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Thread: 2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

  1. #3001
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Sign me up on the Dion Waiters bandwagon. He has that Jason Terry mentality/swagger like he's the best, which we really need on the team. One thing we lack is a playmaker when the set play breaks down & he can help with that role.

    I'm imagining him with Bayless off the bench. That would be a dynamic bench scoring duo. 2 playmakers, 2 shotmakers & streaky. So having two would help eliminate the risk of having a cold streak; just give it to the other one. Kleiza can hit shots too by the way.

    I remember JB, Barbosa and Kleiza killing it last year *in some games ... shot us back into a few games.
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    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    From hoopshype the Raps take:

    Jeremy Lamb 6-5 SG Connecticut / Sophomore

    Like the Warriors, the Raptors already have a SG but would be able to move DeMar DeRozan over to his more natural SF position. The Raptors are said to be high on Lamb and will consider him here if he's available. Lamb gives them another talented prospect who could potentially play either wing position. Lamb is a 2/3 and has the length to be used at either wing position and the most upside available here. UConn faded, barely making the tourney and bowing out in the first round. How much of the blame should be placed on Lamb depends on who you ask. He has more potential than Bradley Beal, but his disappearing act has left his stock in doubt. He created a lot of intrigue with the Huskies title run a year ago, but was unable to take over (for Kemba Walker) as the team's much needed vocal leader. He needs to get tougher both mentally and physically as he avoids contact and can be thrown off his game by bigger, stronger opponents that get physical with him. He remains one of the most intriguing prospects in this year's draft, but his lack of consistency, vocal leadership and assertiveness has dropped his stock some.

    Comparison: Reggie Miller Stats: 17.7 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.8 apg
    Rookie season salary*: $2,563,320 Ranking: 2nd Shooting Guard / 2nd Sophomore
    They have Lillard at 6 and Beal at 7.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    BC should just gamble and take PJ3. Screw the safe picks, he's easily the best guy available at 8

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    37 i like machado and then darius miller

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    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    BC should just gamble and take PJ3. Screw the safe picks, he's easily the best guy available at 8
    I like the risk/reward potential with PJ3, but screw the "safe picks"? That's ridiculous. I want all the players in our range evaluated to the fullest extent possible and I want our team's staff to make the choice that they believe will be in the raps' best interest, PJ3 be damned.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    BC should just gamble and take PJ3. Screw the safe picks, he's easily the best guy available at 8
    The last time the Raptors said screw the safe pick at #8, they ended up with Rafael Araujo.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    What do you mean by leading men? So just cause Dion Waiters came off the bench, that means that his not on par with Beal? DeMar starts does that mean his better than Harden? No, Harden is on a better team. Even though his a better player than who starts over him. He accepts his role for the benefit for the team. Same thing with Dion he was on a way deeper and better team than Beal. He was obviously the better guard on that team but, they were better with him coming off the bench.

    About why I support him is cause I'm a fan of his game. He has this toughness that this team definitely lacks. The fact that he can create his shot(something i'm not that all sold on Beal with).
    Strange. You're really good at cherry picking quotes. Here are some I am including in my evaluation of Waiters that you aren't

    Despite finishing the season with a breakout performance in the Sweet Sixteen, rumors swirled that the freshman shooting guard would transfer. In addition to Syracuse's deep and talented 2011-2012 backcourt, Waiters and coach Jim Boeheim never seemed on quite the same page last season.
    From DraftExpress.com


    Which led me to:
    This

    Let's see what this says...
    The future of Syracuse freshman guard Dion Waiters is uncertain heading into next season, Orange coach Jim Boeheim said Saturday.

    Speaking at a clinic at Manhattan College, Boeheim said Waiters' return to Syracuse is "up in the air" and will be resolved by the end of the school year.

    "Sometimes change is good for everyone," Boeheim said.
    I admire the fact that Waiters and Boeheim fixed there issues. I'm sure that involved some humbling on Waiters side. The kid grew up a bit. I respect that. I also mentioned that in my earlier post, but you're too busy looking at my negative assessments. I still think Waiters is a first round player. I just don't see the rosy picture that you do. Also Colangelo, rarely drafts people with "personality" issues.

