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Thread: The Official "Welcome to Toronto, Jonas Valanciunas!" thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    I'm going to heavily disagree with you on #2 and #3.

    On one hand, you talk so highly of Raptors fans, yet from your characterization in #2, Raptors fans must be super-naive and new to the NBA if they think GMs make a habit of truthfully releasing into public knowledge who they covet. Not to mention, it also doesn't make Raptors fans look very good if they're so fixated on a certain draft prospect that they would actually be unhappy if someone unexpectedly fell to them.

    #3 is a matter of your personal opinion. Perhaps some other fans share it, but it certainly isn't shared by all. I have no idea how Davis/Johnson/Bargnani playing C by committee is okay but Calderon/Bayless/Barbosa covering the 1 is not. At least Calderon's effect on the team's offense makes up for his defensive deficiencies. Neither Davis nor Johnson are suited to defending the bigger centers in the league, and Bargnani's offensive contribution has yet to exceed his negative impact on the team's defense. SF is probably the biggest hole, but the "knowledgeable fans" would also know that next year has more highly touted SFs than anything else, and almost no bigs. Furthermore, the "knowledgeable fans" would realize that on a team with such little talent, drafting for need instead of the best talent available is a fool's task -- it was a 22-win team after all, nobody should be untouchable.
    #2 Huh. You lost me. Is this an argument for argument's sake. You honestly think the only reason for the reaction is an anti Euro sentiment...really? There was no sell job on Knight? Really? How does it make fans look bad for investing there hopes in a quality player like Knight or Kemba. These are two strong players. Who play a position of weakness for the Raps. The fact that the Raps brought both in, leaked meetings with Knight, through the media and their mouthpieces whom they pay to blog about them... makes Rap fans dumb? How is that? I need to hear how you are superior to the rest of fandom. From where I stand its classic misdirection, which I get. But falling for it doesn't make fans dumb. Maybe naive but when you're talking about groups en masse standards change, people get swept up by an idea.

    #3

    Uh...no.

    My personal opinion was draft Kawhi. If you've read any of my posts (why would you I barely post) I started down that path
    just before March madness... However, I'm okay with the pick. That's MY personal opinion.

    You're on this site more than I. So if I remind you that in nearly every anti-Bargs thread multiple people have suggested exactly what I stated, Center by committee, I shouldn't have to copy and paste thousands of these posts. Remember, I am not trying to give my point of view. I was merely trying to grasp why so many people rejected a pick of a player who was highly touted.

    And yes it is an opinion that we could survive with a Center by committee, but it is a largely supported opinion -which (not that you care) - I do not agree with but adds to the potential list of reasons people reacted how they did.

  2. #62
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    I think this was a great pick, and definitely the right pick. I definitely didn't expect it from Colangelo as he's on a short leash, but Valanciunas is the best prospect in this draft and could end up being the starting center for many years. As for the buy-out, I don't see why it's a problem. He can play in Europe, improve his skills, gain muscle and come to the NBA as a ready player. And with a very likely lockout, it would be a double kill as he'd be playing regular minutes whilst others will be playing pick-up games.

    With next year's draft being very deep, I can see a pretty bright future for the Raptors, I can only hope.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Rookie meductic's Avatar
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    1. This is the least obscure pick of the 3 bigs. I liked Kanter, but both Kanter and Bismack had major question marks, the former having not played and the latter only on the radar since January
    2. No one has said he will not be here next year just that it is problematic
    3. There are no bigs in next year's draft
    4. The kid was viewed as gathering a lot of interest in the last few days and then, like Davis, unexpectedly fell to the raptors.
    Definitely the comittment to the long term that a lot of people on here wanted.
    Last edited by meductic; Fri Jun 24th, 2011 at 07:46 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    #2 Huh. You lost me. Is this an argument for argument's sake. You honestly think the only reason for the reaction is an anti Euro sentiment...really? There was no sell job on Knight? Really? How does it make fans look bad for investing there hopes in a quality player like Knight or Kemba. These are two strong players. Who play a position of weakness for the Raps. The fact that the Raps brought both in, leaked meetings with Knight, through the media and their mouthpieces whom they pay to blog about them... makes Rap fans dumb? How is that? I need to hear how you are superior to the rest of fandom. From where I stand its classic misdirection, which I get. But falling for it doesn't make fans dumb. Maybe naive but when you're talking about groups en masse standards change, people get swept up by an idea.

    #3

    Uh...no.

    My personal opinion was draft Kawhi. If you've read any of my posts (why would you I barely post) I started down that path
    just before March madness... However, I'm okay with the pick. That's MY personal opinion.

    You're on this site more than I. So if I remind you that in nearly every anti-Bargs thread multiple people have suggested exactly what I stated, Center by committee, I shouldn't have to copy and paste thousands of these posts. Remember, I am not trying to give my point of view. I was merely trying to grasp why so many people rejected a pick of a player who was highly touted.

