View Poll Results: Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

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  • Yes, most definitely in Raptors' best interests.

    11 25.00%
  • Yes, but I would rather them play.

    16 36.36%
  • No, most definitely not in best interests of Raptors

    12 27.27%
  • I don't know.

    5 11.36%
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Thread: Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

    *This thread will be moved to Lockout and Raptors in a day or two*

    This is total subjective speculation on my part so please take it for what it is worth. With that said....

    Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

    From the no side, NO because:

    1) our young players are not getting an opportunity to continue to develop against NBA game competition,
    2) the team is not developing chemistry,
    3) I am a huge fan and want to see games.
    4) the Raptors might get knocked down in whatever lottery system is developed to replace the regular season.

    From the yes side, YES because:

    1) JV will be in Europe playing next season anyways,
    2) the Raptors will most likely get another high draft pick in a stacked draft,
    3) they will have more financial flexibility regardless of the new CBA,
    4) the longer the lockout the greater the odds of the Raptors not getting Boshed or Cartered in the future,
    5) It will give players an opportunity to focus on their fundamental skills (for example, shooting for DeMar) and physical development (for example, increase build for ED).

    If you have any other arguments for or against, add them below.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Against:

    - It prevents the Raptors from making trades and improve on their long term's rebuilding process. Who knows what kind of offers they are currently missing out due to the lockout that could have unknown ramifications especially when you can shad a big contract and thus leave room for someone else to come in.

    - They have a new coach that needs to implement a new system in place in training camp and as a result that's down the tube as well.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Against:

    - It prevents the Raptors from making trades and improve on their long term's rebuilding process. Who knows what kind of offers they are currently missing out due to the lockout that could have unknown ramifications especially when you can shad a big contract and thus leave room for someone else to come in.

    - They have a new coach that needs to implement a new system in place in training camp and as a result that's down the tube as well.
    I'm sure those same trade opportunities will be available when this is over. Players are not going to be able to increase or decrease their value based on on-court play.

    In terms of the Raptors best interest, I was envisioning a situation such as this:

    JV comes over next year after one more year in Europe,
    Trade Bargnani to LAL (Messina can back up his tough talk against Colangelo/JT and Bynum is a good compliment for Bargnani) for Odom and a 1st or 2nd round pick next year or Darius Morris.
    Re-sign Barbosa to a smaller contract.
    Throw big money at Chandler.
    Draft a SF who has more SG qualities than PF (Barnes, Miller) and potential all-star talent.
    Add their 2nd round draft pick
    Hope DD, ED, Amir, JJ, Bayless work their @sses off during the layoffr.

    With 10 players already under contract, all of a sudden you have a young team with solid veterans in Barbosa/Odom/Chandler who can still very much contribute.

    PG: Bayless, Calderon, Raps own 2012 2nd round draft pick
    SG: DD, Barbosa
    SF: Odom, Miller/Barnes, JJ
    PF: ED, Amir
    C: Chandler, JV, Alabi

    The Raptors would realistically be a playoff team on paper and have a young core in place moving forward who are able to get experience while winning (Portland) versus experience sucking (Sacramento/Minnesota/Clippers). JV would need a few seasons to legitimately become a starter and learning behind Chandler wouldn't be a bad thing - remember he is only 20 next season. If the Raps own draft pick (Miller? Barnes?) was a legit talent, Odom has been very successful coming off the bench and if the Raptors were winning I do not think it would be too much of an issue.

    Anyways, there are a ridiculous amount of hypotheticals in the above. The players suggested are just that - suggestions. My only hope was to offer some insight in to what I considered a situation where the NBA season is lost and it works out to be in the Raptors long term best interests. If something like the above played out, I would not mind at all and the lost season might be worth the wait.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    I don't think I can take anymore hockey talk than we already have on all of our radio and television channels, so please come back NBA(and NFL for that matter)! I can't fathom listening to anymore "should we keep fighting in the game" or "these concussions are out of control, we should do something about these head shots" bullshit arguments I already hear on a daily basis.

    But I wouldn't mind fast forwarding this season to see who we get in the draft next year and have another year under the belts of our young players.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic All-Star RaptorsFan4Life's Avatar
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    "No, most definitely not in best interests of Raptors"

    Missing a year in a team in the development stage is never a good thing.

