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Thread: Sebastian Pruiti: "Jonas Valanciunas & Andrea Bargnani Can Work Defensively"

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Liston's Avatar
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    Default Sebastian Pruiti: "Jonas Valanciunas & Andrea Bargnani Can Work Defensively"

    From ESPN TrueHoop Affiliate NBA Playbook:
    While Valanciunas is staying overseas for one more season, the Raptorsí front office and new coaching staff have big expectations for him on the defensive end. While doing my player comparisons for Basketball Prospectus, Kevin Peltonís player similarity scores showed us that Valanciunas compared most closely to Tyson Chandler. Funny enough, the man who just coached Chandler and will be coaching Valanciunas in the future saw the same things...
    Despite the reputation Bargnani has for being soft and a terrible defensive player, I think the combination of Valanciunas and Bargnani can work on the defensive end. While Raptor fans are probably rolling their eyes at me, because both Valanciunas and Bargnani have strengths and weaknesses right now defensively. Luckily for them, their strengths compliment each other well, and they should be able to hide each otherís weaknesses.
    Luckily for Bargnani and the Raptors, Jonas Valanciunasí biggest strength right now is his help defense/being that last line of defense, blocking and bothering shots, but never really getting too far away from his man and being in position to defend him as well:

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    You take Bargnani out of the title and we're then making some sense. JV isn't going to be good enough right out of the gate to compensate for Bargnani's deficiencies.

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    Interesting read, although part of me is skeptical despite being a big fan of Pruiti's work.

    I think it's a stretch at this point to say that these two would complement one another defensively, considering one will be a 20 year old rookie with no NBA experience and in need of some physical development and the other will be half way through his second deal while never showing a semblance of competency in that area. There's also the chance that they never end up playing on the same team whatsoever.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Saying JV and AB would complement each other on defense is like saying your new leather couch and that ugly looking lavender colored sofa you got talked into buying, which can't be returned because you lost the receipt, complement each other in your living room. Time to toss the sofa to the curb. Go to Wal-Mart and get something cheap if you must to tie you over until you find the right piece.

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    I don't think Bargs really compliments anything on defense
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I don't think Bargs really compliments anything on defense
    That's not true. He complements the other team perfectly.

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    Jonas Valanciunas & Ed Davis can work defensively.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Saying JV and AB would complement each other on defense is like saying your new leather couch and that ugly looking lavender colored sofa you got talked into buying, which can't be returned because you lost the receipt, complement each other in your living room. Time to toss the sofa to the curb. Go to Wal-Mart and get something cheap if you must to tie you over until you find the right piece.
    I disagree completely. Walmart is an awful organization and buying ANYTHING at Walmart not only is a vote for them to continue their business practices, but also Walmart products are generally cheaply made and of poor quality because it's the only way they can get the prices low enough to sell them at Walmart.
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    You ignored the positive blurbs Pruiti mentioned about Andrea, in that he IS a good one-on-one straight up post defender. With stats to back it up.

    "In the 205 times he was posted up last season Bargnani held his opponent to just 182 points (0.888 PPP) on just 46.8% shooting." Considering guys who play in the post typically shoot anywhere from 50-58 percent, that's actually decent.

    Bargs has taken on guys like Duncan, Howard, and Shaq, and not been as embarrassing as everyone likes to claim. He uses his length adequately enough. It's no secret he's not good at helping, but he's not exactly Yi's chair at the draft combine, either, on Man situations.

    This is all basically moot anyway because when Jonas comes over, with Ed and Amir, I don't see Bargs being kept here anyway.
    Last edited by Boomer; Tue Jun 28th, 2011 at 11:25 AM.

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    Could they work together defensively? Maybe. Is Bargs a good defensive compliment to Val? Absolutley not. If Bargs can become a decent man and pick and roll defender then him and Val could work as a defensive unit: if Val works out as a great help defender then a scheme could be devised where he shouldered the bulk of the help responsibilities and Bargs became more of a situational help guy and focused mostly on man D. A player that complimented Val would not need to have a system designed to limit his invovment.
    Another elite help defender who had a good understanding of how to cover for Val when he hedged out hard (like Chandler does) would be perfect. In fact, the more I think on it the more I like an Ed Davis and Val combo, defensively. Those two could potentially be one of the best front courts in the league at cutting off opposing guards and blocking shots. The offense would need to be redesigned, and a guard type player like DD would have to shoulder the majority of the offense but I could see that front court being good.
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    Quote Boomer wrote: View Post
    You ignored the positive blurbs Pruiti mentioned about Andrea, in that he IS a good one-on-one straight up post defender. With stats to back it up.

