View Poll Results: Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

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  • Yes, most definitely in Raptors' best interests.

    11 25.00%
  • Yes, but I would rather them play.

    16 36.36%
  • No, most definitely not in best interests of Raptors

    12 27.27%
  • I don't know.

    5 11.36%
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Thread: Could a lost season be in the Raptors best interests long term?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I agree that teams like the Celtics and the Spurs will suffer most from a lost season considering that the cores of their teams are all getting up there ain age nd their windows for championship contention were probably narrowed down to next season. Interestingly enough, these teams are also the ones who stand to benefit the most from a shortened season. Both Boston and San Antonio seemed to run out of gas after dominant starts in their respective conferences, so shortening the regular season by ~30 games or so may very well align them to go into the playoffs with a full head of steam.

    That being said, I think the Raptors stand to suffer as well. There's a big portion of their roster - DeRozan, Bayless, A. Johnson, Ed Davis, J. Johnson, Weems, Alabi - who are still in a position where they need as many reps as possible against NBA competition. I understand that a lot of these guys are "self starters" who will put in a lot of work on their own during the lockout, but will it measure up to the benefits achieved if they were playing 82 games against the best players in the world? I don't think so.
    Last edited by Fully; Mon Jul 4th, 2011 at 08:47 AM.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Also, I think the ultimate winners/losers of a full season lost will be undecided until we know the ramifications of the new CBA. We could end up with a new deal that would greatly benefit a franchise like the Raptors, regardless of how many games of experience the young guys lose out on.

    On the other side of the coin, teams like Chicago or Miami - franchises that look like they don't have as much to lose as others from a lockout - could find themselves in a tough situation depending on how the CBA shakes out since their roster make-up has numerous guys making near max money.

  3. #23
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    I'm not sure this lockout helps the Raps much.

    1) lost season for the young guys playing together. Other young teams feel this same pain, but with the Raps being one of the youngest and less experienced teams... it makes it a bit worse.

    2) any of the older teams whose window closes will inevitably get worse. Any and every team getting worse adds more competition to the Raps getting the pick the want (need).

    3) if the season is lost and some NHL fashion lottery is added, the chances of the Raps getting a better lottery pick diminishes. (will be more equal competition for the high picks, while if the Raps are terrible.... as expected.... they have a greater chance at that high pick).

    Now thats on a short term level.

    Long term... anything that balances the playing field vs. the major markets will almost definetely help the Raps. The question is how much. I'm just not convinced it will be as much as fans would hope. If a players sole concern is the $ of their guaranteed contract (assuming guaranteed contracts remain ofcourse) then yes it will. Any player that is interested in alternate income streams, more attention, not wanting to leave America etc (and yes lots of them exist regardless of how much people don't want to believe it) may be hard pressed chosing Toronto over another team.

    Regardless it should be better for the league as a whole... until ofcourse the union and owners fuck it up again.

  4. #24
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Also, I think the ultimate winners/losers of a full season lost will be undecided until we know the ramifications of the new CBA. We could end up with a new deal that would greatly benefit a franchise like the Raptors, regardless of how many games of experience the young guys lose out on.

    On the other side of the coin, teams like Chicago or Miami - franchises that look like they don't have as much to lose as others from a lockout - could find themselves in a tough situation depending on how the CBA shakes out since their roster make-up has numerous guys making near max money.
    Thats very true.. but I imagine that if there is some reduction in salary cap (or a hard cap), there will also be a corresponding reduction in salaries in some fashion. Something like a franchise tag on a player (ie. and that salary doesn't count towards the cap), a straight reduction in salaries (like the NHL did), or being able to eliminate a contract entirely from the books.

    I just don't see the Owners being willing to sign a deal that will immediately handcuff a good portion of the teams (especially the big market teams)

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Thats very true.. but I imagine that if there is some reduction in salary cap (or a hard cap), there will also be a corresponding reduction in salaries in some fashion. Something like a franchise tag on a player (ie. and that salary doesn't count towards the cap), a straight reduction in salaries (like the NHL did), or being able to eliminate a contract entirely from the books.