    So how is Beal a leader of men?
    Do you mean the person who was the 2011 Gatorade player of the Year?
    The Under 17 World Champion?
    Or the best player on Florida who played both PG and SG?

    As crazy as it sound there are people who have Beal ranked higher than Kidd-Gilchrist (That's a Kentucky blog!).

    Really? This is a debate?
    Let me know and I'll break it down, or better, you could research Beal as intensely as you are running around to push Waiters.

  8. #3008
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    The last time the Raptors said screw the safe pick at #8, they ended up with Rafael Araujo.
    Ahhhh the pain and horror of reliving that memory on a Sunday morning!

  9. #3009
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...sct=nba_t12_a0

    I get a bad vibe reading this article on Perry Jones III and his quest to prove he can play SF.


    "I feel way more confident than I ever was at Baylor," said Jones, who will head for Chicago predraft camp next week like most of the top-level prospects. "Working out three times a day, I feel great. I see the potential I have. I'm actually using the potential I have.

    "I've been using it in workouts. They've been going great, playing three-on-three or one-on-one. I do a lot that I normally wouldn't do. I'm just a lot more confident when I'm playing ball."

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1wk772imv
    "It's probably the level of training (that has helped his confidence), the level of competition that there is now," Jones said. "It's far greater than college. Just playing against older guys, against more experienced people, all the time, having the freedom to just play basketball. That's the best part."

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1wk7EpNmu

    "For example, the first day (in Santa Barbara) we did a 25-shot drill. For college-range threes, I made 18-of-25. And from pro-range threes, I made 15-of-25. I didn't shoot threes well in college, and I barely shot the three -- I think -- because I was thinking a lot in college."

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1wk7L7i42

    "I was thinking instead of just playing off of instinct," he continued to explain. "And I had a team (around him). I didn't feel pressure to be a great scorer because I had so many other people who could score around me. Just now, I realized that it doesn't matter who's on my team or who's around me, it shouldn't hinder what I can do best -- and that's score the basketball.

    "I think now, if I could do it over, I wouldn't let anybody get in the way of me being able to score the ball. I wouldn't think twice about shooting it. I'm probably the most confident that I've ever been (now)."

    Those same teammates that he so often deferred to saw the progress recently, too.

    "I played open gym with a couple of my (former Baylor) teammates when I went to take my finals, and they were asking me why I didn't play like that the past two years," he said. "I had no explanation for it. I don't know. I guess the hard work is paying off."

    Truth be told, though, even this well-constructed pre-draft program won't clear the memory banks of scouts and executives who spent the last two years wondering why Jones didn't do more. It could be argued that he has more raw talent than anyone in the draft, yet he could turn out to be a late lottery pick (I have him going tenth to New Orleans in my first mock draft). Of all the high-profile prospects being so seriously scrutinized, no one has more convincing left to do than Jones.

    "(NBA executives) can either base things off what I did in college, or they can base it off what they see in the near future," Jones said. "If they want me to come in and work out for them, they can base it off what they see there. If they don't see that I've been working hard every day and that I really want this, then I can't say nothing about it."

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1wk7VEGJL
    These quotes make me think of Hasheem Thabeet to be honest: a really physically gifted player who did not truly have a drive or passion to be great at the game. It sounds, to me at least, as if just actually started to work hard on his game for the first time. I find it troubling that this hard work is coming at a time when he is in line for guaranteed money - and the higher he is selected, the more guaranteed he will see.


    I am glad I am not the one who has to make the decision on him. He really seems like he could be a career maker or breaker for a GM.

  10. #3010
    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Default Bpa

    We should draft Jeremy Lamb with the 8th pick. Jonas and Jeremy the killer J's lol

  11. #3011
    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Default Jeremy Lamb


  12. #3012
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Lamb a better prospect than Beal?

