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Thread: So Bayless is the future PG?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote Maleko wrote: View Post
    As Marz said it was his attitude at the draft last night. From the reading of him and watching interviews until now I would have agreed he appeared to have character, but his immaturity last night (surprising since I did do all the research previously) was an eye opener. Perhaps heat of the moment, but wow he turned me off his character very quickly.
    I think you're right with thinking it was heat of the moment. And if that's what would turn you off I can only imagine your thoughts on the rest of the league. I wish you were at Real Sports for the Raptors season ticket holders draft party. You would probley have Demar and Ed out the door ASAP. People make mistakes but it's the body of work/consistency that should measure character not one time (although be it in front of the world and an awful time to slip up or show emotion).

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post
    Their stats in college were very close, but Bayless was a notch better. His PER was 23.7 compared to Knight's 19.2.

    Bayless had a FG% of 45.8% and 3FG% of 40.7%. Knight's had a FG% 42.3% and 37.7% 3FG%. Bayless' pure point rating: -0.85. Knight's is -1.10. Bayless, at 25.3% also a had slightly higher usage rate than Knight, 24.3%. Knight's a lot longer and beat him in the lane agility, but Bayless is a much better ball handler, and can jump a bit higher. But their measurements, again are alike. (All of this is from DE.)

    Kemba's much more like Ford/Lawson. And he was FORCED into a scoring role, using 30.7% of Uconn's possessions. That's KD/Westbrook territory, it won't be remotely close to that in the NBA.
    Neither Knight or DeRozan are: Good...even decent playmakers, have the ability to go left, good ball handlers. We'll lead the league in turnovers, and be bottom 5 in ASTs.

    Neither Kemba or DeRozan are: Decent 3-point shooters. Need I say more here? He plays like Ford, who a lot of you hate, despite that he was well on his way to being the best PG that the team had before his injury.

    Frankly, not believing in Bayless, or not being willing to take a flyer on him considering that he put up 18/7/4 and excellent efficiency when he started and then suggesting that we draft a similar player in Walker (and especially) Knight is lunacy.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie Tony West's Avatar
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    I've always been of the opinion that Brandon Knight had more of an upside than Kemba, and for that reason he would be the smart pic. I must say though, I don't like his energy when being interviewed, he seems like he sulks and pouts his way through the day. I'm not so sure Toronto would warm to him..I would bet that his attitude played a role in him dropping in the draft - I didn't even like his demeanor when he was being interviewed in Toronto for the workouts..just sayin.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Rookie Tank's Avatar
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    They'll probably be good pros, but with Knight and Kemba, it was mostly just politics.

    Knight being a Calipari point guard from Kentucky, and Kemba being a NCAA champion.

    They were once high on my board, but Biyombo really grew on me later on and he was probably my first pick, that is until I learned more about Valanciunas, which is now the better choice.

  5. #25
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    Does this mean if Colangelo didn't draft Valanciunas, that Alabi was the future center? If not, I'm not sure how one thing is connected to the other.
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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Andy in Big City:
    In Toronto there is a debate of who to start at pg: Jose Calderon or Jarred Bayless If you were the coach of the Raptors, how do you divide the minutes at point guard and why?

    Lang Greene:
    Bayless 30 minutes. Calderon 18 minutes.

    Time to see if the youngster is the poing guard of the future. Raptor nation already knows Calderon's limit.

    I set the youngster loose and then sit back to see if he can hack it.


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  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    well bayless was a lottery pick that didn't get much playing time in Portland or New orleans because of Andre miller and CP3. I think he could be a great PG, Imo he'll end up being way better than Jose. Let him start next season with like 30 MPG and he'll tear it up. He averaged 18/7 as a starter last season so i think he'll do great.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    whil he's not going to average close to those numbers with a full season as starter. i'm pretty confident in that.
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  9. #29
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    well bayless was a lottery pick that didn't get much playing time in Portland or New orleans because of Andre miller and CP3. I think he could be a great PG, Imo he'll end up being way better than Jose. Let him start next season with like 30 MPG and he'll tear it up. He averaged 18/7 as a starter last season so i think he'll do great.
    Bayless was expected to at least compete for second string minutes, and he had trouble doing that. In his rookie season he had Steve Blake and Sergio Rodriguez ahead of him, and still couldn't make it past the third string. The next year, they signed Andre Miller and then traded Blake to give Bayless minutes at backup, but didn't perform well, so they traded him. And then he couldn't hold down the backup PG position well enough in New Orleans, so they gave up on him.

    I still think he's got potential, but it's not just lack of playing time that made both Portland and New Orleans give up on him. And while he's put up good stats when given minutes in Toronto, he's still got A LOT to learn about running an offense. Basic stats don't tell the whole story. Especially for a PG.
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  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i agree. he's alright... but hasn't actually shown he can really run the team. all i got from last season was he was a "put up points on a bad team" type player and could only do that after calderon got shut down. i like him more in barbosas role. i think bc didn't take a pg (outside of the fact we got a franchise center) because none of the ones on the board seem like they'll ever be allstars, and if you're taking a player at #5 they better end up pretty fucking good, weak draft or not. i like kemba and i like knight but i'll be surprised if they ever make a allstar team much less get mentioned in the top 10 pg coversation. knight maybe, but it'll be way down the road.
    @jerboat

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    this year however is where the real treasure can be had. if the raps somehow finagle another 1st round pick and take a pg to go along with whatever sf we end up with i'll be pleased as punch.
    @jerboat