  6. #6
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    I don't think I can take anymore hockey talk
    Just be thankful you didn't live in Vancouver this spring. It was excruciating.
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  7. #7
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    Another in the 'plus' category: it hurts a lot of other teams more than it hurts us. Particularly those who have big contracts to players on the down-side of their prime. Look at Paul Pierce for example. It's not like he's going to come back and look like an old man. But it the whole season is wiped out, all contracts will be pushed one year, meaning that over the life of his contract, Boston is losing one season of 34-year-old Pierce, and gaining one year of 38-year-old Pierce. Atlanta trades a season of 30-year-old Johnson for a season of 35-year-old Johnson. Miami is losing a year of 30-year-old Wade, and gaining a year of 35-year-old Wade. These are effects that teams won't be feeling next year, but will be feeling 4 or 5 years down the road.

  8. #8
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    I think the development and trade issues are moot, mostly because every team is in the same boat. The advantage the Raptors have, in the development area, is that the majority of the roster are self starters, like DeRozan, who will no doubt constantly be working out and working on their game. It's especially advantageous when it comes to the European contingent, especially Valanciunas. While other rookies will not be playing organized ball much, Valanciunas should get a step up over them if the season is cancelled.

    As for trades, as I said, everyone is in the same boat. And any trades the Raptors want to do will be available to do after the lockout.

    For me, whether or not it's advantageous in the long run depends entirely on how the next draft is done if the season is cancelled and whether or not they get a top 3 pick. I think a lot of their future hinges on who they get in 2012, so if they don't get a high pick due to the lockout, then it's obviously a bad thing. If they get a high pick, then it might even be a good thing.
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  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    I am in the YES column more so because I agree that a structural change of the rules governing how the league is run is required. Personally, a pox on both their houses but a hard cap is needed to somewhat even the playing field for every team when it comes to acquisition of or loss of free agents and make it more about how a franchise is managed. A big issue when/if this is achieved is what happens to the oodles of xtra cash that the LA's and NY's and Boston's etc do in terms of profit sharing with the lessers in their lodge, the players in lieu of the hard cap and the forgotten fans with a lower priced ticket.

    A bit pie-in-the-sky I realize but these morons (especially the mega clubs) need to take a broader view of the league's popularity while sharing more equitably the wealth (like the NFL does "somewhat") and permits that any team which is managed properly can succeed without competing individual agendas always coming into play. To abscribe fully, absolute freedoms of worker movement and capitalistic business principles in what is a highly structured environment such as a professional sports league is in my view unsustainable. Some sacrifices have to be made by all parties. So far it seems to me that the paying customer has been bearing the brunt. I know that I as a fan have been priced out of the live attendance....at least for the decent seat.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Obviously an advantage to all young teams, and a disadvantage to the Celtics, Mavs, Spurs, and all the teams that depend on an older group of players. I think missing a season for them is a lot more costly then it could be for ours. Mavs could win an nba championship if they stuck around for next season, but 2 seasons from now? JayKidd will be like 40 i think o.o

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Obviously an advantage to all young teams, and a disadvantage to the Celtics, Mavs, Spurs, and all the teams that depend on an older group of players. I think missing a season for them is a lot more costly then it could be for ours. Mavs could win an nba championship if they stuck around for next season, but 2 seasons from now? JayKidd will be like 40 i think o.o
    Great point.
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  12. #12
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    I don't see how JV playing in Europe is a reason for the pro-lockout side. He was going to play there for the year, season or not, so I think that point is more neutral if anything. As for the question, I don't think it's in the Raps best interest long term, since I think we could tank for a top 3 pick next year if there is a season versus dropping in some lottery system.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Ice_man wrote: View Post
    I don't see how JV playing in Europe is a reason for the pro-lockout side. He was going to play there for the year, season or not, so I think that point is more neutral if anything. As for the question, I don't think it's in the Raps best interest long term, since I think we could tank for a top 3 pick next year if there is a season versus dropping in some lottery system.
    Fair enough.... however many of the detractors of picking JV said having him miss an NBA season was inexcusable on BC's part; tanking (intentionally losing) is hardly a way to build a culture of winning and does not ensure success; and the possibility of dropping in some lottery system is real - as is the possibility of moving up.

    All points you made are valid I'm just playing devil's advocate.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    My friend and I were talking about this on the way to buffalo this morning. He feels it would be bad and hurt the development of the young guys whereas I felt it might actually be advantageous with more or less the same reasons matt had.

