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Thread: 2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

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    Seriously.

    I'm all about building through the draft. Especially since there really isn't any other option for TO. I'm just bitching about how much the Raps need a franchise player in order to be like the Thunder. And honestly, they better they get him next year cause DD and Davis are gonna be getting better and the Raps are gonna be getting less lottery balls every year. Thunder had that advantage where Durant was the 1st of the core they drafted, and everything else was sweet sweet gravy. I'm just scared the Raps could end up being the next Pacers or Reckets or something.

    But yeah, you never know. Raps could pull a Chicago one year and score Rose (they finished 9th that year). Or do something like Memphis, getting lots of good young players then bringin in Z-Bo.

    Sorry I'm a little all over the place. I guess my point is if you want the Thunder model you NEED (all caps) a franchise player. And realistically the door to getting one through the draft is closing since the players the Raps have now are getting better.
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    I will be a happy man if Brian can get a second lottery pick in 2012. We need our franchise player and you have a much better chance of selecting one with 2 picks than just one. The problem I have is that I have no faith in Brian when it comes to getting a second pick. All I've seen him do is trade away picks or just take the pick that was given to him.

    It would have been nice to see some action in the 2011 draft, but he just kept his pick and used it. That is why I don't have much faith in him getting another pick in 2012 - but if he can hire a GM that is willing to make moves during the draft, then I would feel more optimistic.

    The Thunder got Durant which was lucky.. but they also got Green for trading Ray Allen.

    If only Brian could summon the courage to trade away Bargnani for another pick. I have a few suggestions that can help him out.

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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Seriously.

    I'm all about building through the draft. Especially since there really isn't any other option for TO. I'm just bitching about how much the Raps need a franchise player in order to be like the Thunder. And honestly, they better they get him next year cause DD and Davis are gonna be getting better and the Raps are gonna be getting less lottery balls every year. Thunder had that advantage where Durant was the 1st of the core they drafted, and everything else was sweet sweet gravy. I'm just scared the Raps could end up being the next Pacers or Reckets or something.

    But yeah, you never know. Raps could pull a Chicago one year and score Rose (they finished 9th that year). Or do something like Memphis, getting lots of good young players then bringin in Z-Bo.

    Sorry I'm a little all over the place. I guess my point is if you want the Thunder model you NEED (all caps) a franchise player. And realistically the door to getting one through the draft is closing since the players the Raps have now are getting better.
    All valid points - and I apologize if I am all over the place in what is coming.

    Luckiliy next year is proving to be a deep draft (unless the age limit is bumped - that would be a kick in the gonads) and what I trust most in Colangelo is his drafting.

    I hear your point and 100% agree - they need a franchise player.

    A couple of things that make me optimistic:

    1) end of that DD highlight reel in another thread, Ed says something to the effect of in a couple of years we'll be scary - seems like he is in it for the longer term.
    2) The younger players, DD especially, seems to legitimately like Toronto. Bayless, too. Ed Davis I am unsure of. Toronto is a great city. I'm sure they realize if they win they'll get noticed - if they even care about that (i.e. are they more like Duncan or Bosh?).
    3) the Raps have the hardest position to acquire talent in basketball wrapped up moving forward (C). Hopefully Jonas fulfills potential and expectations (this statement is not based on the hype of the U19's).
    4) when you have a franchise talent, you know it very quickly. The Raptors have two years to worry about DD and 3 for ED - add another year if restricted free agency remains in effect.
    5) the Raps will have opportunities to offer extensions before rookie deals are up - even Bosh and Carter didn't turn down their first extensions.
    6) the nay-sayers will definitely disagree but I do believe there is a culture change coming to Toronto. It has been evident in the types of trades and players brought in the last 2 years. It is evident from BC's comments towards Bargnani. It is evident from the new coach.
    7) Everyone on the team, coaches, and management, minus Bargnani and Amir, are on short-term deals (i.e. 2 years or less) and/or rookie deals. They all have something to prove with big implications if not. I'd rather back people in those situations.
    8) there is good financial flexibility moving forward and decent assets.

    Alright, it turned in to more than a few things - oops.

  4. #104
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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    I guess my point is if you want the Thunder model you NEED (all caps) a franchise player. And realistically the door to getting one through the draft is closing since the players the Raps have now are getting better.
    If you want to win a Championship, the only realistic models involve getting a franchise player.
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    All valid points - and I apologize if I am all over the place in what is coming.

    Luckiliy next year is proving to be a deep draft (unless the age limit is bumped - that would be a kick in the gonads) and what I trust most in Colangelo is his drafting.

    I hear your point and 100% agree - they need a franchise player.

