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Thread: 2012 Draft Thursday, June 28th: Raptors select Terence Ross

  1. #1841
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    It's funny what six months can do. If something would of said that Barnes would be are worse case scenario ppl would be going crazy.
    I would be happy take him if we slide to 6,7 or 8. I rather him over Drummond.

  2. #1842
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    PJ3 will rise in workouts. 6'11 dribbling through cones like a guard, make every open jumper and than throwing it down while his heads at the rim. Seriously you telling GMs wont fall in love with that?


    sorry just got hypnotized by the potential
    I agree that PJ3 is likely to rise somewhat, as long as he doesn't come across like a zombie during interviews, etc.

    The same will hold true for Drummond though, and I think he will be very impressive. I still think that Colangelo will actually thing for some time if both Barnes and Drummond are on the board when the Raptors pick, and AD, MKG and BB are gone.

  3. #1843
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Yup, I'm starting to come to terms with the idea that we fall out of the top 5....meaning the last 5 months have been a complete waste of time.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #1844
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    He is still better than most starting SG's in the NBA. A lot of people want OJ Mayo but i think he is a downgrade from demar he has only scored 20 points 4 times this season and he isn't a great defender and he also gives up 3 inches in height.
    I would take Mayo over DeRozan in a heartbeat. I wouldn't hesitate for a second.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #1845
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    Can someone with ESPN insider post the mock draft from there? They have Barnes as 8 in the top 10 as well.

  6. #1846
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Griner from Baylor.

  7. #1847
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote koncept wrote: View Post
    Can someone with ESPN insider post the mock draft from there? They have Barnes as 8 in the top 10 as well.
    i can't find the one you're talking about, mind linking to it and i'll post it?
    @jerboat

  8. #1848
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yup, I'm starting to come to terms with the idea that we fall out of the top 5....meaning the last 5 months have been a complete waste of time.
    Given the last 11 years of history, a bottom 3 finish is nothing to get excited about in hopes of a top 3 pick:

    Year
    bottom 3 teams in order of finish
    top 5 picks in the draft


    2001
    CHI, GSW, WSH
    WSH, LAC, ATL

    2002
    CHI & GSW (tie), MEM
    HOU, CHI, GSW

    2003
    CLE & DEN (tie), TOR
    CLE, DET, DEN

    2004
    ORL, CHI, WSH
    ORL, CHA (expansion), CHI

    2005
    ATL, NOH, CHA
    MIL, ATL, UTA

    2006
    POR, NYK, ATL
    TOR, CHI, CHA

    2007
    MEM, BOS, MIL
    POR, SEA, ATL

    2008
    MIA, SEA, MEM
    CHI, MIA, MIN

    2009
    SAC, WSH & LAC (tie)
    LAC, MEM, OKC

    2010
    NJ, MIN, SAC
    WSH, PHI, NJ

    2011
    MIN, CLE, TOR
    CLE (from LAC), MIN, UTA


    I know what the 'odds' in the draft are but over the last 11 drafts, the 'odds' favour teams outside the bottom three ending up in the top 3 for the draft.

    Of the 33 teams who 'should' have picked in the top 3, only 11 did in the last 11 years.

    If you take away 2002, 2003, and 2004 then of the 24 teams who should have picked in the top 3, only 5 did in the remaining 8 drafts.

    So what is my point? I can't wait until May 30th.



    With regards to the Raptors, I don't mind them winning games right now if they could win convincingly over a sh!t team like Charlotte. Seriously, that was some of the worst NBA ball I have ever seen.

  9. #1849
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I would take Mayo over DeRozan in a heartbeat. I wouldn't hesitate for a second.
    why?

  10. #1850
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I would take Mayo over DeRozan in a heartbeat. I wouldn't hesitate for a second.
    Compare their second season stats. They are almost exactly the same and demar is 2 years younger and plays 3 mins less each game. Also Mayo lost his starting job to tony allen. DeRozan has much more upside

  11. #1851
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Given the last 11 years of history, a bottom 3 finish is nothing to get excited about in hopes of a top 3 pick:

    Year
    bottom 3 teams in order of finish
    top 5 picks in the draft


    2001
    CHI, GSW, WSH
    WSH, LAC, ATL

    2002
    CHI & GSW (tie), MEM
    HOU, CHI, GSW

    2003
    CLE & DEN (tie), TOR
    CLE, DET, DEN

    2004
    ORL, CHI, WSH
    ORL, CHA (expansion), CHI

    2005
    ATL, NOH, CHA
    MIL, ATL, UTA

    2006
    POR, NYK, ATL
    TOR, CHI, CHA

    2007
    MEM, BOS, MIL
    POR, SEA, ATL

    2008
    MIA, SEA, MEM
    CHI, MIA, MIN

    2009
    SAC, WSH & LAC (tie)
    LAC, MEM, OKC

    2010
    NJ, MIN, SAC
    WSH, PHI, NJ

    2011
    MIN, CLE, TOR
    CLE (from LAC), MIN, UTA


    I know what the 'odds' in the draft are but over the last 11 drafts, the 'odds' favour teams outside the bottom three ending up in the top 3 for the draft.

    Of the 33 teams who 'should' have picked in the top 3, only 11 did in the last 11 years.

    If you take away 2002, 2003, and 2004 then of the 24 teams who should have picked in the top 3, only 5 did in the remaining 8 drafts.

    So what is my point? I can't wait until May 30th.



    With regards to the Raptors, I don't mind them winning games right now if they could win convincingly over a sh!t team like Charlotte. Seriously, that was some of the worst NBA ball I have ever seen.
    I second the motion to move the calendar forward to May 30th.

