Post-Draft Reaction

[slaw]

Initially, I was surprised by the pick. It is an enormous risk both for BC and the organization. I did not think Colangelo would take a 7'0 project from Europe for a variety of reasons that I have posted before. The Toronto fan base is so poisoned against these kinds of picks I just think it's verging on a no-win scenario for both the kid and the team.

The day after, I am basically ambivalent about the pick. This guy is years away from contributing, so I don't see any need to get worked up about it. I do hope they leave him in Europe for a couple of years and bring him along slowly cause it's obvious that he isn't ready to play an 82-game NBA schedule. If they hurry him over and he looks shaky it's going to get really ugly, really fast. Bringing him over in 2 or 3 years when he is bigger/stronger/more skilled, his English is better, the team is better, and he is surrounded by another rookie or two to take some of the pressure off of him makes a lot of sense to me.

[Matt52]

I hope we see some transactions before the lockout

a big plus 1.

I am uneasy because I feel things are definitely incomplete here. I do not want to wait through a lockout to be guessing what they do next.

[jk1m]

Hahaha...tgif!

[ibzilla]

I'm surprised people are happy with this draft. I'm not going to bash euros like everyone else but what Brian Colangelo did was set back the team another 3-4 years possibly with a horrible draft.

- The Raptors had glaring holes everywhere (minus shooting guard), Pg was as a big a hole as center as Jose and Bayless are not the long term answers at the position.

- Drafting a player that will not contribute to next year's squad will only undermine Dwayne Casey and Jonas V. Colangelo is on a 2 year contract and no guarantee the next gm (yes he will be fired after 2 years) will want to keep a coach he didn't hire and a player he didn't draft.

- The blueprint is there, we all watched the playoffs and we know what kind of team makes it there. Drafting solid role players will not do the job. The raptors NEED a superstar, not a 10-10 guy at the center position. They already have enough role players and NEED to swing for the fence in a bad draft. A couple of guys had some star potential at 5 (Knight,Walker) and no one will blame BC for missing out on Jonas or Biyombo if they turn out well. On the other hand, Knight and Kemba have great potential if all the stars align right in Toronto.

- Drafting need over talent is never a good idea in the NBA. It might work in the NFL but talent trumps everything in the NBA. A team with 2 redundant superstars (Wade and LeBron) can take their team to the finals. You don't always need pieces that fit to win and you can always trade pieces away if the talent doesn't mesh. I'm sure Golden State will have no problems trading Monte Ellis if they wanted to.

I felt in such a bad draft BC should have taken Knight or traded the pick for a veteran. If not, trade the pick for next year's first rounder and hopefully have 2 lottery picks next season. Because one thing I'm sure of is that the Raptors are going to be in the top half of the lottery next season again and BC will have one year to pull off a miracle before his contract expires. If that happens, we could be in for another rebuilding half decade by the new GM depending on his thoughts of the team. To me the worst case scenario was drafting a future role player (Jonas), but if he had no choice at least he should have taken Biyombo and given the fans some hope next season.

[Tim W.]

I hope we see some transactions before the lockout

There won't be any more transactions until after the CBA. I don't recall any trade happening between the draft and July 1st. Teams will now wait to see what the new CBA will be like.

[Matt52]

[QUOTE=ibzilla;90866]

I'm surprised people are happy with this draft. I'm not going to bash euros like everyone else but what Brian Colangelo did was set back the team another 3-4 years possibly with a horrible draft.

If setting them back means ensuring the highest level they will ever attain will be more than a first round exit, then I am all for the set back. Next year will most likely be another high lottery pick in a strong draft where young, strong role players will already be in place to help a true franchise talent.

- The Raptors had glaring holes everywhere (minus shooting guard), Pg was as a big a hole as center as Jose and Bayless are not the long term answers at the position.

Bayless played more than adequate when he was given opportunity as a starter. C is a much harder hole to fill than C wtih most teams only getting one worth having typically through the draft.

- Drafting a player that will not contribute to next year's squad will only undermine Dwayne Casey and Jonas V. Colangelo is on a 2 year contract and no guarantee the next gm (yes he will be fired after 2 years) will want to keep a coach he didn't hire and a player he didn't draft.

I fail to see how either are undermined.
Don't forget there is a team option for year 3 on both coach and GM. With a cast of solid young talent and, possibly, a franchise talent next year, I disagree on future employment prospects.

- The blueprint is there, we all watched the playoffs and we know what kind of team makes it there. Drafting solid role players will not do the job. The raptors NEED a superstar, not a 10-10 guy at the center position. They already have enough role players and NEED to swing for the fence in a bad draft. A couple of guys had some star potential at 5 (Knight,Walker) and no one will blame BC for missing out on Jonas or Biyombo if they turn out well. On the other hand, Knight and Kemba have great potential if all the stars align right in Toronto.