    A couple of things that make me optimistic:

    1) end of that DD highlight reel in another thread, Ed says something to the effect of in a couple of years we'll be scary - seems like he is in it for the longer term.
    2) The younger players, DD especially, seems to legitimately like Toronto. Bayless, too. Ed Davis I am unsure of. Toronto is a great city. I'm sure they realize if they win they'll get noticed - if they even care about that (i.e. are they more like Duncan or Bosh?).
    3) the Raps have the hardest position to acquire talent in basketball wrapped up moving forward (C). Hopefully Jonas fulfills potential and expectations (this statement is not based on the hype of the U19's).
    4) when you have a franchise talent, you know it very quickly. The Raptors have two years to worry about DD and 3 for ED - add another year if restricted free agency remains in effect.
    5) the Raps will have opportunities to offer extensions before rookie deals are up - even Bosh and Carter didn't turn down their first extensions.
    6) the nay-sayers will definitely disagree but I do believe there is a culture change coming to Toronto. It has been evident in the types of trades and players brought in the last 2 years. It is evident from BC's comments towards Bargnani. It is evident from the new coach.
    7) Everyone on the team, coaches, and management, minus Bargnani and Amir, are on short-term deals (i.e. 2 years or less) and/or rookie deals. They all have something to prove with big implications if not. I'd rather back people in those situations.
    8) there is good financial flexibility moving forward and decent assets.

    Alright, it turned in to more than a few things - oops.
    Yeah man I agree with everything you said. And to be clear too, if the Raps don't find a franchise player in the draft it's not the end of the world. If you got lots of assets you can trade for talent. Or bring one in like the Griz did.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If you want to win a Championship, the only realistic models involve getting a franchise player.
    I know Tim. I wasn't sayin otherwise!
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  7. #107
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    If you want to win a Championship, the only realistic models involve getting a franchise player.
    I disagree, the pistons showed how you can win as a team

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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I disagree, the pistons showed how you can win as a team
    The Pistons showed that in a season in flux, where one contender has injuries and another is imploding due to two superstars who can't get along, that a team can sneak in and win a Championship. I'm not saying the Pistons weren't an excellent team, but they were one of the worst Championship teams in the last 30 years and were pretty much a fluke. They're the only NBA Champion that did not have a player who had even one appearance on an All-NBA team. It's like pointing to the baby who was dropped from the Capilano bridge, some years back, as proof that you can drop your baby from that height.

    Is it POSSIBLE to build a Championship team without a superstar? Sure. Is it far, far, far, far more likely to build one with a superstar? Damn right. And in fact the odds of drafting a superstar are actually better than winning a Championship without one.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The Pistons showed that in a season in flux, where one contender has injuries and another is imploding due to two superstars who can't get along, that a team can sneak in and win a Championship. I'm not saying the Pistons weren't an excellent team, but they were one of the worst Championship teams in the last 30 years and were pretty much a fluke. They're the only NBA Champion that did not have a player who had even one appearance on an All-NBA team. It's like pointing to the baby who was dropped from the Capilano bridge, some years back, as proof that you can drop your baby from that height.
    How can you call them a fluke. They made the conference final for six consecutive seasons from 2002/3 untill 2007/8. How can you compare that with extreme luck (as you did with the comparison with the dropping baby). It's not like they were first or second round losers all the time and won the championship one time. They were consistently amongst the contenders for the Wallace years. Even two years after winning the finals they had a season of 64 wins (and 4 allstars I think).

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    How can you call them a fluke. They made the conference final for six consecutive seasons from 2002/3 untill 2007/8. How can you compare that with extreme luck (as you did with the comparison with the dropping baby). It's not like they were first or second round losers all the time and won the championship one time. They were consistently amongst the contenders for the Wallace years. Even two years after winning the finals they had a season of 64 wins (and 4 allstars I think).
    They were a fluke because they weren't the best team in the league the year they won. And while I did say they were an excellent team, there's a big difference between a Conference Finals team and a Champion. Phoenix and Sacramento both made the Conference Finals multiple times, but neither played defense the way NBA Champions do.

    Another reason they were a fluke is because they are the exception. You can't model yourself after the exception and expect the same results.
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  11. #111
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    Default 2012 Sophmores

    Forgetting the fact there will a player who comes out of 'nowhere' such as Derrick Williams, here is a rundown on sophomores to watch in 2011/12 NCAA play:

    The 2011-2012 NCAA season is already highly anticipated and one of the major reasons why is all of the talented freshmen who decided to stay in school for their sophomore year. It's not very often that prospects turn down a guaranteed spot in the lottery like North Carolina's Harrison Barnes and Ohio State's Jared Sullinger did. We can partially thank the lockout in the NBA for that.

