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Thread: Draft Review From The Media

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Rookie Raúl's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Gregg Popovich was offering up Tony Parker and other pieces in an attempt to move up to draft Jonas Valanciunas. It's been reported that they were looking to draft him to become a successor to Tim Duncan. That's high praise from a franchise who seems to always draft studs no matter where they are.
    That's right. The San Antonio interest has to some hype to Jonas. I know that most Raptors fans watched Kemba and Knight played all year. But if we select Kanter you wouldn't be like that. And Kanter never played a single game this season. That's just unfair to the kid.

    Plus, I watched him play all year in Lithania and in the Euroleague and he's already a good rebounder and a terrific finisher. If he comes right away he'll have a Noah-type of role. 10pts 10 reb.
    And I also watch Biyombo play in a middle pack ACB team, I never understood where all the hype came from. You saying that wanted the Raptors select Biyombo over Jonas, tell me you have no idea. Again, I can't talk about Kemba and Brandon because I never saw him play, but saying that Biyombo is better than Jonas is talking without a clue

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    Quote bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
    Since when does someone rate a Draft based on how it will help right now? And that is still not right. We now have a player who has a high upside that we would have to trade away to lose. We're a better team right now for it.
    Agreed.

    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    The f rating is cause we didnt do anything for this year
    What, were we going to blaze a trail in the playoffs this year with another pick? Building a team, usually, takes time and the right players. I believe JV is one of those pieces, and we should still have a decent pick next year for the last pick that should matter in the rebuild.

  3. #43
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    Quote Raúl wrote: View Post
    That's right. The San Antonio interest has to some hype to Jonas. I know that most Raptors fans watched Kemba and Knight played all year. But if we select Kanter you wouldn't be like that. And Kanter never played a single game this season. That's just unfair to the kid.

    Plus, I watched him play all year in Lithania and in the Euroleague and he's already a good rebounder and a terrific finisher. If he comes right away he'll have a Noah-type of role. 10pts 10 reb.
    And I also watch Biyombo play in a middle pack ACB team, I never understood where all the hype came from. You saying that wanted the Raptors select Biyombo over Jonas, tell me you have no idea. Again, I can't talk about Kemba and Brandon because I never saw him play, but saying that Biyombo is better than Jonas is talking without a clue
    I am one who has been/is caught up in the Biyombo hype. I would have loved to select Biyombo, in fact getting another pick and getting Biyombo and Kemba was my ideal before the draft (f*$cking Jordan!) but no way I would take Biyombo over Valenciunas. JV is a much better pick here for long term, greater upside and better base of skills. Very happy with the pick.

  4. #44
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    Quote Captain Haddock wrote: View Post
    Bold move, sir. You are more like Colangelo than you think.
    Maybe. But I also never would have picked Bargnani or signed Turkoglu. I am in complete agreement with his last three lottery picks, though. I also thought Alabi was a good pick that might still payoff.
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    yes I am likely wrong because after all Brians '... phone has been blowing up with all the other GM's in the league telling [him] how wonderful the pick is...'
    You're also likely wrong because of the fact that Valanciunas was the consensus best player available (by most respected basketball people), and, well, because you usually seem to be.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Maybe. But I also never would have picked Bargnani or signed Turkoglu. I am in complete agreement with his last three lottery picks, though. I also thought Alabi was a good pick that might still payoff.
    I agree about Turk, but who else would you have picked instead of Bargs? Aldridge was so much like Bosh that it would have been Charlie Villanueva all over again. BC mentioned that he couldn't trade down because no one offered a good enough package. A year before that draft it was the "Gay sweepstakes" but for some reason his stock dropped. So really, it had to be Bargs...

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter imaginelino's Avatar
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    Does Jonas Valanciunas project to be the best all around C in this draft and f not for his buyout would he have gone higher?

    Ric Bucher (1:29 PM): If teams knew he was fully available, he would've been the No. 1 pick.

  8. #48
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    I think there are a couple of good signs with picking Jonas.