The blue print was solid defensive teams. There was no superstar in this draft. Of all the players, Valanciunas had the most upside according to many credible sources. Even if he becomes a 10/10 C, I can guarantee that is better than most teams could ever hope for. If Kemba and Knight were star players, why were they selected at 8 and 9?

- Drafting need over talent is never a good idea in the NBA. It might work in the NFL but talent trumps everything in the NBA. A team with 2 redundant superstars (Wade and LeBron) can take their team to the finals. You don't always need pieces that fit to win and you can always trade pieces away if the talent doesn't mesh. I'm sure Golden State will have no problems trading Monte Ellis if they wanted to.

You are right on the bolded which is why Valanciunas was taken at 5 and Kemba and Knight were taken at 8 and 9.

I felt in such a bad draft BC should have taken Knight or traded the pick for a veteran. If not, trade the pick for next year's first rounder and hopefully have 2 lottery picks next season. Because one thing I'm sure of is that the Raptors are going to be in the top half of the lottery next season again and BC will have one year to pull off a miracle before his contract expires. If that happens, we could be in for another rebuilding half decade by the new GM depending on his thoughts of the team. To me the worst case scenario was drafting a future role player (Jonas), but if he had no choice at least he should have taken Biyombo and given the fans some hope next season.

A solid veteran ensures mediocrity moving forward which is worse than high lottery picks because it offers no hope.

Another draft pick next year does nothing to help this coming season which is one of the main reasons you are down on JV. Also, there are absolutely NO centre prospects coming out next year while PG's and SF's look very promising - especially at SF.

Read the scouting reports and interviews on JV versus Biyombo. I would be surprised if there was a GM in the league, if given the choice, who would take Biyombo over JV.

Assuming BC is gone after this season is ridiculous, in my opinion. After this year they will have this (ages listed are after next season if there is one):

PG: Bayless (23), Calderon (31)
SG: DD (22)
SF: JJ (25), Kleiza (27)
PF: ED (22), Amir (25)
C: Bargnani (26), JV (20), Alabi (24)

All of these players minus Calderon have untapped potential. There is no guarantee Bargnani or Calderon stick around past this offseason - and hopefully one or both are traded. Throw a perennial all-star wing in that mix with whatever proceeds Bargnani or Calderon could fetch and that is a team capable of 2nd/3rd round playoff runs at the very least *assuming all continue to develop*.

There are no fixes to building a team capable of competing for 8-9 years from the ground up unless you go the Celtic or HEAT route and that isn't happening in Toronto given they have no all-star to start with.

[ibzilla]

[QUOTE=Matt52;90911]

If setting them back means ensuring the highest level they will ever attain will be more than a first round exit, then I am all for the set back. Next year will most likely be another high lottery pick in a strong draft where young, strong role players will already be in place to help a true franchise talent.



Bayless played more than adequate when he was given opportunity as a starter. C is a much harder hole to fill than C wtih most teams only getting one worth having typically through the draft.



I fail to see how either are undermined.
Don't forget there is a team option for year 3 on both coach and GM. With a cast of solid young talent and, possibly, a franchise talent next year, I disagree on future employment prospects.




The blue print was solid defensive teams. There was no superstar in this draft. Of all the players, Valanciunas had the most upside according to many credible sources. Even if he becomes a 10/10 C, I can guarantee that is better than most teams could ever hope for. If Kemba and Knight were star players, why were they selected at 8 and 9?




You are right on the bolded which is why Valanciunas was taken at 5 and Kemba and Knight were taken at 8 and 9.



A solid veteran ensures mediocrity moving forward which is worse than high lottery picks because it offers no hope.

Another draft pick next year does nothing to help this coming season which is one of the main reasons you are down on JV. Also, there are absolutely NO centre prospects coming out next year while PG's and SF's look very promising - especially at SF.

Read the scouting reports and interviews on JV versus Biyombo. I would be surprised if there was a GM in the league, if given the choice, who would take Biyombo over JV.

Assuming BC is gone after this season is ridiculous, in my opinion. After this year they will have this (ages listed are after next season if there is one):

PG: Bayless (23), Calderon (31)
SG: DD (22)
SF: JJ (25), Kleiza (27)
PF: ED (22), Amir (25)
C: Bargnani (26), JV (20), Alabi (24)

All of these players minus Calderon have untapped potential. There is no guarantee Bargnani or Calderon stick around past this offseason - and hopefully one or both are traded. Throw a perennial all-star wing in that mix with whatever proceeds Bargnani or Calderon could fetch and that is a team capable of 2nd/3rd round playoff runs at the very least *assuming all continue to develop*.