    Considering the source is Joel Brigham at HoopsWorld.com, you might want to open your mouth and shake the salt shaker for a good 5-10 minutes before reading the following:

    There’s even the suggestion that if they can’t swing a deal, Cleveland might rate Lamb higher than Beal on their list of top shooting guards anyway, and based on early workouts that might not be as crazy as some fans think. Beal has reportedly been stiff and slow at workouts, and Lamb is generally considered to have a higher ceiling. The fourth pick might be a little high for him, but if the Blazers agreed to swing that deal, it could benefit both parties. At #4, Portland could get a player like Drummond or Harrison Barnes that might not have been available to them two picks later.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-sunday...ve-the-bobcats
    Interesting nonetheless - regardless of source.

  13. #3013
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    Strange. You're really good at cherry picking quotes. Here are some I am including in my evaluation of Waiters that you aren't


    From DraftExpress.com


    Which led me to:
    This

    Let's see what this says...


    I admire the fact that Waiters and Boeheim fixed there issues. I'm sure that involved some humbling on Waiters side. The kid grew up a bit. I respect that. I also mentioned that in my earlier post, but you're too busy looking at my negative assessments. I still think Waiters is a first round player. I just don't see the rosy picture that you do. Also Colangelo, rarely drafts people with "personality" issues.

    So how is Beal a leader of men?
    Do you mean the person who was the 2011 Gatorade player of the Year?
    The Under 17 World Champion?
    Or the best player on Florida who played both PG and SG?

    As crazy as it sound there are people who have Beal ranked higher than Kidd-Gilchrist (That's a Kentucky blog!).

    Really? This is a debate?
    Let me know and I'll break it down, or better, you could research Beal as intensely as you are running around to push Waiters.
    Never said I didn't like Beal. I've supported him in the past. I feel like we already have guys that are best at when their spotting up for a jump shot either from mid-range or three. The Jose Calderon era is almost over. Open looks wont come as easy anymore. That's why I prefer Dion Waiters. He get's to the rim at will. I can't say the same about Beal

    The whole leading of men? All those teams he led they were all kids not men. What do High School awards really mean at this point. Pretty sure Russell Westbrook was never in line for any of those awards in High school. Look at him now.

    I wouldn't say he has personality issues. He just had a lot of maturing to do.
    Waiters has a message for all 30 GMs in the league.

    "I'm not a bad kid. And I can play defense," he says with a smile after completing an hour workout with Abunassar.

    Waiters obviously has his ear to the ground and bristles at the characterization that he's a troublemaker.

    The concerns spawn from an awkward situation last summer when Waiters and head coach Jim Boeheim questioned whether they could coexist anymore.

    Waiters came to Syracuse ranked as a top-15 prospect by ESPN and expected to contribute right away. However, he showed up to school in less-than-ideal conditioning. Boeheim became frustrated with his lack of intensity on the defensive end. The media picked up on some poor body language. By the end of the season, Waiters and Boeheim were at odds.

    "He had nothing to be frustrated about because he was 100 percent wrong," Boeheim told The New York Times. "He played no defense last year. Not some. None."

    Waiters, however, stuck it out. "I called my mom after almost every game crying," he told me on Tuesday. "But she just told me to keep going. To not give up. I'm glad I listened to her. I matured this year."

    "I came to Syracuse a boy," Waiters added. "I left as a man."

    Waiters came back in the best shape of his career. He embraced his role as the team's sixth man. He showed off point guard skills that scouts didn't know he had. He was Syracuse's best player. Coach Boeheim praised him all year. However, the questions persist.

    "A lot of people judge me, but they don't know me," Waiters said. "I'm a good kid. I've never been in trouble. I've never been arrested. I don't hang around bad people. I was immature when I came to school. I was overwhelmed. But I put in the work to get better. Coach and I didn't bump heads all season. I'm very coachable. I just needed a little room to grow."

    Waiters grew up in a tough situation in Philly. He left his family at the age of 15 to attend prep school. The move was traumatic for him. In the last year, he told me, he lost three cousins and a best friend. So if he looks too serious, it's because life, both on and off the court, is serious business for him.