    However, there was more to their choice than just the possible work stoppage in the NBA. They felt like they could benefit from another year of development in college. The allure of competing for a national championship was key as well.

    As mentioned in our breakdown of the top incoming freshmen, there is a chance that we see the age limit to enter the draft increased. It's highly unlikely, though, that the requirement is more than two years. So, here's a look at the premier sophomores in the country who we could be seeing the last of in the NCAA next season.

    Harrison Barnes (North Carolina) - 6'8, 210 lbs. Small Forward
    During the second half of the season Barnes found himself and finally started to play like the player who was ranked as the top high schooler in the 2010 recruiting class. By then, though, Duke point guard Kyrie Irving had surpassed him as the number one prospect in the draft. Barnes stayed with the hopes of regaining that top spot and adding a national championship to his résumé.

    With a year of experience under his belt and one of the best supporting casts in the country, Barnes is one of the favorites for Player of the Year honors. He's in a great position to accomplish his goals and appears to be putting in the necessary work this summer as well.

    Jared Sullinger (Ohio State) - 6'9, 280 lbs. Power Forward
    A few of the teams picking high in this past draft are still disappointed with Sullinger's decision to stay in school. There's no way he would have slipped out of the top eight, in fact he may have even gone as high as three to the Utah Jazz or four to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

    This summer Sullinger has been working on slimming down, increasing his range and improving his ball-handling skills. That's vital if he's going to hang with the new-age power forwards that are becoming so prevalent in the NBA. Sullinger has his work cut out for him on being better than last season after posting up 17 points and 10 rebounds a game on 54% shooting from the field.

    Perry Jones (Baylor) - 6'11, 235 lbs. Small Forward/Power Forward
    The tail end of last season served as a very big reality check for Jones. With Baylor's tournament life on the line he failed to rise to the occasion like his team needed him too. He was just mediocre as they went 2-6 to finish the year, missing out on the tournament. He was just a spectator for the final game of the year due to being suspended by the NCAA for receiving impermissible benefits.

    As a sophomore Jones has to take matters into his hands more and start playing winning basketball. While that partially entails being more assertive offensively, being more aggressive on the boards and defensively are just as important. With his talent there isn't an aspect of the game he shouldn't have a major impact on.

    Terrence Jones (Kentucky) - 6'8, 244 lbs. Small Forward/Power Forward
    When NBA personnel told Jones at Kentucky head coach John Calipari's combine that he could potentially be a top ten pick if he returned, it was far from a guarantee and Jones shouldn't have taken it as such. In a draft class as loaded as next year's is supposed to be, it's going to be far easier for him to play his way out of the top ten than in.

    As a sophomore Jones cannot afford to be as inconsistent as he was last year. He'll need to finish the year much stronger and assume the leadership role on the Wildcats.

    Patric Young (Florida) - 6'9, 245 lbs. Power Forward
    When it comes to the eye test, Young passes with flying colors. He's got nice size for the power forward position, is brutally strong and a real finisher around the basket. Yet, somehow he only managed to average three point and three rebounds as a freshman. He did only play 17 minutes a night, but the expectations were for him to be much better even in limited minutes.

    Young's sophomore year is all about putting together his incredible set of tools. He's shown some intriguing flashes with USA Basketball U19 team during the summer. If he can carry that over into the Gators' season, his freshman year will become nothing more than an afterthought chalked up as a development/adjustment year.

    Joshua Smith (UCLA) - 6'10, 305 lbs. Power Forward/Center
    With Sullinger earning most of the headlines last year, Smith's improvements and noteworthy play really flew under the radar. He's a dominating physical presence just like Sullinger, but is not yet as effective or skilled as the Buckeye. His potential is nearly as immense, though.

    Smith is on track to be a standout in '11-'12 and a future pro as long as he remains committed to his conditioning and developing his low post game. Staying out of foul trouble is also very important as he was quite plagued with it as a freshman.

    C.J. Leslie (N.C. State) - 6'8, 206 lbs. Small Forward/Power Forward
    Like most freshman, consistency wasn't a strength of Leslie's. He spent time at both forward positions and looked like a dominating player at times, but then there were other times where he just blended in like someone who wouldn't ever play basketball again after receiving their degree.

    With a raw offensive game, Leslie has to show more polish as a sophomore if he's going to be on his way to the league. It'll also be time to start getting comfortable at one position in particular. Right now he looks better suited to play inside due to his lack of a reliable jump shot or dribbling skills.

    Kendall Marshall (North Carolina) - 6'3, 186 lbs. Point Guard
    The Tar Heels really took off last year when Marshall took over at point guard. The true playmaker gave them exactly what they needed to take their game to the next level and going into next season the position clearly belongs to him.

