosh). And if people think, "well they should have picked players more wisely," yes, but also we didn't have the cap space to attract anyone. Each year, we could only add via the MLE or via trades, and you don't usually get something for nothing. Anyone who wants us to retool once again is in no position to criticize BC.

    The best part is how people constantly point to teams that are winning, wondering why we suck so much, but also not understanding how those teams got there. Cleveland lucked out with LBJ (though not so lucky now). Orlando lucked out with Dwight. Chicago lucked out with Rose, but also added Noah and Gibson in subsequent drafts. Portland (before the Oden and Roy train wreck) built their entire team through the draft before adding Wallace, and with a lot of high lottery picks as well! Even Miami built their team carefully. It may not have been through the draft, but they went through several lean years to ensure they had the cap room to make a big splash, instead of adding mediocre talent each year. It's like we see these teams and want their results, but don't want any part of how they got there!

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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    I like that Cho pointed it out, but honestly, it's not like we didn't have a real live example to learn from the four seasons before this past one. 47, 41, 33, 40. That's how many wins we had before this 22-win doozy. We didn't have a draft pick the first year, but it would have been low, followed by a #15, #9 and #13. The #15 we traded away for O'Neal, and while our #9/#13 didn't turn into a Kobe Bryant type, we were still pretty lucky to get DeRozan and Davis out of those drafts.

    I find it amusing that those arguing, "it's better to try and fail than to wait perpetually in the draft," don't seem to remember the past few years. Kapono, O'Neal, Marion, Turkoglu, Jack -- we retooled year after year and it didn't matter as long as we didn't build a better core through the draft (I liked Bosh, but even Wade/Bryant need the right supporting cast, let alone Bosh). And if people think, "well they should have picked players more wisely," yes, but also we didn't have the cap space to attract anyone. Each year, we could only add via the MLE or via trades, and you don't usually get something for nothing. Anyone who wants us to retool once again is in no position to criticize BC.

    The best part is how people constantly point to teams that are winning, wondering why we suck so much, but also not understanding how those teams got there. Cleveland lucked out with LBJ (though not so lucky now). Orlando lucked out with Dwight. Chicago lucked out with Rose, but also added Noah and Gibson in subsequent drafts. Portland (before the Oden and Roy train wreck) built their entire team through the draft before adding Wallace, and with a lot of high lottery picks as well! Even Miami built their team carefully. It may not have been through the draft, but they went through several lean years to ensure they had the cap room to make a big splash, instead of adding mediocre talent each year. It's like we see these teams and want their results, but don't want any part of how they got there!
    I've pointed out the very same thing on numerous occasions. I just don't understand why ANY Raptor fan would be happy with the team pushing to make the playoffs next year with the danger of getting on the mediocrity treadmill. Haven't these people been following the Raptors the last 16 years?
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    Jeff Van Gundy in the Pre-Draft show just said the same thing. Better for Charlotte to trade out of the mediocrity bubble that so many Raptors fans want to trade into.

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    This is the third great pick in a row by our GM. Not much teams can say the same

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    Quote Tank wrote: View Post
    Tim, I once heard you say that the Raptors have some good players (DeRozan and Davis) but that they will never be elite players. With no elite player available at the 5th spot in the draft and none of course on the current roster, does the Raptors good but not elite young core mean that they will be mired in mediocrity for quite some time? Isn't every legitimate contending team supposed to have at least 1 elite player? How do you see this playing out for the Raps?
    Casey is very high on DeRozan. During his first press conference when he got hired he mentioned that demar is a superstar caliber player and that he wants to work with him to make it there. I still have faith in both DeMar and Ed to become those type of players.

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    Quote Raúl wrote: View Post
    This is the third great pick in a row by our GM. Not much teams can say the same
    Agree completely. At a time when a mistake would have been costly, and making the "safe" pick would have been a mistake, Colangelo impressed me with this pick.
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    although charlotte did have a serious draft bust that kind of foiled any future plans
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