There are no fixes to building a team capable of competing for 8-9 years from the ground up unless you go the Celtic or HEAT route and that isn't happening in Toronto given they have no all-star to start with.

You make some good points but I'll clarify and explain further what I mean.

- I like Bayless on my team, unfortunately I prefer him to come off the bench. Bayless is not a true point guard and really should pattern his game after Barbosa or Jason Terry. He has value coming off the bench and scoring 15 ppg. Trying to mold him into a true PG hasn't worked so far and you need a contingency plan if he fails next season. Considering there are no top level PG in free agency or trading block (coming to Toronto I mean) the NBA draft is the only method available to add a PG. Who knows where the Raps will be drafting next season or who will be in the draft, so I believe you draft Knight in case Bayless fails as a starter.

- Center is a harder hole to fill but there are a couple of serviceable big men available (Chandler, Kaman, Haywood) who can give you production now. Jonas isn't going to fill a need for a couple of years anyways, he's not strong or experienced enough to provide 30 mpg at the position.

- The reason I said the head coach and the player are both undermined is because BC is on a two year contract. It wasn't a sure thing that he was coming back and I get the feeling it's a "wait and see" approach before giving him a 3rd contract. If the team isn't in a position of strength or vast improvement I doubt they will pick up the third option year making Casey a lame duck head coach and every single play on the roster a trading chip with a new GM. Had BC made the pick with a 4 year contract, the circumstances would change.

- You are right when you say defenses win championships, and a lot of that has to do with coaching. The raptors made a good move going with Casey but you still need SUPERSTARS to win in the NBA. Virtually no team advanced in the second round without one (Atlanta, Memphis) and the goal of the top half of the lottery is to find superstars, not role players. I can find a role player in free agency or later in the draft, not top 5 (ie Shelden Williams).

- I believe Knight has more potential than Walker but sometimes good players drop due to team needs. Where was Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Nash, ect ect drafted? Superstars don't always go 1 and 2, the only teams that needed a PG in the top half of the lottery was Toronto and Cleveland and that had more to do with why Knight dropped.

- As for Jonas having more potential than Knight, nobody knows the answer to that question, they both have potential but what I DO know is that Knight played against top level talent here and we have game tape of him playing major minutes for a championship caliber team. Jonas barely played for a team in Europe and it's difficult to gauge the the type of talent he was playing on a day to day basis. Reaching your potential has a lot to do with the system you are placed in. Had Demar been drafted by a team like Charlotte, he might never has been as good as he is today. Toronto's system will benefit a guy like Knight, he's a good shooter and will get plenty of minutes to play with the young guys and develop his game. Jonas will get minutes but right now he's not strong enough to bang with NBA centers and that will affect his playing time. Less minutes could be less development for him. Not only that, Toronto has a glut of power forward/center types who will take a lot of minutes.

- I'm not saying Knight is a better gamble than Jonas or a better prospect, I just think he fits the system a lot better and will be allowed to reach his potential similar to Demar's experience. And if Knight hits his potential the Raps could potentially have the next Russell Westbrook as their starting PG and that is something to build from. His game is different but the situation is exactly the same, a scoring guard with size that with time can become a pg depending on the team commitment to him and will get plenty of minutes to develop. Meanwhile Jonas is a project and has to overcome the buyout issues, size, language barrier, experience just to reach his potential. He might reach it 5-7 years from now but will management still be around by then? Will he even be on the Raps when he does reach his potential or traded by the next gm? The questions surrounding Jonas's situation is greater and supersedes his game or drafting before Knight.

-

[Tim W.]

- Center is a harder hole to fill but there are a couple of serviceable big men available (Chandler, Kaman, Haywood) who can give you production now. Jonas isn't going to fill a need for a couple of years anyways, he's not strong or experienced enough to provide 30 mpg at the position.
-

I didn't read your whole comment because it was a little long (I know. Pot calling the kettle black), but to say that Chandler, Kaman and Haywood are serviceable big man who are available is a bit of a stretch. First of all, Kaman and Haywood are way overpaid, and may or many not be available in a trade, and we don't know for what.

Chandler is technically available, but he ain't coming to the Raptors.

It's more difficult to acquire an above average center than any other position.

[MangoKid]

You make some good points but I'll clarify and explain further what I mean.

