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Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

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  • #16
    I really hope the season isn't lost but I've already come to terms with it. I love football so I'll get my Sunday sports fix there and I'm going to be busy with my baby, who's expected to arrive in late November. So, you know, I was probably not going to have much time in the evenings to watch games anyway this winter. The lockout lines up really well for me. That's my interest.

    Now, as for the Raptors interest? Of course it's to their benefit... IF the Owners win the battle. A hard cap would level the playing field a lot. I know some vet players will give some big market teams sweetheart deals but for the most part things will be more fair. When the Knicks sucked for that decade they had a hard time luring people in. Big markets can struggle to lure talent too when they're not run properly. So, when teams like the Lakers and Mavs make mistakes in the future they won't be able to eat a contract, go well over cap and continue to add talent via the MLE. Mistakes will hurt more in the new system... Unless the owners manage to abolish guaranteed contracts as well. Another score for a team with a GM who likes to take big gambles.

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    • #17
      you're going to be amazed how little time you have for anything you used to be into
      @sweatpantsjer

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      • #18
        Ice_man wrote: View Post
        I don't see how JV playing in Europe is a reason for the pro-lockout side. He was going to play there for the year, season or not, so I think that point is more neutral if anything. As for the question, I don't think it's in the Raps best interest long term, since I think we could tank for a top 3 pick next year if there is a season versus dropping in some lottery system.
        It's pro-lockout because most of the rest of the rookies don't have that advantage. If the Raptors had taken, say, Brandon Knight, he would have been basically left to fend for himself and the onus would be on him to find ways to improve his game. Valanciunas is going to get good coaching and play regularly in games against decent competition. Everyone was worried about Kanter not playing competitively for a year. Well, most of the rookies are going to be in the same boat if the season is cancelled. But not Valanciunas.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #19
          Apollo wrote: View Post
          I really hope the season isn't lost but I've already come to terms with it. I love football so I'll get my Sunday sports fix there and I'm going to be busy with my baby, who's expected to arrive in late November. So, you know, I was probably not going to have much time in the evenings to watch games anyway this winter. The lockout lines up really well for me. That's my interest.

          Now, as for the Raptors interest? Of course it's to their benefit... IF the Owners win the battle. A hard cap would level the playing field a lot. I know some vet players will give some big market teams sweetheart deals but for the most part things will be more fair. When the Knicks sucked for that decade they had a hard time luring people in. Big markets can struggle to lure talent too when they're not run properly. So, when teams like the Lakers and Mavs make mistakes in the future they won't be able to eat a contract, go well over cap and continue to add talent via the MLE. Mistakes will hurt more in the new system... Unless the owners manage to abolish guaranteed contracts as well. Another score for a team with a GM who likes to take big gambles.
          Congratulations on the baby

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          • #20
            I don't think it is. I really think DeMar and Davis need to play together and get used to playing in Casey's defensive system. Also, Casey could be a really good coach, but he definitely won't start winning in the next few years. His contract isn't very long, and with the lockout he won't have much time to prove himself, and if he doesn't he probably will get sacked.

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            • #21
              I agree that teams like the Celtics and the Spurs will suffer most from a lost season considering that the cores of their teams are all getting up there ain age nd their windows for championship contention were probably narrowed down to next season. Interestingly enough, these teams are also the ones who stand to benefit the most from a shortened season. Both Boston and San Antonio seemed to run out of gas after dominant starts in their respective conferences, so shortening the regular season by ~30 games or so may very well align them to go into the playoffs with a full head of steam.

              That being said, I think the Raptors stand to suffer as well. There's a big portion of their roster - DeRozan, Bayless, A. Johnson, Ed Davis, J. Johnson, Weems, Alabi - who are still in a position where they need as many reps as possible against NBA competition. I understand that a lot of these guys are "self starters" who will put in a lot of work on their own during the lockout, but will it measure up to the benefits achieved if they were playing 82 games against the best players in the world? I don't think so.
              Last edited by Fully; Mon Jul 4, 2011, 08:47 AM.

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              • #22
                Also, I think the ultimate winners/losers of a full season lost will be undecided until we know the ramifications of the new CBA. We could end up with a new deal that would greatly benefit a franchise like the Raptors, regardless of how many games of experience the young guys lose out on.

                On the other side of the coin, teams like Chicago or Miami - franchises that look like they don't have as much to lose as others from a lockout - could find themselves in a tough situation depending on how the CBA shakes out since their roster make-up has numerous guys making near max money.

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                • #23
                  I'm not sure this lockout helps the Raps much.

