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Thread: 2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

  1. #241
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Anthony Davis

    Anthony Davis might be the most physically gifted power forward since Kevin Garnett. His length, stride, will, and energy are eye-catching to say the least, and when you can say with confidence that at worst he will be a much better version of JaVale McGee and at best he can be at least as good as KG, that is a pretty good starting point.

    Beyond the physical, though, Davis really piqued my interest by doing some pretty impressive things from a game understanding standpoint. With thinner players, there is a continual concern about their physicality. However, that worry was put to rest early with Davis. He initiated contact off the ball continually, willing to meet opponents with an arm bar in the chest or back and not backing down when more experienced players attempted to intimidate him. In addition, young players often make the mistake of constantly attempting to block the shot of the players they are guarding, which often leaves them out of position at best and fouling at worst. It is simply a low-percentage play. Davis, however, challenges the shot of his matchup, then moves to rebounding position effectively. He also sees the value in going for weakside blocks, and moves into those areas quickly, giving the offense a chance to feel safe before uncoiling for the block.

    Davis races the floor, which is a major positive (and is breathtaking to watch), and he will pick up points just by virtue of his speed and commitment in transition. However, he is often out of position on the offensive end, and seems a little lost between being a post player and being a perimeter player. This is definitely teachable, and his season at Kentucky should help him in that regard. He plays well as the screen and roll player, holding his screen long enough and timing his roll to the basket well.

    In the post, however, Davis needs to recognize spots to seal his defender after he rolls when he doesn’t receive the ball immediately. In addition, he does not take advantage of his defender being out of position after skip passes, and lets the defender move around him much too easily. Anticipation here is the key, Coach Cal will be teaching Davis how to recognize what will be available at least one pass ahead of time. Davis will get easy scoring chances by carving out that spot and claiming it as his own, then demanding the ball once it gets to the player who can find him. This comes through experience.

    Overall, there are few prospects over the last few years to be as excited about as Anthony Davis. Watching him grow and mature over this season should be a real gift for basketball fans and whoever picks first in his draft.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/coach-obse...austin-rivers/


    It is official. I have a man crush on Anthony Davis.

  2. #242
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    A good read..... on a VERY small sample size.

    HoopsWorld and NBADraft.net have been drooling over Turner for months. Not only has he lost the starting position, he has been benched for going on 2 games.
    Great read. First thing I've read front to back from Hoopsworld in the LONG time. hahah
    Once Drummond figures out how to stay on the floor, he will be dominant.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I may take issue with this ...
    and when you can say with confidence that at worst he will be a much better version of JaVale McGee and at best he can be at least as good as KG, that is a pretty good starting point.
    Daivs is good, and will be for many years, but geezus ... Simmer down Hoopsworld. haha
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Disagree. I see Harrison Barnes as having one of the highest ceilings out of ANYONE in this draft.
    As I said, I like Barnes, but I don't see him having an elite level skill. Elite players generally have at least one supernatural skill that simply puts them in a different category. Barnes is a good scorer, shooter and defender. He's got pretty good handles and is a decent facilitator, but isn't great at creating shots for himself and doesn't have point forward skills passing the ball. He's got above average, although not elite, athleticism. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Brandon Roy. Now obviously a lot of Raptor fans would be happy with a Brandon Roy-type, as I would, but even without his knee problems, Roy was never on the same level as guys like LeBron, Kobe or Wade.

    WHat is it that's going to set Barnes apart?
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I may take issue with this ...


    Daivs is good, and will be for many years, but geezus ... Simmer down Hoopsworld. haha
    Don't know why you take issue with that. I'd say he'll immediately be better than JaVale McGee because he's got a better basketball IQ right now. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him as one of the top 5 players in the league 5 years from now.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    As I said, I like Barnes, but I don't see him having an elite level skill. Elite players generally have at least one supernatural skill that simply puts them in a different category. Barnes is a good scorer, shooter and defender. He's got pretty good handles and is a decent facilitator, but isn't great at creating shots for himself and doesn't have point forward skills passing the ball. He's got above average, although not elite, athleticism. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Brandon Roy. Now obviously a lot of Raptor fans would be happy with a Brandon Roy-type, as I would, but even without his knee problems, Roy was never on the same level as guys like LeBron, Kobe or Wade.

    WHat is it that's going to set Barnes apart?
    Barnes IQ, in my opinion, is ELITE. His feel for the game is ELITE.
    His dedication and work ethic is unquestionably Elite.
    His scoring ability is, in my opinion once again, Verging on Elite potential. He just knows how to score the ball.
    He works his butt off on D, and makes people better. We NEED a Small Forward who IS a Small Forward.
    We don't need a Point Forward. Or a Power Forward playing SF. We need a Legit Swingman, and Barnes is that and more.