    For starters, some people thought BC would try to make this team better quickly because of his two year contract. Some said, because of that, he needs a good year in his last year, meaning get in the playoffs. I don't think the Jonas-pick, if he doesn't come over this year, is suited for that goal. And if we have another lotterybound year, it's unlikely even a good draft next year and adding Jonas would immediately result in a playoff place. So, maybe BC is really trying to make this team better in the long run instead of making the team better now.

    I also agree with others on here that good centers are relatively sparse in the league. A good center is pivotal for having a good defense. From what I've read Jonas has good defensive skills. Regardless of what team (or position) AB will play on next year or the year after, the defense at the center position needs drastic improvement. I do consider this a change of culture, much more than the selection of a scoring guard like Kemba Walker. Not a change from European to (North) American, but a change to getting defensively capable players and a change from trying to get better now to getting really better, by drafting for the future; a change which already started midway last year.

    And for some posters: Europe is pretty big and very diverse; most Italians (or Dutch like me) probably can't even point out Lithuania on a map, have never been there, have never met someone from Lithuania and don't know anything about Lithuanian culture and cannot name a single famous person in Lithuania. It's not like it's one big melting pot.

    One last add: Jonathan Tjarks on realgm, who usually writes very interesting blogs, had a piece about drafting for mediocrity which might be applied to the Jonas-pick as well: http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/21...rity_Treadmill

  9. #49
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    I agree about Turk, but who else would you have picked instead of Bargs? Aldridge was so much like Bosh that it would have been Charlie Villanueva all over again. BC mentioned that he couldn't trade down because no one offered a good enough package. A year before that draft it was the "Gay sweepstakes" but for some reason his stock dropped. So really, it had to be Bargs...
    Aldridge was the guy I hoped Colangelo would have picked. Yes, he did duplicate Bosh in many respects, but I just thought he would be a better player, and that's what was most important for me. I just thought Bargnani's lack of defense and rebounding would end up haunting him throughout his career. And it appears I've been right about that.

    A lot of people were talking about Gay, and while I certainly liked him better than Bargnani, I was hesitant about him because of questions about his desire.
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    Quote TheR3dMenace wrote: View Post
    This shit angers me to no end.... especially because it is a commonly held belief in raptorland too, where hockey culture and Don Cherry-esque xenophobia still rears its ugly head. Say what you want about his team-building skills, but BC certainly has an eye for talent and an almost flawless draft history:

    Michael Finley
    Steve Nash
    Stephen Jackson
    Shawn Marion
    Amare Stoudemire
    Luol Deng
    Nate Robinson
    Marcin Gortat
    Andrea Bargnani
    Roy Hibbert
    DeMar DeRozan
    Ed Davis
    Roy Hibbert wasn't his pick but I agree.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I think there are a couple of good signs with picking Jonas.

    For starters, some people thought BC would try to make this team better quickly because of his two year contract. Some said, because of that, he needs a good year in his last year, meaning get in the playoffs. I don't think the Jonas-pick, if he doesn't come over this year, is suited for that goal. And if we have another lotterybound year, it's unlikely even a good draft next year and adding Jonas would immediately result in a playoff place. So, maybe BC is really trying to make this team better in the long run instead of making the team better now.

    I also agree with others on here that good centers are relatively sparse in the league. A good center is pivotal for having a good defense. From what I've read Jonas has good defensive skills. Regardless of what team (or position) AB will play on next year or the year after, the defense at the center position needs drastic improvement. I do consider this a change of culture, much more than the selection of a scoring guard like Kemba Walker. Not a change from European to (North) American, but a change to getting defensively capable players and a change from trying to get better now to getting really better, by drafting for the future; a change which already started midway last year.

    And for some posters: Europe is pretty big and very diverse; most Italians (or Dutch like me) probably can't even point out Lithuania on a map, have never been there, have never met someone from Lithuania and don't know anything about Lithuanian culture and cannot name a single famous person in Lithuania. It's not like it's one big melting pot.

    One last add: Jonathan Tjarks on realgm, who usually writes very interesting blogs, had a piece about drafting for mediocrity which might be applied to the Jonas-pick as well: http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/21...rity_Treadmill
    Welcome, Soft Euro. Best new name in a long time.