    "In the 205 times he was posted up last season Bargnani held his opponent to just 182 points (0.888 PPP) on just 46.8% shooting."

    Bargs has taken on guys like Duncan, Howard, and Shaq, and not been as embarrassing as everyone likes to claim. He uses his length adequately enough. It's no secret he's not good at helping, but he's not exactly Yi's chair at the draft combine, either, on Man situations.

    This is all basically moot anyway because when Jonas comes over, with Ed and Amir, I don't see Bargs being kept here anyway.
    Bargs is a good low post defender against guys like Duncan or Shaq who can't beat him with speed. He has developped the excellent habit of almost never jumping when defending in the post and since he is a big long guy it really makes it tough for opposing low post players to rip him up. The place where the man D argument falls apart is against faster more explosive power forwards like Demarcus Aldrige and Amare Stoudemire. This is actually why many question him playing the four, he doesn't seem to have the lateral quicks to keep up with some of the smaller fours on defense.
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    A player that complimented Val would not need to have a system designed to limit his invovment.
    Another elite help defender who had a good understanding of how to cover for Val when he hedged out hard (like Chandler does) would be perfect. In fact, the more I think on it the more I like an Ed Davis and Val combo, defensively. Those two could potentially be one of the best front courts in the league at cutting off opposing guards and blocking shots.
    This is a nice summary of those two. I think that a big man rotation of Val, Ed, and Amir, would do us quite well defensively, and decent enough offensively, to build around for a few years. I'm probably a bigger fan of Bargs than most people, but I will readily admit that the guys we've brought in the last couple years have been brought in to cover for, and eventually replace him.
    I don't see him being around much longer, regardless of his improvement (or lack thereof). I'd be happy with Ed Amir and JV as long as JV pans out alright.

    Wouldn't it be terrible if in three years we're having the same talks but with JV instead of Bargs' name? Ugh.

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    Quote Boomer wrote: View Post
    .
    Wouldn't it be terrible if in three years we're having the same talks but with JV instead of Bargs' name? Ugh.
    If we can take a good defensive player like Val and turn him into a sweet shooting non defender like Bargs I think I will give up on the Raptors. I mean just thinking about it makes me angry.
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    Who knows how good Val will be on defence? However, even if he is no better than Andrea, the added rebounding and presence in the post is a benefit on to itself. There are 30 teams, and only one Noah, one Chandler. To expect such success is unrealistic, but you certainly will not find prize #3 if you do not try to get your hands on these prospects.


    Also keep in mind, that our team is partially constructed to make up for Andrea's deficiencies. This means, a guy like Amir gets starting time due to his aggressiveness on the boards, James Johnson is a good fit because he too crashes the glass. So even if Val is just average on defence, our team is kind tweaked for that deficiency anyway.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Tue Jun 28th, 2011 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I disagree completely. Walmart is an awful organization and buying ANYTHING at Walmart not only is a vote for them to continue their business practices, but also Walmart products are generally cheaply made and of poor quality because it's the only way they can get the prices low enough to sell them at Walmart.
    Sorry to break the news but free agency is more than likely going to look like Wal-Mart to the Raptors this off-season.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Sorry to break the news but free agency is more than likely going to look like Wal-Mart to the Raptors this off-season.
    That's true, but only if the Raptors acquire Yao Ming, or Yi Jianlian

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    Quote Boomer wrote: View Post
    You ignored the positive blurbs Pruiti mentioned about Andrea, in that he IS a good one-on-one straight up post defender. With stats to back it up.
    Actually, the stats don't back up that he's a good one on one defender. As has been mentioned, he's decent against certain types of players, but overall, he's not a good one on one defender. I wish this myth would die because it's simply not true.
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Sorry to break the news but free agency is more than likely going to look like Wal-Mart to the Raptors this off-season.
    I prefer they shop at Value Village, for this free agency. They still get what they need, temporarily, but it doesn't feed the big, bad machine.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I disagree completely. Walmart is an awful organization and buying ANYTHING at Walmart not only is a vote for them to continue their business practices, but also Walmart products are generally cheaply made and of poor quality because it's the only way they can get the prices low enough to sell them at Walmart.
    Nobody questions his 1-on-1 game defensively, but he's not playing 1-on-1, he's playing a team game and he's terrible when it come to help defense.

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    Quote matt wrote: View Post
    Nobody questions his 1-on-1 game defensively, but he's not playing 1-on-1, he's playing a team game and he's terrible when it come to help defense.
    I think you may have quote the wrong comment, but I think a lot of people question his man to man defense. The thing is that people remember the good games he has, which are actually few and far between, and don't seem to remember that the vast majority of the games he actually struggled trying to contain his own man.
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