    I just don't see the Owners being willing to sign a deal that will immediately handcuff a good portion of the teams (especially the big market teams)
    You're right. It will be much more complicated than simply putting in a hard cap and handcuffing any franchise that currently sits over it. But even if there are salary scalebacks, franchise tags, etc., the teams that are the most top heavy in terms of salaries stand to lose the most going forward. I'm also looking at things a little more long term than the next 2-3 years. If the end result is a true "leveling of the field" in the league, then the teams that will benefit the most will be the Milwaukees, the Toronto's, the Sacramento's - teams that have to settle for level B free agents and usually end up overpaying just to get them.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    One advantage for the Raps and a couple other teams who have injured guys is that they have more time to rehab. Amir had surgery at the end of last season, Barbosa was having a lot of issues, and the often forgotten and maligned Kleiza will not be back to playing shape till Christmas. Kleiza will be a nice piece for us to have in Val's first season since they are both Lithuanian and it might help Val adjust. I also think Kleiza hasn't had his fair shot yet because of the injury which was reportedly effecting his play all year. Article on that below which I found interesting.

    http://www.talkbasket.net/news/the-t...jury-4058.html
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  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    One advantage for the Raps and a couple other teams who have injured guys is that they have more time to rehab. Amir had surgery at the end of last season, Barbosa was having a lot of issues, and the often forgotten and maligned Kleiza will not be back to playing shape till Christmas. Kleiza will be a nice piece for us to have in Val's first season since they are both Lithuanian and it might help Val adjust. I also think Kleiza hasn't had his fair shot yet because of the injury which was reportedly effecting his play all year. Article on that below which I found interesting.

    http://www.talkbasket.net/news/the-t...jury-4058.html
    The article is certainly one-sided, no?

    It lost all credibility here:

    Another European player who was despotised by the NBA franchise was Turkish star Hedo Turkoglu.
    When all those Greek reports came out, Kleiza publicly denied the stories. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic.

    Here is the thread when this came out: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...=kleiza+injury

    Here is the denial from Kleiza:

    Toronto forward Linas Kleiza on Saturday denied a Greek report that claimed he believes incompetence by Raptors medical officials contributed to why he last Wednesday underwent season-ending right microfracture knee surgery.

    "I have no problems with Toronto's medical staff,'' Kleiza said in a phone interview with FanHouse from Vail, Colo., where he has remained since the surgery was performed by specialist Dr. Richard Steadman.

    The report was by Sport25.gr, a Greek website in the nation where Kleiza played for Olympiakos for the 2009-10 season. Translated by TalkBasket.net, the report read in part that Kleiza "had been complaining to the Raptors' medical team for the past two months about excruciating pain in his right knee'' and that "the team's doctors ignored his pleas and insisted that it was nothing to worry about.''

    The report read, "After having had just enough of his team medical team's criminal neglect, Kleiza made up his mind and told Raptors that he refused to play until the pain is completely gone.''

    "I don't know where that came from,'' said Kleiza, who added that he didn't know about the report until being informed by FanHouse. "I haven't talked to anybody from Greece. ... I think everything was done (in an acceptable manner by Toronto's medical staff). I was talking to them all the time (about the knee injury).''

    Kleiza said he originally hurt his right knee in the team's Oct. 6 preseason opener against Phoenix in Vancouver when a player fell on him. He said he doesn't know which player it was. Kleiza scored a game-high 20 points that night, and initially didn't think the injury was serious.

    Kleiza played in 38 of Toronto's first 40 games. But then he said his knee started really bothering him in mid-January.

    Kleiza sat out games Jan. 17 and Jan. 19 and returned Jan. 21 at Orlando, playing 23 minutes. But he said the knee then continued to hamper him and he hasn't played since.

    Kleiza said he visited Steadman a few weeks ago for an initial consultation. He returned last week to Colorado, and it was decided to do the surgery.

    "He's the best,'' Kleiza said of Dr. Steadman, who has worked on the knees of many NBA players, including having twice performed surgery on Denver forward Kenyon Martin, Kleiza's teammate with the Nuggets from 2005-09. "Everything went well. I feel good about it. It's going to take some time but I'll come back 100 percent.''

    Kleiza said he could be ready for next season's opener.

    "I believe the minimum (recovery) could be nine months,'' said Kleiza, who averaged 11.2 points in 39 Toronto games. "You don't know what is going to happen with the lockout (that could delay the start of 2011-12), but I believe I have a shot of playing at the start of next season (even if there's no lockout).''

    Kleiza said he will return to Toronto early next week. He can't put pressure on his knee for eight weeks, and then will begin rehabilitation.

    Kleiza signed a four-year, $18.8 million contract offer sheet with the Raptors last summer as a restricted free agent after playing his one season in Greece. The Nuggets opted not to match.

    "Of course, it's good to have security,'' Kleiza said when asked if he feels relieved now he signed that NBA contract last summer rather than having picked up an option to play another season in Greece. "But that's life (getting injured). Injuries happen. All I can do is rehab and try to get better.''