                  1) lost season for the young guys playing together. Other young teams feel this same pain, but with the Raps being one of the youngest and less experienced teams... it makes it a bit worse.

                  2) any of the older teams whose window closes will inevitably get worse. Any and every team getting worse adds more competition to the Raps getting the pick the want (need).

                  3) if the season is lost and some NHL fashion lottery is added, the chances of the Raps getting a better lottery pick diminishes. (will be more equal competition for the high picks, while if the Raps are terrible.... as expected.... they have a greater chance at that high pick).

                  Now thats on a short term level.

                  Long term... anything that balances the playing field vs. the major markets will almost definetely help the Raps. The question is how much. I'm just not convinced it will be as much as fans would hope. If a players sole concern is the $ of their guaranteed contract (assuming guaranteed contracts remain ofcourse) then yes it will. Any player that is interested in alternate income streams, more attention, not wanting to leave America etc (and yes lots of them exist regardless of how much people don't want to believe it) may be hard pressed chosing Toronto over another team.

                  Regardless it should be better for the league as a whole... until ofcourse the union and owners fuck it up again.

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                  • #24
                    Fully wrote: View Post
                    Also, I think the ultimate winners/losers of a full season lost will be undecided until we know the ramifications of the new CBA. We could end up with a new deal that would greatly benefit a franchise like the Raptors, regardless of how many games of experience the young guys lose out on.

                    On the other side of the coin, teams like Chicago or Miami - franchises that look like they don't have as much to lose as others from a lockout - could find themselves in a tough situation depending on how the CBA shakes out since their roster make-up has numerous guys making near max money.
                    Thats very true.. but I imagine that if there is some reduction in salary cap (or a hard cap), there will also be a corresponding reduction in salaries in some fashion. Something like a franchise tag on a player (ie. and that salary doesn't count towards the cap), a straight reduction in salaries (like the NHL did), or being able to eliminate a contract entirely from the books.

                    I just don't see the Owners being willing to sign a deal that will immediately handcuff a good portion of the teams (especially the big market teams)

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                    • #25
                      GarbageTime wrote: View Post
                      Thats very true.. but I imagine that if there is some reduction in salary cap (or a hard cap), there will also be a corresponding reduction in salaries in some fashion. Something like a franchise tag on a player (ie. and that salary doesn't count towards the cap), a straight reduction in salaries (like the NHL did), or being able to eliminate a contract entirely from the books.

                      I just don't see the Owners being willing to sign a deal that will immediately handcuff a good portion of the teams (especially the big market teams)
                      You're right. It will be much more complicated than simply putting in a hard cap and handcuffing any franchise that currently sits over it. But even if there are salary scalebacks, franchise tags, etc., the teams that are the most top heavy in terms of salaries stand to lose the most going forward. I'm also looking at things a little more long term than the next 2-3 years. If the end result is a true "leveling of the field" in the league, then the teams that will benefit the most will be the Milwaukees, the Toronto's, the Sacramento's - teams that have to settle for level B free agents and usually end up overpaying just to get them.

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                      • #26
                        One advantage for the Raps and a couple other teams who have injured guys is that they have more time to rehab. Amir had surgery at the end of last season, Barbosa was having a lot of issues, and the often forgotten and maligned Kleiza will not be back to playing shape till Christmas. Kleiza will be a nice piece for us to have in Val's first season since they are both Lithuanian and it might help Val adjust. I also think Kleiza hasn't had his fair shot yet because of the injury which was reportedly effecting his play all year. Article on that below which I found interesting.

                        http://www.talkbasket.net/news/the-t...jury-4058.html
                        "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                        -Churchill

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                        • #27
                          hateslosing wrote: View Post
                          One advantage for the Raps and a couple other teams who have injured guys is that they have more time to rehab. Amir had surgery at the end of last season, Barbosa was having a lot of issues, and the often forgotten and maligned Kleiza will not be back to playing shape till Christmas. Kleiza will be a nice piece for us to have in Val's first season since they are both Lithuanian and it might help Val adjust. I also think Kleiza hasn't had his fair shot yet because of the injury which was reportedly effecting his play all year. Article on that below which I found interesting.

                          http://www.talkbasket.net/news/the-t...jury-4058.html
                          The article is certainly one-sided, no?

                          It lost all credibility here:

                          Another European player who was despotised by the NBA franchise was Turkish star Hedo Turkoglu.
                          When all those Greek reports came out, Kleiza publicly denied the stories. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic.

