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Thread: Has Bautista's All-Star Success Proved Bosh's US Exposure Claims to be false?

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    Default Has Bautista's All-Star Success Proved Bosh's US Exposure Claims to be false?

    A constant anxiety among TO fans has been the perception that we're always flying under the radar. This past week, our city's current highest profile athlete not only was tops in All star votes, but also garnered the most votes EVER in the history of voting. That's pretty big (though the internet does have a hand in the volume of votes). Does his outcome make Bosh's previous comments seem even sillier or is it like comparing apples and oranges between the two sports?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    good first post
    @jerboat

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    @ ceez
    thanks man

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote Dalex wrote: View Post
    @ ceez
    thanks man
    for future ref., you can hit the "reply with quote" button, it saves you from having to write some of the quirky names here and it also saves you from having to log in and then having to hit "post reply".

    to your point, bautista is like vince carter was where he's playing like an mvp and carter was dunking on the entire world where bautista is hitting dingers left and right.

    Bosh just failed to realize that he is not a good enough player to garner that attention and his best year he was putting up 20 and 10, only problem was so we're have the guys at his positions.

    not to rip on the guy, but, a jump shooting pf isn't exactly as exciting as a home run king or a masterful dunker and people have finally come to realize that.

    most people figured he was just underrated because nobody payed attention to toronto, but, now in miami they realize it wasn't the team, it was the player all along.

    so, i don't think bautista's all star success proves bosh's theory wrong because i don't think it was a theory, and bosh certainly isn't going to prove that it is playing behing lbj and wade and getting two dunks a game acting like it's the best dunk anyone has ever seen every time.
    Last edited by LBF; Tue Jul 5th, 2011 at 01:55 PM.
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    I understand what your saying and I agree about Bosh's comments being inaccurate. If he was a good enough player he would have been noticed here, and he when he played well he was noticed. People have said for most of his career that he is a top Pf in the game. It does not matter if he played for toronto or for Miami, he still is the same player. I think he thinks that he is better than people said he was, and blamed it on being in Toronto.

    However, I do think that comparisons are between two differnt sports has to be considered. I do not watch baseball (I jsut heard about Bautista's success from a co-worker yesterday) so I cant say why the comparisons could be innacurrate, but I do believe that there are some differnces.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Yes. The reality is Bosh was not a top tier NBA talent - a good one, yes, but top tier, no.

    Carter was one of the most hyped NBA players in his Toronto days - he received plenty of US attention.

    For the players saying you can't make it big in Toronto all it means is they aren't a good enough player to win as the centre piece or a marketable enough player to garner the attention they feel they deserve.

    I agree with ceez and welcome Dalex.

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    I hope bosh gets traded to Siberia
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I wonder if it has more to do with the position he played than anything else. Aren't guards and wings that dunk and hit the big shot considered sexy (ie VC)? Sure if Blake Griffin played for the Raptors he'd be on all the hilight reels on ESPN, but would Tim Duncan have made those hilight reels with his more traditional game?

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I wonder if it has more to do with the position he played than anything else. Aren't guards and wings that dunk and hit the big shot considered sexy (ie VC)? Sure if Blake Griffin played for the Raptors he'd be on all the hilight reels on ESPN, but would Tim Duncan have made those hilight reels with his more traditional game?
    Tim Duncan made his name with rings not pizzaz, Hakeem, Dwight, Shaq are all marketable names as bigs. A main reason for that is not their market, but the fact they play deep in the playoffs when everyone is watching

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Agrippa wrote: View Post
    Tim Duncan made his name with rings not pizzaz, Hakeem, Dwight, Shaq are all marketable names as bigs. A main reason for that is not their market, but the fact they play deep in the playoffs when everyone is watching
    Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.
    With Duncan it all comes down to winning. Even with all the rings he has I bet he's sold a lot less jerseys than some of the more "exciting" high flyers that never won anything. .

    He's prob the best PF ever, but for a typical non-hardcore NBA fan he's pretty boring to watch.
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.
    He would have got more exposure than Bosh did purely because he is better, and the team would have won more games. However, San Antonio gets more coverage because they are always good, and they've become the cliche well run small market team(Thunder encroaching on them). With those likeable high character guys that Apollo talked about. But Duncan is a two time MVP and who knows what would have went down had a guy like him played for the Raptors. So maybe San Antonio gets more coverage off prestige alone, but they earned that. Its got nothing to do with Canada or the USA. Its a franchise to franchise distinction, and a player to player distinction.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptoronto's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Yeah, Timmy D. is on another level as a player, but I thought the question had more to do with playing for an American market vs. Canadian. Production of either player aside, would Duncan have gotten the media coverage if played in Toronto? And since I'm speaking hypothetically lets just say that he played with the team mates that Bosh did and wins didn't come so easy.
    Duncan is the reason the Spurs have been so consistently good. He makes it very easy to fit players around him (makes management and coaches look good) as he does everything well and makes everyone so much better. He's also a leader who doesn't waiver on expectation...every game is a game to be won and everyone needs to be on board. When he retires the Spurs will go right back on the treadmill and people will wonder what happen to the Spurs magical ability to pick up useful scraps.

