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Thread: 2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

  1. #1001
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    After watching the crowd chant "MVP!" for Aaron Gray I can only imagine what they'd do if we drafted MKG

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    If we're talking about ceiling PJ3's ceiling is higher. Brad Beal has star potential t
    Brad beal doesn't not have star potential don't kid yourself. He's a poor mans Ray Allen/Eric Gordan and PJ3 is iffy people think he doesn't have the motor or the killer instinct to become a star player. Oh an he's also a tweener

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Comparing Barnes to MKG. Click the link to see the write up on each. End is below.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-draft-...kidd-gilchrist


    So Who is the Pick?

    Well, a lot of it depends on the situation. Barnes, a year older, figures to be the more NBA ready player of the two. Kidd-Gilchrist does have more upside, though, and if he can overhaul his jump shot into something reliable heíll be very scary.

    Itís unlikely that either of them become franchise players or number one options. Thatís not to say that they wonít make fine number two options or stellar third options, though. Based off of the way the standings are right now, Barnes and Kidd-Gilchrist will likely end up either with the Charlotte Bobcats, New Jersey Nets or Toronto Raptors, who would be thrilled to have one of them fall to them.

    Thereís a saying when it comes to evaluating the draft that you canít accurately do so until a few years down the line. That will be the case in determining whether or not Barnes or MKG was the right pick. Theyíre both fine players who will make tremendous additions, but a few years down the line itís likely that one surpasses the other. It will just come down to whether or not a team wants to gamble and invest in Kidd-Gilchristís immense potential, or go the safer route with Barnes, who will almost certainly be a contributor immediately. There are plenty of reasons to like one over the other and vice versa. The deciding factors could end up being their play in the NCAA Tournament and predraft workouts.

  4. #1004
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Comparing Barnes to MKG. Click the link to see the write up on each. End is below.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-draft-...kidd-gilchrist
    I read this article too, it was very accurate.

    Since we have that defensive centre coming in, I think with that anchor defensively, and the fact Andrea has improved on that side as well, we can have trust in them to "gamble." You can go for steals and not worry because of your big men down low protecting the paint. MKG is a very good on-ball defender, defensive stopper type player, hits the glass, energy player, but we kind of have that in James Johnson, but not a defensive stopper, plus our struggle is the scoring from there.
    I would love to have Barnes, his scoring is great, and like the article said, will be a contributor right away, we need that outside threat, and even though he's not a big slasher, there's a reason why Demar Derozan is here.
    The only problem is Barnes may be gone once it's our turn to pick, so we would HAVE to choose MKG if that's what BC is basically trying to pursue, but if he's not gone, I'm taking Barnes.

    I like Quincy Miller and Perry Jones, tweeners but hell they've got some game, we'll see how the NCAA tournament ranks out, because something can happen and show out like what happened with Derrick Williams.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Brad beal doesn't not have star potential don't kid yourself. He's a poor mans Ray Allen/Eric Gordan and PJ3 is iffy people think he doesn't have the motor or the killer instinct to become a star player. Oh an he's also a tweener
    Ray Allen is a hall fame so if his going to be a poor man's version of that. Sign me up. Chad Ford said he,d would take him top 5 early this week.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Brad Beal is a good player, maybe top 5, lottery for sure. I'd take Lamb over him though.

  7. #1007
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Beal>Lamb

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Idk really, both very good players anyway.

  9. #1009
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Btw Quincy miller isn't a tweener he's a straight up 3. Probably would be the best in the draft if he didn't have that injury. He is probably the most all around player on the offensive end. He can drive and put it down, he can cross you up and break your ankles, he can pull up and drain the jumper, and he's very long and athletic. I just hope he declares and we are in position to draft him.

  10. #1010
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Btw Quincy miller isn't a tweener he's a straight up 3. Probably would be the best in the draft if he didn't have that injury. He is probably the most all around player on the offensive end. He can drive and put it down, he can cross you up and break your ankles, he can pull up and drain the jumper, and he's very long and athletic. I just hope he declares and we are in position to draft him.
    I just dont know if BC is willing take another project when their more NBA ready players like Beal. Seeing that he want to hit "the ground running next year". If he going to take a project he'd probably take one with a ceiling like PJ3.

  11. #1011
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I just dont know if BC is willing take another project when their more NBA ready players like Beal. Seeing that he want to hit "the ground running next year". If he going to take a project he'd probably take one with a ceiling like PJ3.
    we can still make the playoffs without a guy that is nba ready. Plus Miller has a ceiling too, PJ3 is playing like Anthony randolph and he doesn't have the motor or killer instinct to be a very good player so I'll pass.

  12. #1012
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Miller does have a ceilling but PJ3's is higher. Like PJ3 has league MVP potential.

  13. #1013
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Both are great prospects, but PJ3 is more NBA ready and there are no injury concerns with him.

  14. #1014
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Miller does have a ceilling but PJ3's is higher. Like PJ3 has league MVP potential.
    lol no he doesn't not even close.

  15. #1015
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    lol no he doesn't not even close.
    Is it fair to say you like Quincy Miller?

  16. #1016
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Draft express has a nice piece on Miller now. Does a good job breaking his game down and his flaws. He's certainly a guy that COULD be great and COULD overcome his injuries but there's a lot of what ifs there. I have a feeling he'll fall into the late teens and make a lucky team very happy.

  17. #1017
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Espn insider has a nice piece on the draft in general, too. Outside of Davis virtually every player has question marks, you have to pick your poison on what you're willing to be ok with.