    Did you watch him in the ACC tournament or March Madness last year? Creating a shot for himself was definitely NOT an issue.


    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Don't know why you take issue with that. I'd say he'll immediately be better than JaVale McGee because he's got a better basketball IQ right now. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him as one of the top 5 players in the league 5 years from now.
    My issue wasn't so much with Javale McGee, or even the comparison to KG. It was more in saying he can be "at least as good as" (ie Better than) a Future Hall of Famer after.. what? 3 games?

    You said so yourself in our Beasley debate. "NCAA means nothing." Or something to that effect.
    Last edited by Joey; Thu Nov 17th, 2011 at 05:53 PM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  7. #247
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Barnes IQ, in my opinion, is ELITE. His feel for the game is ELITE.
    His dedication and work ethic is unquestionably Elite.
    His scoring ability is, in my opinion once again, Verging on Elite potential. He just knows how to score the ball.
    He works his butt off on D, and makes people better. We NEED a Small Forward who IS a Small Forward.
    We don't need a Point Forward. Or a Power Forward playing SF. We need a Legit Swingman, and Barnes is that and more.

    Did you watch him in the ACC tournament or March Madness last year? Creating a shot for himself was definitely NOT an issue.
    He can create a shot for himself in college, but the big knock on him is whether he'll be able to do it in the pros.

    As for his IQ, that's great, but that's it's also yet another thing he's got in common with Brandon Roy. In a lot of ways, Barnes reminds me of Sean Elliott, another high IQ SF who didn't really have any elite skill.

    As for what the Raptors need more than anything, it's an elite player. Period. The Raptors are simply not talented enough to be picking and choosing what type of player they need. If the best player was a SG, then that's exactly who they should take because, however much I like DeRozan, he's not good enough to build your team around. And they need someone who is good enough to build the team around.

    In the NBA, it's often the best player who wins a Championship, so that means you need to try and draft the absolute best player. If it ends up being Barnes, then fine. But I think wanting him because he fills the needs of a 22 win team is not the smartest thing.

    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    My issue wasn't so much with Javale McGee, or even the comparison to KG. It was more in saying he can be "at least as good as" (ie Better than) a Future Hall of Famer after.. what? 3 games?

    You said so yourself in our Beasley debate. "NCAA means nothing." Or something to that effect.
    Well, for one thing, you're taking the quote out of context. This is the exact quote:

    ...at best he can be at least as good as KG
    I added the bold. In other words, his ceiling is to be better than KG. Not that he will be at least as good as Garnett.

    And I, as well as am guessing the scouts, are not basing it on just 3 college games. Have you watched the guy? He has the passing ability of a PG, the handles of a wingman, can shoot out to the 3 point line, it's impossible to keep him off the boards and he'll block anything close to him, but is a smart enough defender to know when not to go for blocks. He's got great hands and a very soft touch. He's also an extremely hard worker, athletic and has a great motor. And he's got an outstanding IQ. About the only two things working against him is his frame, which he can still fill out easily, and the fact that he doesn't exactly look like Denzel Washington- although Larry Bird was one of the best players in history and he had an ugly mug, so all is not lost.

    I don't give a crap that he doesn't fill any positional needs for the Raptors. If he's as good as he appears, then he's going to be one of the top players in the league and THAT'S what the Raptors need.
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  8. #248
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    I don't want him just because we need a Small Forward Tim. I thought that was pretty clear.
    Anyway, we disagree about how good he will be. Thats fine.


    And all I'm saying about Davis, is I think everyone needs to just relax a bit.
    Let him play a few more games before you sell the farm.
    Obviously he's been playing out of this world, but let's see what his whole body of work looks like before we start saying he could be a hall-of-famer. He's played a few College games. Thats it.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  9. #249
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't want him just because we need a Small Forward Tim. I thought that was pretty clear.
    Anyway, we disagree about how good he will be. Thats fine.


    And all I'm saying about Davis, is I think everyone needs to just relax a bit.
    Let him play a few more games before you sell the farm.
    Obviously he's been playing out of this world, but let's see what his whole body of work looks like before we start saying he could be a hall-of-famer. He's played a few College games. Thats it.
    I understand what you're saying. And I'm saying a 22 win team with the dearth of talent the Raptors have shouldn't be choosing a player based on what position he plays. And no one is suggesting Davis is going to be the best player or "selling the farm" on him. Just saying that he has shown to have a lot of potential. That's it.