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  12. #52
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Ric Bucher just said Jonas Valanciunas would have been #1 pick but the buyout:

    http://raptorsrepublic.tumblr.com/po...ould-be-1-pick

  13. #53
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    As people probably know from my posts, I don't think bargs providing a lot of production vs. what he gets paid. However, if you go back and look at that draft class who do you take ahead of him? Aldridge was a definite possibility, but it looks like more and more Roy's knees are going to be finished sooner rather than later. After that who would you like to have?

    Rudy Gay @ 8
    J.J. Redick @ 11
    Rajon Rondo @ 21

    Obiviously the hindsight pick is Rondo, but there's no way you can take him w/ the #1 overall. After that it becomes a questions of whose better, Bargs, Aldridge, Gay, or Roy?

    POB got picked @ 9. That's how bad this draft was.

    I'd swap Aldridge for Bargs, but w/ gay I'd be on the fence about it. Considering the Blazers are asking Roy to retire I'd doubt that'd be a good trade to make. The more I look at that draft class the more I blame bargs and coangelo less and the basketball gods more. Maybe Big Val will be our big karma payback?
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  14. #54
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    Really like the Dino Nation Blog's analysis of the draft pick:

    Another thing that bothers me is the lack of respect for the overall knowledge of this fanbase. I heard the example used of how fans booed the pick of Damon Stoudamire and the crowd at Skydome chanting for Ed O'Bannon. The fan base is far more educated from those days and the amount of access they have to information and the ability to watch guys play in the NCAA. Back in the days of mighty mouse there were not many that got to see him play out at Arizona. But times have changed and this fan base is far more educated and have much stronger opinions with that knowledge behind them.

    While some praise Colangelo for his guts in making this pick. I am not one of them. Ultimately the Raptors can try and avoid the elephant in the room all they like but it is still there. For the Raptors ultimately to be successful they need to be able to make this an attractive destination for Americans to come here and after tonight maybe finally a Canadian or two. That is the problem this franchise has faced for 16 years. Colangelo I give credit for trying his Euro experiment the first time around. It was a good attempt to try and avoid the issue. But it ultimately failed and to head down that same path again is just not wise in my view. It would be nice to think that the Raptors could have a united nations type approach and be successful but the reality is as it has been proven over the past few years it doesn't work.

    I stress again that the Raptors are walking a very thin line with their fans and to totally ignore what they feel is wrong. The only way it is right is if you win. Colangelo kept mentioning patience but if he hasn't noticed patience has run out here. He has a shorter term contract to remind him of that fact. If you expect this fan base to have patience, while you ignore their displeasure that is a recipe for disaster. I think everyone can agree that attendance and overall interest in the Raptors has declined. This is not a pick that will do anything to change that in the short term. If you lose fans in a town where you are always fighting against the monster down the hall that is the Maple Leafs that is never a wise idea.

    Try marketing your draft pick that is not playing for your team coming off a certain labour stoppage and tell me how that works out for you. Now if you had a player that people wanted to see in a Kemba Walker or a Brandon Knight you are in a better spot. Ultimately I feel sorry for Jonas because it is not his fault. But he is walking into a hornet's nest and he has done nothing to deserve that. But Bryan Colangelo and Andrea Bargnani have. Along with a checkered past that Bryan Colangelo chooses to ignore dating back before he came here. But this fan base has endured it all and you need to understand that as well.
    Lot's more there worth reading:
    http://dinonationblog.blogspot.com/2...maybe-not.html

    I think this encapsulates fans' frustrations well. Even if you are a Junas fan I think it helps clarify what the other side feels.