    With so many great weapons around him, Marshall should be amongst the nation's leaders in assists. He's a pass-first guard, but when he does look to score he needs to be more efficient. That will help NBA teams accept his athletic limitations.

    Jeremy Lamb (UConn) - 6'5, 185 lbs. Shooting Guard
    At the beginning of the year Lamb looked like a project who was going to provide UConn with minimal help throughout the season. At the end he was one of the hottest shooting guard prospects in the land who played an intricate role in the Huskies' run to the championship.

    Lamb opted against leaving while his stock was hot, knowing that a much bigger role awaited him as a sophomore. With Kemba Walker, who is now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, gone the Huskies are once again going to go into the season with little expectations. If Lamb helps them shock the world once more, he'll see his stock continue to climb.

    Doron Lamb (Kentucky) - 6'4, 195 lbs. Shooting Guard
    Next year Lamb is going to be living every collegiate shooter's dream. He's going to be playing with two dominating big men in Jones and Anthony Davis and a stellar playmaker in Marquis Teague who will really make his life easy. He'll be the recipient of regular open looks from beyond the arc. At times it will probably almost seem like he's not being guarded at all due to all the attention his teammates are going to garner.

    Lamb isn't just a three-point shooter, though, that's just his most reliable weapon right now. He's got a solid all-around offensive game and should be able to build nicely on his solid freshman campaign.

    Honorable Mention: Tim Hardaway Jr. (Michigan), Doug McDermott (Creighton), Augustine Rubit (South Alabama), DeAndre Kane (Marshall), Will Barton (Memphis) and Terrell Stoglin (Maryland).

    Yannis Koutroupis is a senior NCAA and NBA analyst for HOOPSWORLD. You can follow him on twitter.

    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1RisoztTd

  12. #112
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I read one possibility of how they might do the draft (can't remember where) is to take the team records over the last 3 years and do it that way. The Raptors still wouldn't get the first pick, but I believe they'd be in the top 5, again.
    They could pick at 5 and as low as 7

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    Default Draft 2012 talk

    yes I know its early and alot of things could happen including the strike the would affect the overall position of the Raptors in the draft order but if we already have a thread on Perry Jones why not this?!

    I still think that the goal of the draft is to select Harrison Barnes. Man can you imagine the starting line up coming 2012?

    Calderon/Bayless - Derozan - Barnes - E.Davis/Bargs - JV/Amir

  14. #114
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    Andre Drummond is the kind of athletic big that comes around every once in awhile. He likely will not go to college and go directly from prep school to the NBA. If the Raptors had a chance to draft him I hope they wouldn't pass on him.

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    ummm, remember how they changed the rules so you can't pick kids out of high school anymore? Amir Johnson was the last person to be pick straight out of high school. Unless there's been a rule change I don't know about?
    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee

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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    ummm, remember how they changed the rules so you can't pick kids out of high school anymore? Amir Johnson was the last person to be pick straight out of high school. Unless there's been a rule change I don't know about?
    The rule was, and is, until a new agreement that you must be 1 year removed from your graduating high school class, so if a player graduates this year and decides to play an extra year of prep school instead of one year of college they can be eligible for the draft.

    That being said, the 2012 draft looks like a good one and we should have a decent pick regardless of whether there is a season or not, any pick in the top 7 should give us a legit player to continue the build with.

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    1st tier
    Andre Drummond, Barnes, Miller or Gilchirist

    2nd tier
    Anthony Davis, McAdoo, M.Teague, or K.Middleton

    3rd tier
    Jeremy Lamb, Brad Beal, Myck Kabongo or T.Jones

    Say No To
    Perry Jones, Jared Sullinger, and CJ Leslie

  18. #118
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    1st tier
    Andre Drummond, Barnes, Miller or Gilchirist

    2nd tier
    Anthony Davis, McAdoo, M.Teague, or K.Middleton

    3rd tier
    Jeremy Lamb, Brad Beal, Myck Kabongo or T.Jones

    Say No To
    Perry Jones, Jared Sullinger, and CJ Leslie
    Anthony Davis HAS to be included in any of the Top Tier Prospects this year.

    No way I put Miller ahead of Davis.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. That’s nice." Terrence Ross

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    Are you serious, Anthony Davis looks like a tweener, I see him as a poor man's Chris Bosh. Quincy Miller on the other hand is suitable to play SF, he has all the guard skills and with his personality, he will bring a lot more excitement on and off the court.

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    James McAdoo has to be top tier as well. He's got a nice post game and will be a presence on the defensive end.

    And I don't even think Jeremy Lamb is going to be a lottery pick.

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