    And yes it is an opinion that we could survive with a Center by committee, but it is a largely supported opinion -which (not that you care) - I do not agree with but adds to the potential list of reasons people reacted how they did.
    Not sure why you're so offended. I'm saying you're not giving the "knowledgeable fans" enough credit. You're saying they fell for some kind of sell job; I'm saying they aren't that gullible.

    And the rest... I'm not sure what the point of your anecdotal evidence is. Those very same anti-Bargnani threads also probably pushed replacing him more than using him in a slightly reduced role. Drafting a replacement big who is the very opposite of Bargnani and does all the things fans have been wanting from a center would be one step closer to that goal.

    Here's my revision of your 3 points:

    1. Dissatisfaction with Bargnani unfairly prejudicing fans against all non-NCAA players. (what you said)

    2. Lack of personal knowledge regarding Valanciunas' prospects.

    3. Adamant overconfidence in personal qualifications as a GM or NBA scout.

    Just my opinion and you're free to disagree with it as I did yours.

    I've said many times before that I was unsure about Valanciunas, but the only reason why I'm not breaking my TV is because I'm not cocky enough to think that despite my lack of knowledge re: Valanciunas' game, that I somehow know better than BC, who has had a very good draft record outside of Bargnani.
    Last edited by Quixotic; Fri Jun 24th, 2011 at 07:07 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote DG88 wrote: View Post
    Love the pick, I say he could become Tyson Chandler and that would be huge for us
    Chandler was a major bust for his first 5 years in the league, he was supposed to be alonzo morning instead he was worse than eddy curry.

    So if we have to wait 5 years with jonas congrats to fans of derozan and Davis, they'll be on good teams by then. Maybe some place warm.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Numerous thoughts:

    1) Jonas has been hyped as the player with the MOST upside in the draft,

    2) he has the game of a true NBA-stereotypical C which is something TOR has never had,

    3) the only thing he and Bargnani have in common are colour, continent, and good foul shooting,

    4) if it was even possible, I do have more respect for BC now than before the draft,

    5) if he doesn't come over right away I don't think it will make an impact on the win total next year nor would have Knight, Walker, Biyombo, Kanter - this is a pick that is all about the future and hopefully the Raps just acquired a player that can man the middle for the next 12 years,

    6) Calderon is 1a and Bargnani is 1b on my trade list,

    7) the Raptors will hopefully be in a position to get a true franchise player next year - the core is set, we need a stud.

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Rookie Captain Haddock's Avatar
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    Can his intro music be "My name is Jonas" by Weezer? I would die happy.

    Solid pick, tons of upside, good words like motor and high iq are being tossed around, potentially the best C? Awesome sauce.
    "Come back, Lisa, you little love killer...Come back Lisa, Lisa Lisamiller."
    -Newsradio

  8. #68
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    Quote Captain Haddock wrote: View Post
    Can his intro music be "My name is Jonas" by Weezer? I would die happy.

    Solid pick, tons of upside, good words like motor and high iq are being tossed around, potentially the best C? Awesome sauce.
    Exactly.

    For the chance to build a contender, I am fine with waiting 1 year for him to get over and another 2-3 to develop.

    The Raptors are starting to resemble a contending team if players develop to their potential with a starting SG (DD), PF (ED), and C (JV), if Bayless can average 18/7 and play with more composure over 82 games we have a starting PG, and a rotational wing in JJ and a big in Amir.

    Maybe Alabi can become a back up C - big maybe.

    Hopefully Kleiza makes a Amar'e-like comeback and is another solid bench player.

    Most importantly - hopefully next year brings a franchise talent to Toronto on the wing.

    The next year or two are going to be difficult but the future is very bright.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Really unsexy pick. That said, it was the best pick and I applaud BC for doing it. Raps finally have a franchise center. In a couple years it's going to be very, very hard to score on our frontcourt.

    (I'm assuming Bargs gets traded)
    @jerboat

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Quixotic wrote: View Post
    Come on. Bargnani and Valanciunas are nothing alike.
    What i meant was Bargnani was pretty much the same before he was drafted, a young, unknown talent in the eyes of a casual fan, who was quite successful in europe, untested in the US but had tremendous potential.

    Ive seen the highlights and play-wise, theyre at opposite ends of the spectrum. But right now, the casual fan really doesnt see that. All they see is another european big with tremendous potential who may or may not make it in the NBA.

    For me, its a really good acquisition. Euro players are well known as bruisers, so for a player who is only 19 who DOES play his position is a good pick. If JV and Bargnani developed at the same time with the Raps, it wouldve probably been a good combination but i think waiting for JV to develop then putting him beside Bargnani wouldnt be as good anymore. Im guessing by the time JV arrives in Toronto, Bargnani will be long gone.

  11. #71
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    7) the Raptors will hopefully be in a position to get a true franchise player next year - the core is set, we need a stud.
    This is the reason why despite not being very high on Valanciunas, I think the move was one that needed to be made. People always point to the Pistons and how they didn't have a franchise player and still won; well, the one thing they had that we definitely don't have was the amazing Ben Wallace. They weren't as untalented as people make them out to be. If we want to contend, we need to take risks.