    I stand firm on MKG is the best prospect after Davis.

  18. #1018
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Espn insider has a nice piece on the draft in general, too. Outside of Davis virtually every player has question marks, you have to pick your poison on what you're willing to be ok with.

    I stand firm on MKG is the best prospect after Davis.
    Would you be able to cut & paste that ESPN Insider article into this thread? Would help shape the ongoing discussion/debate about who the Raptors should draft. Cheers! (damn Insider!)

  19. #1019
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    What happened to the 'great' 2012 draft?
    February, 24, 2012
    FEB 24
    9:39
    AM ET
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    30
    By Chad Ford

    Getty Images, US Presswire
    Fabulous freshmen and returning stars should have made the 2012 draft great. What happened?
    In July, NBA scouts and executives were projecting the 2012 NBA draft to be one of the best in a decade.

    With a potential lockout and other factors in play, an unusually high number of prominent college players passed on their opportunities to jump to the NBA in 2011. North Carolina's Harrison Barnes, Baylor's Perry Jones, Kansas' Thomas Robinson, Ohio State's Jared Sullinger, Kentucky's Terrence Jones, Florida's Patric Young, UConn's Jeremy Lamb, North Carolina's John Henson, Duke's Mason Plumlee and UNC's Tyler Zeller all were considered potential lottery picks in 2011. Another year in school was supposed to give them even more appeal.

    We were also projecting as many as 10 freshmen as potential lottery picks: Kentucky's Anthony Davis, UConn's Andre Drummond, Kentucky's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Baylor's Quincy Miller, Florida's Bradley Beal, North Carolina's James Michael McAdoo, Duke's Austin Rivers, Kentucky's Marquis Teague, Texas' Myck Kabongo and Memphis' Adonis Thomas.

    That's 20 players for 14 lottery spots. That's what you call a stacked draft.

    But as we enter the last week of February, NBA executives are rushing to downgrade the draft.

    "Everyone talks about how great this draft is," one NBA GM told ESPN.com. "On paper in July, it really looked that way. On the ground in February, I'm not that impressed. Anthony Davis is great. But after that, there are a lot of question marks and a surprising lack of depth. I'm not sure that the 2012 draft will be better than the 2011 one."

    What's causing the pessimism?

    Davis has lived up to, and perhaps even surpassed, expectations. But most of the rest of the crop of returning players and freshmen haven't measured up.

    Barnes has shown he's a lethal scorer -- but a one-dimensional one who doesn't seem to make anyone around him better. Perry Jones has reverted back to his wallflower ways. Terrence Jones, despite the talent, is still maddeningly inconsistent. Sullinger is effective, but seems to have hit his ceiling as a freshman. Henson is still a defensive force, but the offense is a work in progress. Ditto for Plumlee and Young. Lamb seems too laid-back to really carry a team the way his former teammate Kemba Walker did last season.

    Of the returning collegians, only three -- Robinson, Zeller and Damian Lillard -- have lived up to or exceeded expectations. Robinson's toughness and athleticism should make him a staple in the league for a decade. Zeller will start somewhere thanks to his ability to run the floor like a guard. Lillard is the draft's biggest sleeper, but has been consistently better every season.

    The same problems are found throughout the freshman class. Andre Drummond may have the physical tools of Amare Stoudemire -- but he doesn't play like him. Drummond can look awesome in one game and completely disappear in the next.

    Miller has had his moments, but seems like he's still not fully recovered from ACL surgery last year. Beal looked like the next Ray Allen or Eric Gordon in high school, but hasn't quite lived up to the hype on a Florida team that often asks him to play out of position. Rivers has hit some big shots, but he doesn't look like the dominant player he was in high school. McAdoo has been regulated to bench duty and hasn't the super sub we thought he'd be. Teague and Kabongo have had some success, but both look a long ways away from being an NBA point guard. Thomas struggled out of the gate before a season-ending injury struck.

    Really, just two freshmen, Kidd-Gilchrist and Indiana's Cody Zeller, have exceeded expectations. We had Kidd-Gilchrist ranked No. 3 on our Big Board in July, so it's a bit of stretch to say he's exceeded expectations. But the truth is that Kidd-Gilchrist has lived up to all the hype about his motor and toughness while showing a better offensive game than he did in high school.

    We thought Zeller wasn't a serious one-and-done prospect, but next to Davis, he's been the second most efficient freshman in college basketball and has turned around the Hoosiers' program. He's now a legitimate lottery pick.

    So sure, if everyone lived up to the hype, this could've been one of the best drafts ever. Instead we're left with one sure thing in Davis. Barnes will be a great scorer in the league -- but will he ever be any better than Danny Granger? Most teams are looking for more with the No. 2 pick in a great draft. Coaches will fall in love with Kidd-Gilchrist, but unless he develops a very consistent game from beyond the arc, his upside looks to be on par with a Gerald Wallace. Drummond has the tools of Stoudemire, but he could also bust out of the league in a few years. Beal is the one guy that's probably underrated right now.

    After those five, the talent downgrades to good starter and then, after the 10th or 11th pick, to solid rotation player.

    Good draft? Sure. Great draft? Hardly.
    I don't agree with him 100% i do think its a great draft, but he makes some good points.
    @jerboat

  20. #1020
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I don't agree with him 100% i do think its a great draft, but he makes some good points.
    Alot of the players are talented no doubt, but alot of them are projects. Very wing/big draft this time around. I think lottery teams are going to draft contributors right away.

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