                          Here is the thread when this came out: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...=kleiza+injury

                          Here is the denial from Kleiza:

                          Toronto forward Linas Kleiza on Saturday denied a Greek report that claimed he believes incompetence by Raptors medical officials contributed to why he last Wednesday underwent season-ending right microfracture knee surgery.

                          "I have no problems with Toronto's medical staff,'' Kleiza said in a phone interview with FanHouse from Vail, Colo., where he has remained since the surgery was performed by specialist Dr. Richard Steadman.

                          The report was by Sport25.gr, a Greek website in the nation where Kleiza played for Olympiakos for the 2009-10 season. Translated by TalkBasket.net, the report read in part that Kleiza "had been complaining to the Raptors' medical team for the past two months about excruciating pain in his right knee'' and that "the team's doctors ignored his pleas and insisted that it was nothing to worry about.''

                          The report read, "After having had just enough of his team medical team's criminal neglect, Kleiza made up his mind and told Raptors that he refused to play until the pain is completely gone.''

                          "I don't know where that came from,'' said Kleiza, who added that he didn't know about the report until being informed by FanHouse. "I haven't talked to anybody from Greece. ... I think everything was done (in an acceptable manner by Toronto's medical staff). I was talking to them all the time (about the knee injury).''

                          Kleiza said he originally hurt his right knee in the team's Oct. 6 preseason opener against Phoenix in Vancouver when a player fell on him. He said he doesn't know which player it was. Kleiza scored a game-high 20 points that night, and initially didn't think the injury was serious.

                          Kleiza played in 38 of Toronto's first 40 games. But then he said his knee started really bothering him in mid-January.

                          Kleiza sat out games Jan. 17 and Jan. 19 and returned Jan. 21 at Orlando, playing 23 minutes. But he said the knee then continued to hamper him and he hasn't played since.

                          Kleiza said he visited Steadman a few weeks ago for an initial consultation. He returned last week to Colorado, and it was decided to do the surgery.

                          "He's the best,'' Kleiza said of Dr. Steadman, who has worked on the knees of many NBA players, including having twice performed surgery on Denver forward Kenyon Martin, Kleiza's teammate with the Nuggets from 2005-09. "Everything went well. I feel good about it. It's going to take some time but I'll come back 100 percent.''

                          Kleiza said he could be ready for next season's opener.

                          "I believe the minimum (recovery) could be nine months,'' said Kleiza, who averaged 11.2 points in 39 Toronto games. "You don't know what is going to happen with the lockout (that could delay the start of 2011-12), but I believe I have a shot of playing at the start of next season (even if there's no lockout).''

                          Kleiza said he will return to Toronto early next week. He can't put pressure on his knee for eight weeks, and then will begin rehabilitation.

                          Kleiza signed a four-year, $18.8 million contract offer sheet with the Raptors last summer as a restricted free agent after playing his one season in Greece. The Nuggets opted not to match.

                          "Of course, it's good to have security,'' Kleiza said when asked if he feels relieved now he signed that NBA contract last summer rather than having picked up an option to play another season in Greece. "But that's life (getting injured). Injuries happen. All I can do is rehab and try to get better.''

                          As he prepares to begin that process, Kleiza insists all is fine with Toronto's medical staff.

                          http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/05/in...e-by-torontos/
                          Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Jul 4, 2011, 11:21 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            The article is certainly one-sided, no?

                            It lost all credibility here:



                            When all those Greek reports came out, Kleiza publicly denied the stories. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic.

                            Here is the thread when this came out: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...=kleiza+injury

                            Here is the denial from Kleiza:
                            That article came out at the beginning of May, although it's apparent they haven't retracted it. I added a comment on the site linking to the article you found.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                            Follow me on Twitter.

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                            • #29
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              The article is certainly one-sided, no?

                              It lost all credibility here:



                              When all those Greek reports came out, Kleiza publicly denied the stories. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic.

                              Here is the thread when this came out: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...=kleiza+injury

                              Here is the denial from Kleiza:
                              Definately one sided, I just thought it was an interesting take on Toronto's treatment of Euro's. You usually hear things about how Toronto is such a good destination for Euro's and reading an article where they basically bash the franchises treatment of foreign players was different. Thanks for posting Kleiza's response, I hadn't seen that before.
                              "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                              -Churchill

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                              • #30
                                hateslosing wrote: View Post
                                Definately one sided, I just thought it was an interesting take on Toronto's treatment of Euro's. You usually hear things about how Toronto is such a good destination for Euro's and reading an article where they basically bash the franchises treatment of foreign players was different. Thanks for posting Kleiza's response, I hadn't seen that before.
                                I see where you're coming from now. Good point.

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