    As he prepares to begin that process, Kleiza insists all is fine with Toronto's medical staff.

    http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/05/in...e-by-torontos/
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Jul 4th, 2011 at 11:21 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The article is certainly one-sided, no?

    It lost all credibility here:



    When all those Greek reports came out, Kleiza publicly denied the stories. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic.

    Here is the thread when this came out: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...=kleiza+injury

    Here is the denial from Kleiza:
    That article came out at the beginning of May, although it's apparent they haven't retracted it. I added a comment on the site linking to the article you found.
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  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The article is certainly one-sided, no?

    It lost all credibility here:



    When all those Greek reports came out, Kleiza publicly denied the stories. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic.

    Here is the thread when this came out: http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...=kleiza+injury

    Here is the denial from Kleiza:
    Definately one sided, I just thought it was an interesting take on Toronto's treatment of Euro's. You usually hear things about how Toronto is such a good destination for Euro's and reading an article where they basically bash the franchises treatment of foreign players was different. Thanks for posting Kleiza's response, I hadn't seen that before.
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  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Definately one sided, I just thought it was an interesting take on Toronto's treatment of Euro's. You usually hear things about how Toronto is such a good destination for Euro's and reading an article where they basically bash the franchises treatment of foreign players was different. Thanks for posting Kleiza's response, I hadn't seen that before.
    I see where you're coming from now. Good point.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie huskies2raps's Avatar
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    I don't think I can take anymore hockey talk than we already have on all of our radio and television channels, so please come back NBA(and NFL for that matter)! I can't fathom listening to anymore "should we keep fighting in the game" or "these concussions are out of control, we should do something about these head shots" bullshit arguments I already hear on a daily basis.

    But I wouldn't mind fast forwarding this season to see who we get in the draft next year and have another year under the belts of our young players.
    amen brother......amen - I wish we could get ESPN in Canada - so sick of TSN and Sportsnet giving 55 minutes to hockey and 2 to basketball (obviously I'm overstating, but you get the point) - thank goodness for The Score - give them lots of credit; their coverage of not just Raptors but the NBA overall has been great over the past few years, and they've stuck with the model of "every other network will play out hours on end of hockey, so we'll give fans of everything else some good coverage" oh and NBA TV Canada doesn't hurt to have either, but still, would love to see ESPN offered in Canada, although it will probably never happen
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  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    If we did in fact get the third overall pick it's hard to say a lockout would be the worst thing. That's a sure shot at a potential all-star potential player, whereas the team could overachieve under Casey and get the eight seed (not impossible) and end up with a good player, but no difference maker.

    It pains me to say this when I love basketball so much and the idea of a lockout because billionaires want more money is infuriating.
    @jerboat

  13. #33
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    It really is impossible for the players to win this. Yeah, Lebron is a big star and has a trillion dollars to sit on for the rest of his life, but all the other kids coming through the system with no skills other than basketball aren't hoping for careers at Subway. At some point, the players union is going to have to ask itself if it only represents established stars or the entirety of its constituents. A lot of ooooooooold vets chasing rings aren't getting younger, but anyway, I'm not sure how long it would take for the players to realize that time and money is on the side of the owners. Luckily for us, because a hard cap is looking like a faster route to parity than sucking every year and hoping we score big in the draft. So yes, the lockout will be beneficial to us, and it hinges on the hard cap. I guess the players get screwed...

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    *Bump*

    What are you thinking now?

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    idk i would enjoy watching the young players develop into stars. Bayless, DeMar and Ed stepping it up, we would have a better understanding on which players we should keep. And i really want to see what DeMar can do, see if he can shift gears and make that push to be an all star player.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Starter WhatWhat's Avatar
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    I think that it hurts us, but not that much. Individually speaking, it hurts Bayless the most by a pretty large margin. He's got the skills, he needs the actually playing time and experience to develop his PG skills and have the game slow down for him. But if he's the real thing AND the season gets cancelled then we could sign our future PG for a really, really cheap contract.

    DD et al will work hard. I'm pretty worried about Davis though, this picture is supposedly a few weeks old:

  17. #37
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    A little off topic, but I will never understand the desire to permanently mark up one's body like that.
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  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    That just looks like crap!

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote WhatWhat wrote: View Post
    DD et al will work hard. I'm pretty worried about Davis though, this picture is supposedly a few weeks old:
    what bothers me, is that despite his NBA paycheques, he's still getting tattoos that are lower quality than prison tats.

    i'm not against tattoos at all... i have a few... but im totally against UGLY.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    He should visit solarium to hide those ugly tattoos, especially that vomit like tat on his belly.

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