    Waiters also says that people misread his body language on the court. "You don't see Kobe smiling on the court. When I'm out there, it's all business. I want to win. I want to destroy my opponent. That's my focus. Smiling is for after the game, not during it."
    The last time Bryan made pick on a player with so called personality issue he was rookie of the year(Amar'e Stoudemire)
    @Chr1st1anL

  14. #3014
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Default Perry Jones Proving He’s a Small Forward?

    As such, (Perry) Jones and his representatives devised a new plan in this eleventh hour stage of the process. Despite being seen as a power forward during his prep days and two collegiate seasons (a face-up four with the ability to go inside, to be more specific), Jones’ small forward skills are being emphasized now in an attempt to make him even more marketable to the many talent evaluators who no longer see him as a top-five pick like they did a year ago. Jones, who has been training here for the past six weeks, took a break between his morning strength work and his afternoon basketball sessions to discuss his situation on Friday.

    He is considered one of the greatest mysteries of this group, a supremely talented player with the rarest of skill-sets and size (6-foot-11, 235 pounds) whose lack of assertiveness, toughness or consistency in college raised questions about whether he’d ever maximize his potential. And while we’ll delve deeper into Jones’ personal story soon as part of our ongoing draft coverage, he had a message to share that simply couldn’t wait: regardless of what position he plays, he’s finally starting to see how special he could be.

    “I feel way more confident than I ever was at Baylor,” said Jones, who will head for Chicago predraft camp next week like most of the top-level prospects. “Working out three times a day, I feel great. I see the potential I have. I’m actually using the potential I have.
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/perry-jone...-small-forward

    Jones, who is training at P3 Peak Performance, believes Baylor failed to maximize his skill set.

    Seeing the player that I've become over the past month or so, I wasn't used well at all,” Jones said. "For example, the first day we did a 25-shot drill. For college-range threes, I made 18-of-25. And from pro-range threes, I made 15-of-25. I didn't shoot threes well in college, and I barely shot the three -- I think -- because I was thinking a lot in college."

    Jones struggled with poor shot selection and a tendency to disappear for long stretches of games.

    "I was thinking instead of just playing off of instinct," Jones continued to explain. "And I had a team (around him). I didn't feel pressure to be a great scorer because I had so many other people who could score around me. Just now, I realized that it doesn't matter who's on my team or who's around me, it shouldn't hinder what I can do best -- and that's score the basketball.

    "I think now, if I could do it over, I wouldn't let anybody get in the way of me being able to score the ball. I wouldn't think twice about shooting it. I'm probably the most confident that I've ever been (now)."

    Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...#ixzz1wkSBSVu8

    I don't know if PJ3 will pan out but, one think is for sure. He got bouncce!



    Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 at 12:31 PM.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    http://www.hoopsworld.com/perry-jone...-small-forward

    I don't know if PJ3 will pan out but, one think is for sure. He got bouncce!



    I put a lot of the quotes from this original SI.com story in post 3009.

    As I said there, PJ3 makes me nervous reading his quotes. I really do question the passion he has for the game if he is only working hard now and realizing what he can do. As said in previous post:

    These quotes make me think of Hasheem Thabeet to be honest: a really physically gifted player who did not truly have a drive or passion to be great at the game. It sounds, to me at least, as if just actually started to work hard on his game for the first time. I find it troubling that this hard work is coming at a time when he is in line for guaranteed money - and the higher he is selected, the more guaranteed he will see.


    I am glad I am not the one who has to make the decision on him. He really seems like he could be a career maker or breaker for a GM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I put a lot of the quotes from this original SI.com story in post 3009.

    As I said there, PJ3 makes me nervous reading his quotes. I really do question the passion he has for the game if he is only working hard now and realizing what he can do. As said in previous post:

    These quotes make me think of Hasheem Thabeet to be honest: a really physically gifted player who did not truly have a drive or passion to be great at the game. It sounds, to me at least, as if just actually started to work hard on his game for the first time. I find it troubling that this hard work is coming at a time when he is in line for guaranteed money - and the higher he is selected, the more guaranteed he will see.


