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Thread: 2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

  1. #2541
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    Terrence Jones Comparison from Swish Scout:

    Best Case Scenario: Josh Smith (less high-flying)
    Worst Case Scenario: James Johnson

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Default If theses Nash rumor are true, than we draft a PG. Who do we pick though?

    Most pro types expect Marshall -- a 6-foot-4 sophomore who won the Cousy Award as the nation's top college point guard and set the ACC's single-season assists record -- to keep his name in the Draft after announcing he'd take a look at the pros along with teammates Harrison Barnes and John Henson last week.

    "He's not a great athlete," a Pacific Division exec says of Marshall, "but damn, I haven't seen anybody pass it like that in a long time. And obviously he makes that team go. His game is not going to change by going back, and it's not going to change his shooting and it's not going to change his athleticism."
    He is the prototypical make-everyone-else-better point guard.

    If you must compare Marshall to a pro, compare him to Andre Miller, who is just as (not) fast as he was a decade and a half ago in college, but is still just as effective because he is smart, strong and knows how to play.
    Marshall's size makes up for his lack of quickness.

    "If he was 6-1 and slow he wouldn't make up for it," a Central Division scout said. "But 6-4, at the position helps him. He's shown some slight improvement in his ability to make a shot from the outside. At 6-4, he can afford to be a step slow. Because he can space some guys, maybe more than a smaller point guard who would have contested shots. With smaller guys on him he can see over top of them."

    Marshall's absence in the later rounds of the NCAA Tournament after breaking his right wrist was clearly the difference between the Tar Heels making a title run and getting bounced in the regional final by Kansas. One former ACC coach, whose team played against Marshall, was "stunned" Marshall came out early -- considering the questions remaining about his defense.

    "Even Marshall, as good as he is, you wonder about his quickness," an Atlantic Division executive said. "Will he be able to get in the lane and do what he can do against NBA players? But he has a fantastic court awareness that you haven't seen in a long time. It's hard to find a guy in the NBA who plays like him, because most of the guys in the NBA want to score."

    In that way, Marshall is a throwback. With the NBA's new rules, scoring point guards are the rule, not the exception.
    "It's not really where the game's going," a Southwest Division executive said, "but generally speaking, coaches like having a pass-first, pass-second, reluctant-shooter third guy on their team. (Marshall) will be good with deflections and steals, because he has good instincts, and he's a pretty good kid, too."

    Weber State's Lillard is ranked just as highly as Marshall by some teams -- "Lillard's probably my favorite," a Central Division executive said -- though he doesn't have Marshall's natural passing skills. But Lillard, who finished second in the country in scoring (24.5 points per game), is a big-time scorer who does it efficiently, a skill that will serve him well in the NBA, though he may not wind up being a lottery pick.

    "He almost lets the game come to him," a Northwest Division scout said. "You like guys who let the game come to them. But he almost did it to a fault. I wouldn't call him a selfish scorer. He's a willing passer, but I don't know if he's a natural passer."

    That is OK with some talent evaluators.

    "He's got a better feel for the point guard position, but he reminds me a little of Mo Williams -- similar size, can shoot," a Central Division evaluator says. "He's going to be able to manage the point guard position a little more. He plays on a team where he probably could take seven or eight more shots, but he makes the right basketball play. I watched him in a game and he had a quiet 25 -- and they won, too."

    Some compare Lillard to Detroit combo guard Rodney Stuckey. Coming out of Eastern Washington, he had to show he could make the adjustment to the NBA from a smaller school.

    "Even though he's small college [guy], with guys like Stuckey and George Hill having success Iike they have, I don't think that's held against you like it used to be," a Southwest Division executive said.

    But some have questions. One Pacific Division executive believes Lillard is, at best, a backup.
    "As a point guard, you want guys to be more assertive, more aggressive, and he's more passive, which is a rarity," a Northwest scout said.

    After Marshall and Lillard, the prospects generate much less unanimity.
    I'm Lillard fan myself.
    @Chr1st1anL

  3. #2543
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Jeremy Lamb

    Some scouts have Lamb rated ahead of Rivers. Lamb, who contemplated entering the Draft after starring as a freshman on UConn's championship team a year ago, is skinny, but he is skilled, long and can make plays. He finished third in the Big East in scoring (17.7 per game) and was one of the few bright lights on a Huskies team that fell apart and got bounced in the second round of the NCAAs.

    UConn fell apart, but that shouldn't all be put on Lamb's shoulders -- even though much was expected from him.

    The first-team all-Big East selection shot a solid 48 percent, and scored 20 or more points 10 times, including 32 against Villanova. He is just the sixth sophomore in Connecticut history to score more than 1,000 points.

