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Matt52 wrote: View PostUnfortunately the other side is based on prejudices that are unwarranted. Everything Raptors' fans want in their players they are getting, and more, from Jonas.
On the second point, let's wait until he is over and actually playing in NBA games before we unequivocally state what it is that he is bringing to Toronto.
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slaw wrote: View PostYes, anyone who isn't crazy about this pick just is full of unwarranted prejudice. Why must someone who disagrees with you have the worst of motives and characteristics attributed to them? You have no skepticism at all about a 7'0, 19-year old who weighs 230pounds, who you've never watched play a full game, and who is years away from contributing? None at all? Totally sold that he's a franchise centre? And if I'm filled with even a little skepticism I'm a bigot? Come on. The Raptors have been burned time and time again drafting int'l bigs and now they've... drafted an int'l big. It's somehow an abnormal reaction for people to go, 'here we go again'? I don't think it is.
On the second point, let's wait until he is over and actually playing in NBA games before we unequivocally state what it is that he is bringing to Toronto.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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bloodyhandedgod wrote: View PostSince when does someone rate a Draft based on how it will help right now? And that is still not right. We now have a player who has a high upside that we would have to trade away to lose. We're a better team right now for it.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostYou don't have skepticism about every other player the Raptors could have chosen? Valanciunas certainly has a few question marks, but so did everyone else, including Kemba and Knight. That was the main thing about this draft, there were really no safe picks.
The other point that people like Grange (even though his hackey, faux morally superior, leftie leanings are on full display), DNB and others are alluding to (that I and others here raised before the draft) is that this reaction was entirely predictable. Not every Raptor fan is a hardcore draft junkie. Most never heard of this guy and have never seen him play. What they understand is that he measures out a lot like a certain current Raptor and they just shake their heads and say, 'here we go again'. The ghosts of Bargnani, Araujo, et al. are going to haunt this kid. When, or if, he gets to the NBA, one bad game and he is going to get ripped to pieces.
It's fine to say that the right pick isn't the popular one (I have no idea since I've never seen this guy play) but this is a 22-win team with declining attendance that is facing a lockout and looks to be bad for a very long time. There are two ways to quickly become irrelevant as a business: put out a crappy product and thumb your nose in your customers' collective face. The Raptors need to tread carefully.
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All players at the draft are subject to skepticism. However, many people close to the situation wondered where JV would be without the buyout situation. He was a player that was going to shoot up regardless while both Kemba and Knight shot down and they're ready to play this coming season. What does that tell you about Jonas (who was rated higher than Enes in some boards)? Yes, Araujo was painful and Andrea is still a pain for me. But to paint every white European in the same light is unfair.“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
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slaw wrote: View PostMy point is that a lot of 'you're a racist', 'you're a bigot' accusations are getting tossed around at a lot of fans who simply don't like the pick. This is ridiculous. It's an easy way to shut down people but it isn't true and it's unfair.
The other point that people like Grange (even though his hackey, faux morally superior, leftie leanings are on full display), DNB and others are alluding to (that I and others here raised before the draft) is that this reaction was entirely predictable. Not every Raptor fan is a hardcore draft junkie. Most never heard of this guy and have never seen him play. What they understand is that he measures out a lot like a certain current Raptor and they just shake their heads and say, 'here we go again'. The ghosts of Bargnani, Araujo, et al. are going to haunt this kid. When, or if, he gets to the NBA, one bad game and he is going to get ripped to pieces.
It's fine to say that the right pick isn't the popular one (I have no idea since I've never seen this guy play) but this is a 22-win team with declining attendance that is facing a lockout and looks to be bad for a very long time. There are two ways to quickly become irrelevant as a business: put out a crappy product and thumb your nose in your customers' collective face. The Raptors need to tread carefully.
My feeling, though, is if you aren't a fan who's very knowledgeable, then why the hell do you think you know better than the guy running the team with two Executive of the Year awards? I think what's wrong is that uninformed people don't seem to understand they don't know anything. And apparently aren't afraid of looking stupid.