    I am glad I am not the one who has to make the decision on him. He really seems like he could be a career maker or breaker for a GM.
    That does make sense but, Thabeet was playing strictly off his physical gifts. Perry Jones is skilled. I do agree with you if you pick him your either going to get praised or stoned.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    From a talent standpoint, I think he's (Perry Jones) got the most talent in the whole damn draft. Hands down. Talent wise, I feel he's better than Anthony Davis. But goodness, and I've said this hundreds of times - it's what's between the ears is what scares me and what prevents me from being on board with that selection. His aversion playing defense in game, and defering to teammates when you're supposed to be 'the man' speaks volumes about him. Maybe he needs to go a place where he won't be counted on to be that franchise's saviour is where he'll flourish the most. With that being said, a place like Golden State would be perfect for him.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    That does make sense but, Thabeet was playing strictly off his physical gifts. Perry Jones is skilled. I do agree with you if you pick him your either going to get praised or stoned.
    If you have no heart and a low basketball IQ, skills and physical gifts mean nothing. Those quotes make me question his desire and basketball intelligence.

    However, he is a very intriguing prospect to say the least due to his physical ability and skills.

  19. #3019
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Perry Jones III

    Strengths:
    * Great run/jump athlete
    * Extremely long
    * Inside-outside offensive game
    * Can play several positions
    * Good rebounder
    * Solid shot blocker

    Weaknesses:
    * Needs to get stronger
    * Some scouts question his motor
    * Still developing and learning the game

    NBA projection:
    Jones is going to be a lottery pick. Some scouts are concerned whether Jones plays with enough passion and consistency. Others believe he was miscast in college — an opinion even the Baylor coaching staff shares — and is better suited to play shooting guard or small forward at the next level. No one denies that he’s got immense physical skills and rare gifts, including the ability to score inside or on the perimeter. Those kinds of players don’t show up often.

    2011-12 Season:
    Jones averaged nearly 14 points and eight rebounds and led his team to the NCAA Tournament Elite Eight and still drew a raft of criticism because some people believe he doesn’t play hard all the time. Jones was just a second-team All-Big 12 pick by the media and third team by the league’s coaches, but he also played on a deep and balanced team and didn’t have to try and dominate games.

    Key statistics:
    13.5 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 1.3 apg, 1.7 tpg, 0.8 spg, 0.6 bpg, 30.7 mpg, .500 FG, .696 FT, .303 3PT

    Cool statistic:
    In games where Jones made a 3-pointer, he averaged 21 points and 12 rebounds. In games he didn’t make a 3, he averaged 12 points and six boards.

    Reminds me of:
    Anthony Randolph

    What Insiders Say:
    Baylor coach Scott Drew
    "The NBA projects him high. The reason they project him high is because they know at 25, you've got an NBA All-Star potentially, multiple year All-Star. But right now Perry's not anywhere where he will be because mentally, physically, he's a late bloomer in his game."

    Baylor assistant coach Jerome Tang
    "The way he’s going to play and how they’re going to play him in the NBA is different than how we needed him to play or maybe even in hindsight of how we should have played him."

    What Outsiders Say:
    Kentucky coach John Calipari
    "It takes big guys a little longer than it does [guards to develop]. He is a terrific player. I will say if you listen to all of it [criticism], it screws you up. Don't read it. Don't listen to it. Don't deal with it. Be your own cheerleader. And then, if you're working at it, he's fine."
    I find it interesting that even the Baylor coaching staff acknowledged that they used him wrong. Found that the cool statistic part interesting as well. The fact he plays much better after just making one three. I think he just feels more comfortable on the perimeter.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    It seems that there are two or three prospects who might wow a team selecting very high (above the Raptors), which would shake up the lottery and shake loose a desirable prospect for the Raptors. For example, if Lamb and PJ3 both jumped up into the top 7, Barnes or Beal might actually be available. I think that there is enough unpredictability in the draft this year that it might be wise to hang onto #8 until draft day and see what falls out before looking to trade.

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