    I still think the Raptors finish no worse than 5th in the lottery standings. We are in a group that has 2 more wins than Cleveland (currently 4th worst), but Cleveland would have played 4 less games than us (assuming we lose tonight against Philly). I think it will come down to Toronto, New Jersey and Sacramento fighting for #5-7.

  12. #1852
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    why?
    In a nutshell, Mayo is quicker, has deeper range, and can create his own shot with ease. The latter is the most important aspect (IMO) of wing play at the NBA level.

    Anytime DeRozan gets the ball and he doesn't shoot, the possession is basically killed. He usually has no choice but to give up the ball, and pray that Calderon has enough time to run a last-second PNR.

    Considering ball-handling (and iso-moves) are usually skills learned as a toddler, I'm not going to hold out hope that DeRozan develops them in his 4th season.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #1853
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    if you watched the game last night DeRozan can score when he wants to and he's starting to realize that. He doesn't have an fancy dribbles moves but he can score and get to the line. After last nights game i even heard Dwane Casey call him a "young star"

  14. #1854
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    I agree that PJ3 is likely to rise somewhat, as long as he doesn't come across like a zombie during interviews, etc.

    The same will hold true for Drummond though, and I think he will be very impressive. I still think that Colangelo will actually thing for some time if both Barnes and Drummond are on the board when the Raptors pick, and AD, MKG and BB are gone.
    Drummond will be #2 pick. His floor is the 5th pick

    I could she BryCo thinking hard over Harrison Barnes and Pj3
    @Chr1st1anL

  15. #1855
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    if you watched the game last night DeRozan can score when he wants to and he's starting to realize that. He doesn't have an fancy dribbles moves but he can score and get to the line. After last nights game i even heard Dwane Casey call him a "young star"
    I did watch last night's game (versus the worst team in the universe), but I've also watched DeRozan's previous 210 games, which paints a pretty accurate picture of what he can, and cannot do.

    When was the last time we saw DeRozan break his man off the dribble on an wing isolation play? I'm going to say never.

    To get his looks, DeRozan needs to come off screens, or be on the fastbreak.

    The only successfull shooting guard without 1-on-1 skills I can remember is Richard Hamilton (who was much better at moving off the ball, and was a much more consistent shooter).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #1856
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Compare their second season stats. They are almost exactly the same and demar is 2 years younger and plays 3 mins less each game. Also Mayo lost his starting job to tony allen. DeRozan has much more upside
    First, I would take Mayo for DeRozan straight-up and be giddy about it the whole time! Second, Mayo didn't really lose his starting job, they wanted to have a defensive stopper in the starting unit and provide more balanced scoring (Gay, Gasol and Randolph already score on the 1st unit). Mayo is their super 6th man and is averaging just 0.1 less MPG than Allen.

    More importantly, Mayo does everything well that we all wish DeRozan would do better and more consistently - scoring (both driving and much better 3pt shooting), defense and all around play (ie: rebounds, assists and steals). Mayo also has the ability to takeover any given game and be his team's go to guy, whereas DeRozan seems to shy away from that role more often than not. Mayo has that 'killer instinct' look in his eyes, whereas DeRozan has earned the nickname 'bambi' for the look that seems to be in his eyes more often than not.

    Pure stats comparison (looking at career and this season):
    Shooting: both players are in the 40-45% range shooting from the floor
    3pt Shooting: Mayo is in the 35-40% range, DeRozan is in the 20-25% range (under 20% career)
    Rebounds: both players average 3+ RPG
    Assists: Mayo averages around 2.5 APG, DeRozan averages around 1.5 APG

    Mayo is also less than 2 years older than DeRozan, so age/development/ceiling isn't really an issue for consideration.

  17. #1857
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    First, I would take Mayo for DeRozan straight-up and be giddy about it the whole time! Second, Mayo didn't really lose his starting job, they wanted to have a defensive stopper in the starting unit and provide more balanced scoring (Gay, Gasol and Randolph already score on the 1st unit). Mayo is their super 6th man and is averaging just 0.1 less MPG than Allen.

    More importantly, Mayo does everything well that we all wish DeRozan would do better and more consistently - scoring (both driving and much better 3pt shooting), defense and all around play (ie: rebounds, assists and steals). Mayo also has the ability to takeover any given game and be his team's go to guy, whereas DeRozan seems to shy away from that role more often than not. Mayo has that 'killer instinct' look in his eyes, whereas DeRozan has earned the nickname 'bambi' for the look that seems to be in his eyes more often than not.

    Pure stats comparison:
    Shooting: both players are in the 40-45% range shooting from the floor
    3pt Shooting: Mayo is in the 35-40% range, DeRozan is in the 20-25% range (under 20% career)
    Rebounds: both players average 3+ RPG
    Assists: Mayo averages around 2.5 APG, DeRozan averages around 1.5 APG

    Mayo is also less than 2 years older than DeRozan, so age/development/ceiling isn't really an issue for consideration.
    mayo is 24 demar is 22 i'd say thats 2 years

  18. #1858
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    mayo is 24 demar is 22 i'd say thats 2 years
    Mayo is November 87, DeRozan is August 89. Less than 2 full years is all I meant, as opposed to closer to 3 years. I was just pointing out that it's not as though we're comparing a 27 year old with a 22 year old.

  19. #1859
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    mayo is 24 demar is 22 i'd say thats 2 years
    Considering Mayo should have a good 6+ years left in his career (sparing injuries), the 2 year age difference is insignificant.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #1860
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Props man you need to sit this one out

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