That's not to say you can't have legitimate concerns about drafting him, but most of the people that seem to HATE the pick simply have no idea what they're talking about, and it's unfortunate that they believe they need to voice their opinion. Generally if I'm not informed about something, I don't spout off about it pretending like I do.
(Keep in mind, this is not directed at you.)Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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grindhouse wrote: View Postkahn was not riped for drafting rubio? we don't get a pass on this oneRead my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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Tim W. wrote: View PostYou're also likely wrong because of the fact that Valanciunas was the consensus best player available (by most respected basketball people), and, well, because you usually seem to be."I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"
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Apollo wrote: View Post
book mark my words all you lovers of Yi Darko and Nikoloz Tskitishvili - see you in 3-5 years ... have your apologies ready. All together now " ONLY DRAFT NCAA PROVEN TALENT ""I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"
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slaw wrote: View PostYes, anyone who isn't crazy about this pick just is full of unwarranted prejudice. Why must someone who disagrees with you have the worst of motives and characteristics attributed to them? You have no skepticism at all about a 7'0, 19-year old who weighs 230pounds, who you've never watched play a full game, and who is years away from contributing? None at all? Totally sold that he's a franchise centre? And if I'm filled with even a little skepticism I'm a bigot? Come on. The Raptors have been burned time and time again drafting int'l bigs and now they've... drafted an int'l big. It's somehow an abnormal reaction for people to go, 'here we go again'? I don't think it is.
On the second point, let's wait until he is over and actually playing in NBA games before we unequivocally state what it is that he is bringing to Toronto.
Did you read the comment to which I replied? Disagreeing with me is hardly an issue - people do it frequently and I am happy to exchange views. Your questioning of my comment after watching the Euro-centric bashing today is ridiculous.
Actually, no you are not a bigot because your criticisms are basketball based - lack of size, years away from contributing - and are valid.
What I would suggest you do is look through the posts today and see how many people are commenting, directly or indirectly, on nothing more than his birthplace, upbringing, and skin colour. The guy is about as different from Bargnani as one can get yet he is getting crucified before ever showing up here - the only similarity is the high percentage from the charity stripe.
Is he a franchise centre? I don't know but there are plenty of people with more experience and expertise than myself (outside the Raptors organization) who seem to think so. Many have claimed he could be the top player from this draft when it is all said and done.
As for the getting burned on international bigs, here is the draft history of the Raps:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...TOR/draft.html
Getting burned on international bigs? You call drafting Bargnani getting burned? While he was #1 he is still the second best in the top 5 and top 5 of the entire draft that year - hardly a burn despite his flaws. You call drafting Bavcic and Slokar busts at 56 and 58? Seriously - 56 and 58? Araujo was a bust, no doubt, and also picked by one of the worst GM's ever, yet managed to return Kris Humphries in a subsequent trade by BC. Ukic was not an NBA player but he filled a role as a third stringer and returned value in a trade by BC.
So with those international draft picks out of the way, besides Araujo, we are left with one international draft pick that truly was a bust and that was in 1999. Personally, the Araujo fiasco that was Babcock should be deleted from all Raptors fans.
Now what about our American draft picks - specifically bigs. Camby? 2 years and gone. Bradley? Up there with Kapano in horrible contracts. Charlie V? UConn flavoured Bargnani. Davis? Awesome.
The draft is a crap shoot. Remember how highly all these guys are thought of today and look at where draft picks of 1 and 2 years ago are today in people's perceptions. Where they are from should be little more than a footnote. Many fans are making it the whole story and that is the problem.
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charlz wrote: View Post
book mark my words all you lovers of Yi Darko and Nikoloz Tskitishvili - see you in 3-5 years ... have your apologies ready. All together now " ONLY DRAFT NCAA PROVEN TALENT "
That is not even paying attention to guards or wings.
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