    It's also WAY too early to start saying who you want to pick in the 2012 draft. Barnes is a viable candidate, but so are a several other players. Davis being one of them.

    And just remember that Davis also played some high school ball before Kentucky and looked pretty damn good there, too, so it's not just because of 3 games.
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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I've been set on drafting Barnes since his Junior year in Highschool when he led Ames to 26-0. I guess I'm biased and should have stated so much earlier in the debate. haha
    So I guess I also can't get upset at someone else for having a bit of a man-crush. Especially Anthony Davis. But that unibrow is UNREAL. hahah

    ADD And I think I was supposed to say "Bet the Farm" ... not "Sell the Farm" .. may have messed that idiom up. hahah

    ADD2 And not to rehash, but maybe just brush up on Barnes Freshman year and what he did for UNC ... was pretty impressive by any measure if you ask me. Let alone one of the finest Basketball Pedigrees in NCAA history...
    On November 1, 2010, Barnes was named a preseason All-American by the AP. He is the first freshman to ever receive this honor.

    Additionally, Barnes's 40 point performance set the record for points by a Freshman in an ACC Tournament game.

    Barnes scored the most points, as a freshman, in the ACC tournament since Phil Ford scored 78 points in 1975. He then went on to the NCAA tournament where he scored 84 points, the most points of any UNC freshman in history.
    *Soo Lazy so thats just from Wikipedia; but you get the idea.
    Barnes is just as Elite anyone else in the Top 5. In my opinion.
    Last edited by Joey; Thu Nov 17th, 2011 at 09:17 PM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

  11. #251
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I've been set on drafting Barnes since his Junior year in Highschool when he led Ames to 26-0. I guess I'm biased and should have stated so much earlier in the debate. haha
    So I guess I also can't get upset at someone else for having a bit of a man-crush. Especially Anthony Davis. But that unibrow is UNREAL. hahah

    ADD And I think I was supposed to say "Bet the Farm" ... not "Sell the Farm" .. may have messed that idiom up. hahah
    I would say you're more than a little biased. And as I said, I do like him and would not be upset if he were in a Raptor uniform next season. I just want to make sure whoever they choose is the best player, and not someone who simply fills a positional need.

    I do agree about that unibrow on Davis, though. It's hideous.
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    Sorry, I added more. haha
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    ADD2 And not to rehash, but maybe just brush up on Barnes Freshman year and what he did for UNC ... was pretty impressive by any measure if you ask me. Let alone one of the finest Basketball Pedigrees in NCAA history...


    *Soo Lazy so thats just from Wikipedia; but you get the idea.
    Barnes is just as Elite anyone else in the Top 5. In my opinion.
    Again, I do like the guy,, but if Barnes finishes college with a finer pedigree than Christian Laettner that would be something. And Laettner played in exactly one All-Star game in his NBA career. And Michael Beasley had one of the most impressive freshman seasons in NCAA history.

    I think that Barnes is definitely in the conversation for best player in the 2012 draft, but at this point Davis looks to have an edge because of his higher ceiling. While this may change, I simply see Davis being more of an impact player in the NBA than Barnes.
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    i really like barnes too but he doesn't look like a franchise player. Not explosive enough, i'd look for a guy like Quincy miller

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    i like Quincy Miller i think he'll be one of the top SF's this draft


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    I'd say Quincy Miller has a better chance of being an impact Small Forward than Anthony Davis.
    I see Davis as almost pure Power Forward at this point.

    It will be interesting to see how Miller and Perry Jones play together for a full season.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    reminds of kevin durant with his length and dunks. His shot doesn't look as great but i'm sure it'll become better once he puts some work in.

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    Early in the season, 5 possible number 1's:

    **Anthony Davis, PF, Kentucky

    Through his first two college games under John Calipari, the 6-foot-10 Davis is averaging 18.5 points, 8 rebounds and 6 blocks. Playing against No. 11 Kansas on Tuesday at Madison Square Garden, Davis put up 14 points, 7 blocks and 6 rebounds. He has 22 blocks through four games, if you count the team’s two exhibitions.

    “The ones that are truly shot-blockers … it was funny, Marcus Camby and I texted each other after the game,” Calipari said after the Kansas game. “I said, ‘Were you watching?’ He said, ‘I watch every one of your games.’ I said, ‘Does Davis remind you of a young Camby?’ He said, ‘Lots of laughter,’ and he says, ‘Yes, he does.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, but he shoots it better.’ ”

    Most NBA scouts believe Davis should be the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

    “I think right now he’s the frontrunner, but it’s early,” one veteran NBA scout said. “He’s a great talent. His upside is tremendous. His skill set is good now and getting better every day. He’s a terrific prospect.”
    **Harrison Barnes, SF, North Carolina

    The 6-8 Barnes opted not to go pro after his freshman season under coach Roy Williams, and the move could pay huge dividends, especially since there’s no NBA ball now anyway. Playing for the No. 1 team in the nation, Barnes is averaging 17 points and 5 rebounds through two games.