  15. #55
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default NBADraft.net

    C+
    Picks: No. 5 Jonas Valanciunas

    The Raptors gambled a bit by going with Jonas Valanciunas at #5. The issue as to whether he can come over right away has been widely reported, but the risk goes beyond that factor. Valanciunas has been playing at a high level in Europe, but it is a mixed record. The Lithuanian Basketball League (LKL) is not a deep league in terms of its talent base. Zalgiris and Valanciunas’ Lietuvos Rytas are the dominating forces of that league, so while Valanciunas played extremely well for an 18-year old, the league is not a great test of his NBA readiness. It is worth noting that he struggled against Zalgiris and then also in the regional VTB United League competition against Eurocup champion Unics or Russian power CSKA. His Euroleague play was especially concerning because he had extremely high foul and turnover rates. Rates of 8.2 fouls per 40 minutes and 3.8 turnover per 40 minutes in Euroleague do not bode well for the NBA. This is where staying abroad might help him. It does nobody any good when a player enters the NBA before he is ready, and it might be a worthy investment for Valanciunas to spend another year developing oversees so that when he joins the Raptors that he can not only get on the court but stay there.
    Source: NBAdraft.net

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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    As people probably know from my posts, I don't think bargs providing a lot of production vs. what he gets paid. However, if you go back and look at that draft class who do you take ahead of him? Aldridge was a definite possibility, but it looks like more and more Roy's knees are going to be finished sooner rather than later. After that who would you like to have?

    Rudy Gay @ 8
    J.J. Redick @ 11
    Rajon Rondo @ 21

    Obiviously the hindsight pick is Rondo, but there's no way you can take him w/ the #1 overall. After that it becomes a questions of whose better, Bargs, Aldridge, Gay, or Roy?

    POB got picked @ 9. That's how bad this draft was.

    I'd swap Aldridge for Bargs, but w/ gay I'd be on the fence about it. Considering the Blazers are asking Roy to retire I'd doubt that'd be a good trade to make. The more I look at that draft class the more I blame bargs and coangelo less and the basketball gods more. Maybe Big Val will be our big karma payback?
    Roy might be getting back to his old self. That great game ending performance that tied up the Portland / Dallas series. Some injuries really do take 2 years to heal.
    “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Really like the Dino Nation Blog's analysis of the draft pick:



    Lot's more there worth reading:
    http://dinonationblog.blogspot.com/2...maybe-not.html

    I think this encapsulates fans' frustrations well. Even if you are a Junas fan I think it helps clarify what the other side feels.
    Unfortunately the other side is based on prejudices that are unwarranted.

    Bargnani and JV's game are like oil and water.

    Everything Raptors' fans want in their players they are getting, and more, from Jonas.

    The idea of drafting an American to make this an attractive place for other Americans is ridiculous. Who was LBJ's best friend on the Cavs for 7 years: Illguaskas. Who were 2 parts of the big three in SA: Parker and Manu (not European I know). Who was the sidekick in LAL: Gasol. I could go on and on but what is the point?

    These stereotypes are ridiculous once gums stop flapping and rational thoughts take over.

  18. #58
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    Quote bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
    Roy might be getting back to his old self. That great game ending performance that tied up the Portland / Dallas series. Some injuries really do take 2 years to heal.
    Take it from a guy who knows. ROy's knees aren't something that will simply heal with time, unfortunately. I'm watching his progress very closely because we suffer from VERY similar ailments.

    Love your sig, by the way. Wouldn't it have been awesome if Colangelo had picked up a second round pick to take him?
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    Raptors Republic Starter bloodyhandedgod's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Take it from a guy who knows. ROy's knees aren't something that will simply heal with time, unfortunately. I'm watching his progress very closely because we suffer from VERY similar ailments.

    Love your sig, by the way. Wouldn't it have been awesome if Colangelo had picked up a second round pick to take him?
    I smile every time I say ... Chukwudiebere Maduabum
    “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

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    I'm glad so many are warming to the idea of Jonas Valanciunas drafted at #5. By the way if Casey wants to use the 1-3-1 with Toronto JV will be able to adapt to it quite well while Bargnani on the other hand may have a tougher time. Also a benefit of this defense would be that Calderone's porous ball defense may be minimized at strategic points in the game. Not only that but knowing that there is a player on the bench like JV who executes what the coach asks of him will force Bargnani to up his defensive game or he will lose minutes. Keep in mind that Bargnani is still the center...From what I have read or seen no one has made Bargnani the starting power forward. If anyone should be concerned it's Bargnani...

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