    It's much more fun watching a team develop than watching a team hit their ceiling as an easy first round exit every year.

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I wholeheartedly agree with my name is Jonas as intro music and wish I thought of that myself
    @jerboat

  13. #73
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    Quote tbihis wrote: View Post
    What i meant was Bargnani was pretty much the same before he was drafted, a young, unknown talent in the eyes of a casual fan, who was quite successful in europe, untested in the US but had tremendous potential.

    Ive seen the highlights and play-wise, theyre at opposite ends of the spectrum. But right now, the casual fan really doesnt see that. All they see is another european big with tremendous potential who may or may not make it in the NBA.

    For me, its a really good acquisition. Euro players are well known as bruisers, so for a player who is only 19 who DOES play his position is a good pick. If JV and Bargnani developed at the same time with the Raps, it wouldve probably been a good combination but i think waiting for JV to develop then putting him beside Bargnani wouldnt be as good anymore. Im guessing by the time JV arrives in Toronto, Bargnani will be long gone.
    Fair enough.

    And at this point, even though I've never been a Bargnani-Hater, I would much rather see the franchise move forward with Davis and Valanciunas.

  14. #74
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    I think this was an excellent pick, and the one I was hoping for. I would have been ticked if Cleveland got both Irving and JV. I would also have been ticked if Colangelo had wimped out and drafted Kemba or Leonard just to appease fans who make their decisions based on internet discussions and Youtube mix tapes. Did anyone notice that Leonard went #15, and was traded for George Hill?? For those of you who would have been happy with Colangelo taking Leonard at #5, how would you have liked him trading the #5 pick for George Hill? For those of you who seem most interested in the value of the pick for next season, Kemba might look good (along with Vesely), but they are already 21 and I doubt that Knight or others take below #5 will make much impact next year. Good that Colangelo thought about the longer term interests of the franchise rather than short term solutions.

  15. #75
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    I think this was an excellent pick, and the one I was hoping for. I would have been ticked if Cleveland got both Irving and JV. I would also have been ticked if Colangelo had wimped out and drafted Kemba or Leonard just to appease fans who make their decisions based on internet discussions and Youtube mix tapes. Did anyone notice that Leonard went #15, and was traded for George Hill?? For those of you who would have been happy with Colangelo taking Leonard at #5, how would you have liked him trading the #5 pick for George Hill? For those of you who seem most interested in the value of the pick for next season, Kemba might look good (along with Vesely), but they are already 21 and I doubt that Knight or others take below #5 will make much impact next year. Good that Colangelo thought about the longer term interests of the franchise rather than short term solutions.
    It was actually worse than that. Leonard was essentially traded with two second rounders for Leonard.

    A while ago, people kept asking what made Leonard 10 picks better than Singleton. Seems like they were right, as Leonard went #15 and Singleton went #18. Givony remarked during the draft that Leonard is a good pick in the teens, but wouldn't have been a good pick in the top 10. Not to say he's trash, but lots of people were talking like he was a surefire Gerald Wallace and AK47. GMs obviously didn't think that highly of him. Wasn't even traded straight-up for George Hill.

  16. #76
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I'm gonna boo him in his first game here.

    I wonder where Colangelo will be working at that point.
    Wow dude. Ignorant, there is no reason to be such a way. Try a coke and a smile...

  17. #77
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    For those who want some further analysis of Valanciunas, look here: http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...board-centers/

    In this analysis he is ranked as the top center prospect, ahead of Kanter. Here are some excerpts:

    You ask college scouts, GMs and other NBA types about Jonas Valanciunas, and you hear the same sentence, over and over. He plays hard. And that is what excites so many about the now 19-year-old Lithuanian.
    "Whoever gets him, they're going to have a player," gushes a Pacific Division executive. "First of all, he has a motor. He plays hard and he has a huge (7-foot-6) wingspan. The only thing right now is he's light in the (behind). But he's got great hands. He's not a stiff; he's got a touch. He runs. Whether he can contain the post right now, I don't know; he's so light. But he's got a lot of (stuff) going for him."
    Said a Pacific scout: "I really love the kid. He's not the greatest athlete in the world, but neither is Marc Gasol. He is really skilled. His upside is off the charts. And he's Lithuanian, so he really likes to play. He is so talented, and the first to practice and the last to leave every day. He's probably not as ready to play as Kanter because Kanter is physically more mature, but Kanter has a ceiling."

  18. #78
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I'm gonna boo him in his first game here.

    I wonder where Colangelo will be working at that point.

    Boooooooooooo U

  19. #79
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    Quote jk1m wrote: View Post
    Correct me if I'm mistaken but doesn't Jonas have similar attributes and physical measurements to Joakim Noah with a softer touch and a better free throw percentage?...
    Yah seriously 90% for a big man!

  20. #80
    Raptors Republic Rookie Rapzilla's Avatar
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    Okay, okay.... so what about nicknames?! 'V for Vendetta'? 'Sweet Valley High'?

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