    If we somehow went from a top 5 pick to mid-late lottery it automatically changes to bad for the team though.
    @jerboat

  15. #15
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Fair enough.... however many of the detractors of picking JV said having him miss an NBA season was inexcusable on BC's part; tanking (intentionally losing) is hardly a way to build a culture of winning and does not ensure success; and the possibility of dropping in some lottery system is real - as is the possibility of moving up.

    All points you made are valid I'm just playing devil's advocate.
    When we drafted JV, I was actually hoping that he would stay in Europe for a year. The reason being is that I don't think he has the size to bang with the bigs in the NBA right now, and if he were to come over immediately he would constantly be in foul trouble due to his aggressive playstyle (like Amir used to be) and constantly be nailed to the bench, which doesn't help his development nor does it help the team. But with a year in Europe, he has time to add some muscle to his frame in preparation for the NBA, as well as get lots of playing time to develop his offensive game. Sure he's not developing with our coaches or building chemistry with our young team, but I think that's a fair tradeoff if he comes in a better rounded player in his first year.

    Now as for the tanking argument, I believe that if your team isn't located in a hotspot city for free agents, tanking is the fastest way to accumulate talent/assets and build a winner (not a treadmill team like we've had in the past), no matter how painful it is for the fanbase to go through. Obviously the current example of this is Oklahoma City, who were terrible for a while and had lots of high picks, but now everybody raves about them being on the verge of greatness. We haven't been very good for a few years now, so I hope there is a shortened season next year so we can tank again for a high pick in next year's loaded draft, bring in that lotto pick along with JV, and start winning some games.

  16. #16
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I really hope the season isn't lost but I've already come to terms with it. I love football so I'll get my Sunday sports fix there and I'm going to be busy with my baby, who's expected to arrive in late November. So, you know, I was probably not going to have much time in the evenings to watch games anyway this winter. The lockout lines up really well for me. That's my interest.

    Now, as for the Raptors interest? Of course it's to their benefit... IF the Owners win the battle. A hard cap would level the playing field a lot. I know some vet players will give some big market teams sweetheart deals but for the most part things will be more fair. When the Knicks sucked for that decade they had a hard time luring people in. Big markets can struggle to lure talent too when they're not run properly. So, when teams like the Lakers and Mavs make mistakes in the future they won't be able to eat a contract, go well over cap and continue to add talent via the MLE. Mistakes will hurt more in the new system... Unless the owners manage to abolish guaranteed contracts as well. Another score for a team with a GM who likes to take big gambles.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    you're going to be amazed how little time you have for anything you used to be into
    @jerboat

  18. #18
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    Quote Ice_man wrote: View Post
    I don't see how JV playing in Europe is a reason for the pro-lockout side. He was going to play there for the year, season or not, so I think that point is more neutral if anything. As for the question, I don't think it's in the Raps best interest long term, since I think we could tank for a top 3 pick next year if there is a season versus dropping in some lottery system.
    It's pro-lockout because most of the rest of the rookies don't have that advantage. If the Raptors had taken, say, Brandon Knight, he would have been basically left to fend for himself and the onus would be on him to find ways to improve his game. Valanciunas is going to get good coaching and play regularly in games against decent competition. Everyone was worried about Kanter not playing competitively for a year. Well, most of the rookies are going to be in the same boat if the season is cancelled. But not Valanciunas.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I really hope the season isn't lost but I've already come to terms with it. I love football so I'll get my Sunday sports fix there and I'm going to be busy with my baby, who's expected to arrive in late November. So, you know, I was probably not going to have much time in the evenings to watch games anyway this winter. The lockout lines up really well for me. That's my interest.

    Now, as for the Raptors interest? Of course it's to their benefit... IF the Owners win the battle. A hard cap would level the playing field a lot. I know some vet players will give some big market teams sweetheart deals but for the most part things will be more fair. When the Knicks sucked for that decade they had a hard time luring people in. Big markets can struggle to lure talent too when they're not run properly. So, when teams like the Lakers and Mavs make mistakes in the future they won't be able to eat a contract, go well over cap and continue to add talent via the MLE. Mistakes will hurt more in the new system... Unless the owners manage to abolish guaranteed contracts as well. Another score for a team with a GM who likes to take big gambles.
    Congratulations on the baby

  20. #20
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    I don't think it is. I really think DeMar and Davis need to play together and get used to playing in Casey's defensive system. Also, Casey could be a really good coach, but he definitely won't start winning in the next few years. His contract isn't very long, and with the lockout he won't have much time to prove himself, and if he doesn't he probably will get sacked.

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