- I like Bayless on my team, unfortunately I prefer him to come off the bench. Bayless is not a true point guard and really should pattern his game after Barbosa or Jason Terry. He has value coming off the bench and scoring 15 ppg. Trying to mold him into a true PG hasn't worked so far and you need a contingency plan if he fails next season. Considering there are no top level PG in free agency or trading block (coming to Toronto I mean) the NBA draft is the only method available to add a PG. Who knows where the Raps will be drafting next season or who will be in the draft, so I believe you draft Knight in case Bayless fails as a starter. -

You make it seem as though the Raptors reached for Valanciunas. The kid was ranked pretty high and there was talk that he would have went higher if it weren't for his buyout issue. You talk about as though he has no value, like he won't grow, yet Knight is going to turn into some superstar. Knight and Bayless' games are similar - they're both comgo guards - except Bayless is older and is bigger (not taller, bigger). There's no way I trust Knight to be a starter right off the bat. no way. The kid didn't do a good job of being able to run an offense at Kentucky. Still very turnover prone. Can't use his left hand. HOwever, do I think he will he be a good player? I believe he will. However, like Valancuinas, it will take time.

- Center is a harder hole to fill but there are a couple of serviceable big men available (Chandler, Kaman, Haywood) who can give you production now. Jonas isn't going to fill a need for a couple of years anyways, he's not strong or experienced enough to provide 30 mpg at the position. -

Why do you need the production NOW? This a proper rebuild. Chandler is going to command big dollars and Kaman and Haywood would take a bit to pry away from their respective clubs. They're just not gonna give those guys away. If Toronto signs a serviceable big man (Jeff Foster?) for next season, then that's alright with me. Then again, who's to say the season starts up back in October? It could be a while before some ball is played. When Valanciunas does arrive, I'm sure he'll get eased into the rotation. Davis and DeRozan didn't play big munites right away, yet I don't hear you spewing on them. Look, when Valanciunas does arrive, If the only thing he provides is defense intially, I'll be happy.

The reason I said the head coach and the player are both undermined is because BC is on a two year contract. It wasn't a sure thing that he was coming back and I get the feeling it's a "wait and see" approach before giving him a 3rd contract. If the team isn't in a position of strength or vast improvement I doubt they will pick up the third option year making Casey a lame duck head coach and every single play on the roster a trading chip with a new GM. Had BC made the pick with a 4 year contract, the circumstances would change. -

I'm sure Casey had a say in the selection. I don't get what's wrong with a proper rebuild. I don't want a team that's gonna make the 7th-8th seeds in a weak Eastern conference only to get bounced year in and out. Colangelo made the right pick for the franchise.

You are right when you say defenses win championships, and a lot of that has to do with coaching. The raptors made a good move going with Casey but you still need SUPERSTARS to win in the NBA. Virtually no team advanced in the second round without one (Atlanta, Memphis) and the goal of the top half of the lottery is to find superstars, not role players. I can find a role player in free agency or later in the draft, not top 5 (ie Shelden Williams). -

Dallas just won a championship with one superstar. So what are you saying? Because you feel there are no superstars in a draft, you should just forego the selection? You draft someone who is the BPA or who best fits your system.

I believe Knight has more potential than Walker but sometimes good players drop due to team needs. Where was Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Nash, ect ect drafted? Superstars don't always go 1 and 2, the only teams that needed a PG in the top half of the lottery was Toronto and Cleveland and that had more to do with why Knight dropped. -

How does Toronto need a PG? They have a decent one in Calderon and a young combo guard in Bayless. Calderon may be aging, but he's a very good pure point guard. Bayless is an older version of Knight.

As for Jonas having more potential than Knight, nobody knows the answer to that question, they both have potential but what I DO know is that Knight played against top level talent here and we have game tape of him playing major minutes for a championship caliber team. Jonas barely played for a team in Europe and it's difficult to gauge the the type of talent he was playing on a day to day basis. Reaching your potential has a lot to do with the system you are placed in. Had Demar been drafted by a team like Charlotte, he might never has been as good as he is today. Toronto's system will benefit a guy like Knight, he's a good shooter and will get plenty of minutes to play with the young guys and develop his game. Jonas will get minutes but right now he's not strong enough to bang with NBA centers and that will affect his playing time. Less minutes could be less development for him. Not only that, Toronto has a glut of power forward/center types who will take a lot of minutes. -

Knight played against other kids. Valanciunas played against men. How many PF/C prospects are strong enough to bang with NBA centres? He'll put on some weight in the summer and will be just fine. Not strong doesn't equate to someone being heartless. The kid is tough. Glut of power forward/center types? How many centres aside from Bargnani do the Raptors have? Who are you afraid of him losing time to? Soloman? Ajinca? Right now, the kid is 240. He stated that he wanted to play the 5, so therefore he's a center.