    "He's really talented," a Northwest Division scout said of Lamb. "He's a little laid back as a kid but he's a really talented kid."

    Some question whether Lamb is too laid back. He has been painted with the "S" word by many evaluators: soft.

    "I think that's his deal," said a Central Division executive. "It gives you a little bit (of concern) but that program's turned out a lot of good players. I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. If you can play for [coach Jim] Calhoun you can play for a lot of coaches. He's got some tools. He's really athletic. And people seem to like the kid, too. He's just pretty passive."

    Said a Southeast Division scouting head: "I like Lamb. But he plays that style, that silky smooth style. If you play that way, you better be real good. Because that's a high switch position."

    One college coach whose team played Connecticut this year said he doesn't like Lamb's motor.

    "When you give him space and you let him do his thing he's got it going pretty good," the coach said. "But when you get up in him and deny him the ball and make him work for his shot, he doesn't seem to be the most competitive guy. But he's good. He can shoot it. It just depends on how competitive he's going to be on that given day."

    But Lamb is likely to be very impressive in interviews and in drills at the Chicago pre-Draft camp and individual workouts. Despite all the qualms, Lamb is almost certain to go in the top half of the first round.
    Been a big fan of Jeremy Lamb. When we finally feel too 8th I knew he would be a great pick there. I'm glad that others like Matt have jumped on this bandwagon.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    With so many good players to choose from we really can't go wrong in this draft. Whether it's T. Jones, Lamb, PJ3 etc. the talent level on the roster is about to get a serious boost.

    Say ping pong balls go our way and we get the second pick. Davis will be off the board and it will be a decision between Beal and MKG. Who do you pick? You could make a case for either being the bpa. Which need do you feel the Raptors need to fill the most? SG or SF?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    With so many good players to choose from we really can't go wrong in this draft. Whether it's T. Jones, Lamb, PJ3 etc. the talent level on the roster is about to get a serious boost.

    Say ping pong balls go our way and we get the second pick. Davis will be off the board and it will be a decision between Beal and MKG. Who do you pick? You could make a case for either being the bpa. Which need do you feel the Raptors need to fill the most? SG or SF?
    That's actually a tough one personally I don't think any rookie we draft will start next year. I feel that that 3 spot is going to be solved b4 the draft. In that case I would say Beal. He could contribute better off the bench than MKG and has the 3 pointing that Casey wants.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I'm a fan of Terrence Jones. I feel that he could bring what James Johnson brought to this team in his rookie year. I think he'd be a little bit of a better shooter. I think that's great seeing his like 4 years younger.
    I also like T. Jones at #8. I think he's a multiple tool guy who makes others on the team better. He is also a tough defender. He would be a nice complement to AB and JV, and if he plays the 3 would provide formidable size for the Raptors. The main question about him is his attitude and how he will respond to NBA coaching. If the the pre-draft assessments are positive on that front, then I think he will end up being a high pick.

  7. #2547
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Good read about Scott Machado. Are second round pick?
    http://www.nba.com/2012/news/feature...ado/index.html
    Machodo would be a GREAT selection with one of our 2nd round picks. I'm all for it.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #2548
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    With so many good players to choose from we really can't go wrong in this draft. Whether it's T. Jones, Lamb, PJ3 etc. the talent level on the roster is about to get a serious boost.

    Say ping pong balls go our way and we get the second pick. Davis will be off the board and it will be a decision between Beal and MKG. Who do you pick? You could make a case for either being the bpa. Which need do you feel the Raptors need to fill the most? SG or SF?
    If it's up to me, I'd take MKG over Beal simply based on MKG's superstar potential. Beal's easily more NBA-ready, but MKG's motor and passion, combined with his developing skillset, it too much to pass up.

    There's a small part of me who would consider MKG with the 1st pick too.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If it's up to me, I'd take MKG over Beal simply based on MKG's superstar potential. Beal's easily more NBA-ready, but MKG's motor and passion, combined with his developing skillset, it too much to pass up.

    There's a small part of me who would consider MKG with the 1st pick too.
    I love MKG for the Raptors, or any franchise. He has "winner" stamped all over him. The probability that the Raptors will be able to get him is very low, though.

  10. #2550
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    MKG is a unique payer in the sense that he projects to be a lock down defender, but being that he is a perimeter player he can't impact a game on the defensive end which big men prospects like Duncan, Shaq, Oden were coveted for coming into the league. And he's not a player that currently has the capability to score easily at the NBA level. Yet professional scouts are really high on him and most mock drafts have him pegged to go second. I'm really interested to see how his career unfolds and see if he acheives the super star status so many beleive he will reach.