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i do think though that getting a solid vet would do some good to help mentor bayless/whoever we might end up getting through the draft or whatever. i like jose and think hes a solid player and will never wish any ill will towards him when he finally gets moved but the team needs a leader at the point. calderons got the skills but i don't know about his head.
    @jerboat

  13. #33
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i do think though that getting a solid vet would do some good to help mentor bayless/whoever we might end up getting through the draft or whatever. i like jose and think hes a solid player and will never wish any ill will towards him when he finally gets moved but the team needs a leader at the point. calderons got the skills but i don't know about his head.
    His head? What do you mean by that. Calderon has shown himself to be a solid influence on the club, and has been one of the few Raptors to show any leadership abilities. If it weren't for his age, I could see him being the long term solution at PG for the Raptors.
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  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I have a feeling we're going to see a situation similar to the one we had when TJ Ford was here. The two of them (Jose and Jared) will likely split minutes almost evenly, depending on matchups, to give us changes of pace. This will be an important year for Jared and I think it will be his last chance to make enough of a name for himself that he'll be able to have a career. That's what I expect anyway, who knows what Coach Casey is thinking.
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  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    i think all he needs is some proper training and practice. If the coaching staff can work with him on the things he needs to improve on (i.e running the offense, passing etc...) then he'll do great. He also needs to figure out how his teammates like to play and develop better chemistry with them. I have high hopes for him next season

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    His head? What do you mean by that. Calderon has shown himself to be a solid influence on the club, and has been one of the few Raptors to show any leadership abilities. If it weren't for his age, I could see him being the long term solution at PG for the Raptors.
    well he's a great passer, but he can't score for s*** he just doesn't look for his shots and he doesn't have the athletisism to get to the rim and finish in traffic. Bayless is still very young(i think only 22),he has quickness and athletisism, and he has shown that he can pass effectively if he tries.

  17. #37
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    well he's a great passer, but he can't score for s*** he just doesn't look for his shots and he doesn't have the athletisism to get to the rim and finish in traffic. Bayless is still very young(i think only 22),he has quickness and athletisism, and he has shown that he can pass effectively if he tries.
    Calderon is a pass first PG. Quite frankly, there's no nearly enough of those in the NBA, nowadays. Generally, Calderon is able to score enough to keep defenses honest. And that's fine for a PG. Would it be nice if Calderon were better at getting to the rim and being able to finish in traffic? Sure. Is it necessary for your PG to do that? No. What's far, far more important than a PG that scores or gets to the rim is one who knows how to run an offense and make his teammates better. And Calderon is incredibly underrated at this among most Raptors fans. These are the same fans who were clamouring to get a guy like Rodney Stuckey, who does get to the rim and finish in traffic. Unfortunately he has no idea how to run and offense and make his teammates better.

    Bayless certainly has the physical abilities and even many of the skills that fans covet, but he's still a LONG ways off from being a real PG. Most of the assists he gets are drive and dishes, not running the offense. There are several problems with this. The first is that he's not getting his assists in the flow of the offense. Unless your PG is Derrick Rose, it usually means an inefficient offense that is not diverse and prone to long draughts. It also makes it very easily defended. Calderon, for all his faults, is a very good PG.
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  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    As a long time Calderon supporter I do feel like I should point out that I was impressed by Bayless' defense as a starter the last stretch of games. I would probably start bayless and would split their minutes 27 21
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  19. #39
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    As a long time Calderon supporter I do feel like I should point out that I was impressed by Bayless' defense as a starter the last stretch of games. I would probably start bayless and would split their minutes 27 21
    Let me just clarify my position on the PG situation. I have no problem whatsoever with giving Bayless more minutes next season. However much I like Calderon, his age makes it unlikely that he can be in the long term plans of the Raptors even if they wanted him to be. Bayless is still quite young with a lot of potential. He's in a perfect situation, right now, where development of players takes precedence over wins, so forcefeeding him minutes isn't a problem. I wouldn't hand him the starting spot, but certainly let him compete for it. If he is deserving, give him more minutes as the season goes on and see how he develops. By the end of the season, the Raptors should be able to tell whether he is capable of becoming a top 15 PG.
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  20. #40
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    Bayless still needs to mature quite a bit before we can start calling him our starting point guard of the future. His competitiveness is one of his greatest assets but he also lets it get out of control on a somewhat regular basis. He's prone to getting sucked into glorified games of 1-on-1 against opposing point guards (aka TJ Ford Syndrome), his body language and attitude is often poor when he's subbed out of the game or not getting the minutes he feels he deserves, and he's already worn out his welcome on two playoff teams because he was reportedly unhappy with the amount of time he was receiving.

    Bayless really struggled with coming off the bench last year. He'd get in the game and would be so anxious to make a play that he'd often turn it over or force up a couple of bad shots before getting the hook again. Of course, this would just make him even more upset and he'd normally follow up his first stretch of playing time with a similarly poor second crack at it. Like I said before, I think this ultimately stems from his competitiveness but at some point you have to be able to reign that in and be a pro if you want to really make an impact in this league.

    There's no doubt that the kid is talented. Just take a look at his high school and college pedigree. But there's much more to being a good player in the NBA than just possessing the physical tools, especially at the PG spot. He'll get plenty of opportunities this season because his poor behavior can fall through the cracks on a lottery bound team with not much talent, but I wouldn't appoint him out point guard for the next 7 years just yet. He's got to prove something to me this year.

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