I'm not saying Knight is a better gamble than Jonas or a better prospect, I just think he fits the system a lot better and will be allowed to reach his potential similar to Demar's experience. And if Knight hits his potential the Raps could potentially have the next Russell Westbrook as their starting PG and that is something to build from. His game is different but the situation is exactly the same, a scoring guard with size that with time can become a pg depending on the team commitment to him and will get plenty of minutes to develop. Meanwhile Jonas is a project and has to overcome the buyout issues, size, language barrier, experience just to reach his potential. He might reach it 5-7 years from now but will management still be around by then? Will he even be on the Raps when he does reach his potential or traded by the next gm? The questions surrounding Jonas's situation is greater and supersedes his game or drafting before Knight. -

Cop out. If Valanciunas was African-American, there's no way we'd be hearing this rubbish. How is Valancuinas a project but Knight not? Knight in all liklihood will take 3 years to develop (maybe more), as will Valancuinas. As for the Westbrook comment, there's no way he's on the same level. No way. Westbrook is more explosive. Knight is a good athlete, but not as good as Westbrook's status.
In addition, the next NBA draft could feature a lot of guards - and better ones than Knight or Walker. You make it seem as though the Raptors missed the boat on a once in a lifetime superstar in Knight. If you can fill one of the hardest positions - a good traditional centre and take the best player available, it's gotta be a no brainer.

[ebrian]

I have decided that there is only one way to paint a positive picture on this draft and the absolutely horrible blunder that BC has, once again, made. Here it is, my new mantra:

Draft? What draft? It never happened. We had no draft picks this year, hence there is no new player on the roster. Simple as that.

[Tim W.]

I have decided that there is only one way to paint a positive picture on this draft and the absolutely horrible blunder that BC has, once again, made. Here it is, my new mantra:

Draft? What draft? It never happened. We had no draft picks this year, hence there is no new player on the roster. Simple as that.

Or you can simply wait and watch the guy play. Hey, there's a thought.

[ebrian]

Or you can simply wait and watch the guy play. Hey, there's a thought.

What guy? I just checked the payroll, it's the same as it was yesterday and the day before. We had no draft pick. It's a shame because if we did I would have taken Kemba Walker.

[LBF]

Balls - I'm not sure if you are happy or need medical attention.

he had medical attention already. his balls are made of steel, remember?

[slaw]

Or you can simply wait and watch the guy play. Hey, there's a thought.

I'm lining up my Baltic League Pass right now. If that doesn't work, I am actually in Moscow from the fall of 2012 until spring 2013, maybe I'll skip over to Vilnius to watch him play in person.

[Tim W.]

What guy? I just checked the payroll, it's the same as it was yesterday and the day before. We had no draft pick. It's a shame because if we did I would have taken Kemba Walker.

Actually, Walker wouldn't be on the payroll now, either. And if you're complaining that the Raptors might have to wait a year for him, I think that's a lousy argument. Or maybe you think San Antonio should have drafted Armon Gilliam instead of David Robinson because they would have had to have waited two years? I know, it's an extreme example, but the simple fact is that Valanciunas was widely considered to be the best player available, unlike Walker who lasted until 9, and the Raptors weren't going to be competing for a Championship anytime soon, anyway, so why not take the player who is expected to give you the best long term success?

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Why isn't there an option for "Happy but would of preferred another player" option? I don't mine Jonas V but I wanted Bismack.

[Balls of Steel]

Why isn't there an option for "Happy but would of preferred another player" option? I don't mine Jonas V but I wanted Bismack.

Biyombo is BC's gift to Jordan after the Chandler fiasco. Biyombo will be a super bust in a team that cannot score. Good luck Charlotte! Hey, you may want to read this:

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...Michael-Jordan

[planetmars]

Brian talking to McCowan on the Fan590 admitted that if Jonas was taken by Cleveland then he would have taken Biyombo. So Brian was never going to get Walker or Knight.

Source

[Tim W.]

Biyombo is BC's gift to Jordan after the Chandler fiasco. Biyombo will be a super bust in a team that cannot score. Good luck Charlotte! Hey, you may want to read this:

http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...Michael-Jordan

Just as it's foolish to call Valanciunas a bad pick despite not seeing him, I think it's foolish to call Biyombo a bust without watching more of him.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Brian talking to McCowan on the Fan590 admitted that if Jonas was taken by Cleveland then he would have taken Biyombo. So Brian was never going to get Walker or Knight.

Source

*Goes into a rage* I hate you BC. Bismack > Jonas.

I hate Cavs even more now.