  11. #2551
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I really don't see the superstar potential everybody sees. I don't see him being more beer than Iggy

  12. #2552
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    Neither do I. He's got the physical tools, but not the skill as yet. He does also posess the intangibles like leadership, hustle, heart and will be a good defender from the jump. I think he'll be good, but I wouldn't rank him as high as most have him.

  13. #2553
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I actually worry that both Davis and MKG could disappoint, given their pick position. If Davis gets pushed around by more physical PF and becomes a player similar to Camby, and MKG doesn't develop an effective NBA offensive game (essentially becoming a defense-only specialist like Tony Allen on Memphis), I could see people viewing them as a bit of a bust. They'd still be great players, but not quite what you'd expect from players taken #1 and #2 in a draft.

  14. #2554
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Legitimate concerns. The one think I can say about Davis though is that he has the mobility of a guard player...you've probably heard that same story about how he had a huge growth spurt and how he retained guard skills even as a big man...so he can guard bigs without necessarily bodying them up. His reach is big enoug that he can play off the ball and still block shots. Ofcourse there are going to be situations where he'll be backed down in the post and he'll have gain strength for that. My concern with him will be more to do with injuries (like Camby) than anything else. He is also a far superior scoring threat than Camby was coming to the NBA.

    I share the same concerns with MKG. Right now the only sure thing is that he can be a really good defensive specialist, but might not be anything other than an average scoring threat. Unlike defensive bigs he can't impact the game in the post.

  15. #2555
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I really don't see the superstar potential everybody sees. I don't see him being more beer than Iggy
    I tend to agree assuming he doesn't add serious components to his game.

    Don't get me wrong, I am very drunk on MKG but the comparison to Iggy is a good one in my opinion.

  16. #2556
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I tend to agree assuming he doesn't add serious components to his game.

    Don't get me wrong, I am very drunk on MKG but the comparison to Iggy is a good one in my opinion.
    I'm a MKG lover, and almost everyone on this forum knows it.

    But I believe if this is the best case scenario, I mean, why not? Andre Iguodala is an all-star and a very good all-around basketball player. He'd be a player on any team that could be an important piece or key player, he'd fit into any situation very nicely. There is not much negative that Andre brings along. Only minus is everyone wants a superstar, and superstars only come around every couple drafts.

  17. #2557
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    I'm a MKG lover, and almost everyone on this forum knows it.

    But I believe if this is the best case scenario, I mean, why not? Andre Iguodala is an all-star and a very good all-around basketball player. He'd be a player on any team that could be an important piece or key player, he'd fit into any situation very nicely. There is not much negative that Andre brings along. Only minus is everyone wants a superstar, and superstars only come around every couple drafts.
    You are absolutely right in my opinion.

    I think the problem is when you start getting a top 2 or 3 draft pick, people have very high expectations. I don't think MKG will live up to the billing as a #2 draft pick - doesn't mean he won't be a good player though. Even AI was a #9 pick - although he should have been #8!

    I say this knowing the thread could very well get derailed but hopefully the point is received: Bargnani wouldn't have near the grief (both rightfully and wrongfully) heaped upon him if he were, say, #4-#6 pick. When you start getting #1-#3 picks expectations rise significantly. Dunleavy in Golden State is another one that pops to mind.

  18. #2558
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    you never know he could improve his offensive game and become a superstar

  19. #2559
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You are absolutely right in my opinion.

    I think the problem is when you start getting a top 2 or 3 draft pick, people have very high expectations. I don't think MKG will live up to the billing as a #2 draft pick - doesn't mean he won't be a good player though. Even AI was a #9 pick - although he should have been #8!

    I say this knowing the thread could very well get derailed but hopefully the point is received: Bargnani wouldn't have near the grief (both rightfully and wrongfully) heaped upon him if he were, say, #4-#6 pick. When you start getting #1-#3 picks expectations rise significantly. Dunleavy in Golden State is another one that pops to mind.
    But I believe the difference with Bargnani he has proven his ability to be that superstar type player. And to what NoPropsNeeded said, MKG could develop an offensive game on the perimeter and could well be a player people hope for.

    By all means, MKG is going to be a very good pro whether he will be a key player or superstar.

  20. #2560
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    i personally think that if BC thinks PJ3 can play the 3, we should draft him. We gotta hit this ball out of the park in this draft and PJ3 arguably has the highest potential out of anyone else cept maybe Davis to become a superstar. If Dwane casey can get a lazy bargnani to play D and dunk on danny granger then im sure he can do more with an athletic freak like PJ3.

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