    He plays for a team loaded with future NBA picks in forwards Tyler Zeller and John Henson and point guard Kendall Marshall, but Barnes is the team’s most complete player.

    “Harrison Barnes is the most complete player in the country,” the NBA scout said.
    **Andre Drummond, C, UConn

    After deciding to enroll at UConn instead of spending a postgraduate year at prep school, Drummond arrived on campus with huge expectations. He’s averaging 6.3 points, 7.7 rebounds and 2.7 blocks through three games for the defending NCAA champs.

    Despite playing with a face mask due to a broken nose suffered during practice, he’s shown a proclivity for shot-blocking and highlight-reel dunks. After going scoreless in his first college game, the 6-10 Drummond posted his best game yet on Thursday against Maine, going for 14 points, 14 rebounds and 4 blocks.

    “Davis probably has a slight edge right now [for No. 1] from what the consensus seems to be, but we need to see what Drummond looks like with no face mask and a few months of college coaching underneath his belt,” said Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress.net.
    **Jared Sullinger, PF, Ohio State

    Like Barnes, Sullinger chose to remain on campus for his sophomore season instead of going one-and-done. The 6-9 post player is averaging 17.5 points and 7.5 rebounds through two games for the Buckeyes. After he put up 16 points and 6 rebounds Tuesday in an 81-74 victory over Florida, Gators sophomore center Patric Young broke out this analysis.

    “His size is a really big advantage that he has,” Young said of Sullinger. “He has a really big butt. I’m just saying, it really helps. I’m serious, it really helps him. He gets really good position and if you’re not ready, once he ducks you in, you can’t get around him.”
    **Perry Jones, PF, Baylor

    Jones averaged 13.9 points and 7.2 rebounds as a freshman with a slew of NBA scouts following his every move. Like Barnes and Sullinger, he, too, returned to campus.

    But Jones has yet to suit up this season because the NCAA ruled that Jones’ mother, Terri, had accepted illegal loans from an AAU coach to help her make mortgage payments two years before Perry had enrolled at Baylor.

    Now he must wait for the Bears to play fives games before he can get back on the court.

    “Jones was a projected top-5 pick all year long last year,” Givony said. “NBA scouts are enamored with his outstanding physical attributes and skill-level. Many feel he has the potential to develop into an All-Star caliber power forward. They are drafting him for what he could develop into in the next 2-3 years, not necessarily what he is now, which isn’t always all that impressive.

    “He was inconsistent last year and not as productive as you might hope, which is the reason he went from being considered a potential candidate for the #1 pick to a likely 3-5 selection had he entered. He’s still very much in that mix, even if the competition has stiffened somewhat for 2012.”
    Source: Adam Zagoria, SheridanHoops.com

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I'd say Quincy Miller has a better chance of being an impact Small Forward than Anthony Davis.
    I see Davis as almost pure Power Forward at this point.

    It will be interesting to see how Miller and Perry Jones play together for a full season.
    Who cares what position Davis plays? He's a better passer than any of the other potential number ones, and is looking like more and more of a monster on the defensive end. If the draft were held today, I'd go with Davis without hesitation.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Who cares what position Davis plays? He's a better passer than any of the other potential number ones, and is looking like more and more of a monster on the defensive end. If the draft were held today, I'd go with Davis without hesitation.
    Yes I know. But it's not. Which is ultimately my point.
    There is another 5 months to determine who exactly is the best player in the pack; and then, we have to figure out where exactly we will end up picking. Which, the odds are not #1.

    I'd like to see the team commit to Ed Davis (who IS a defensive monster already), Valanciunas and Demar. Which makes me more inclined to view potential picks in terms of how they will fit with our current 'core'. (which also includes are current 'Star Power Forward' player don't forget, Andrea Bargnani.)

    And Harrison Barnes is, in my opinion and many others, a can't-miss prospect, who would fit PERFECTLY in with our current core group of talent. A core group that I believe will be able to win alot of games as is, if given the chance to grow together.

    You make it seem as if we'd be a 22-win team no matter what unless we get Anthony Davis.
    Also a can't-miss prospect, but would ultimately require some moving up in the draft, and some movement of our current core group of players to accomodate. Both of which, I'm not really taking into consideration.
    Last edited by Joey; Sat Nov 19th, 2011 at 08:54 PM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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