    If he was with the Raptors the personnel would have been selected differently and with Duncan's attitude, he simply wouldn't have cared about the attention (by choice he has very few sponsors and he avoids the media). In the end I have no doubt he would be just as well recognized and respected as he is now. Now if he played with a high-profile/big basketball market he would be in constant discussions as one of top 5 greatest players ever (Russell type mystic) IMO.
    Last edited by Raptoronto; Tue Jul 5th, 2011 at 02:48 PM.

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    If Bosh led the league in scoring like Bautista does with home runs, he would have gotten his due as well. Bosh overestimates his own marketability without realizing that the market/media isn't undervaluing or ignoring him, they're giving him the same amount of pub that is deserved of a player of his caliber. When Bosh was in Toronto, I'd say he got more pub than someone like David West, and those two are pretty much on par, I'd even say West is better.

    Vince Carter led the league in All-Star votes by a distance while in Toronto, Roy Halladay was recognized every start on ESPN and so on. It's what you do, not where you play.

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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    If Bosh led the league in scoring like Bautista does with home runs, he would have gotten his due as well. Bosh overestimates his own marketability without realizing that the market/media isn't undervaluing or ignoring him, they're giving him the same amount of pub that is deserved of a player of his caliber. When Bosh was in Toronto, I'd say he got more pub than someone like David West, and those two are pretty much on par, I'd even say West is better.

    Vince Carter led the league in All-Star votes by a distance while in Toronto, Roy Halladay was recognized every start on ESPN and so on. It's what you do, not where you play.
    Thank you very much for including Roy Holliday in your post. I was about to do the same when I read yours. You are right. It is how you play not where you play. And also, he could have owned the Canadian Advertisements and be treated like royalty if he had stayed and played in Canada. Guess the grass might be greener on the other side but the water bill to keep that grass greener is more expensive. Great reply!

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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    If Bosh led the league in scoring like Bautista does with home runs, he would have gotten his due as well. Bosh overestimates his own marketability without realizing that the market/media isn't undervaluing or ignoring him, they're giving him the same amount of pub that is deserved of a player of his caliber. When Bosh was in Toronto, I'd say he got more pub than someone like David West, and those two are pretty much on par, I'd even say West is better.

    Vince Carter led the league in All-Star votes by a distance while in Toronto, Roy Halladay was recognized every start on ESPN and so on. It's what you do, not where you play.
    I think that we as fans wanted to believe that Bosh was a franchise player and he was not. I don't think we have given him any credit for realizing this fact himself. He has chosen to try and get his attention on the backs of his teammates instead of on his own. He looked like he finally understood after the final game of the series that no matter how he is rolling on the court, he is not going to get touches unlike here when every play ran through him.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Yeah. Bosh just wasn't good enough to carry the team. Perhaps its not fair to him, but hes the one saying the city can't get superstars. We haven't had one since Vince and that was relatively short lived.

    Bautista on the other hand is a superstar. He's a threat to score literally every time he's on the plate. I was at the game on saturday when Halladay pitched (god i love that man and hope he wins a world series soon) and when he took one deep no one was surprised. We cheered but no one was surprised. Superstars do that. Bosh quit and joined up with 2 so he could win, it was apparently the only way he knew how.
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Dalex wrote: View Post
    A constant anxiety among TO fans has been the perception that we're always flying under the radar. This past week, our city's current highest profile athlete not only was tops in All star votes, but also garnered the most votes EVER in the history of voting. That's pretty big (though the internet does have a hand in the volume of votes). Does his outcome make Bosh's previous comments seem even sillier or is it like comparing apples and oranges between the two sports?
    If it were not for Vince Carter (and now Bautista) I could easily say, yes, the Raptors unfairly never get US exposure. Unfortunately it's not that easy of a clear cut case. When Vince was here and the team was winning games the team made it on to US airwaves and Vince was getting voted into the starting lineup of All-Star games regularly. Bosh never got the exposure he craved from the US due to his own self and the lack of team success. Some US teams get some exposure no matter how they do but it's because they've earned it over time. For the most part if your team stinks, you don't get your games on National TV no matter where you rest your head at night. If the Raptors can build a winning team and maintain the success for more than a measly couple seasons then maybe major US networks will want to take a chance on picking up some Raptors games. Remember, at the end of the day those networks are about making money. They try to rotate successful teams that the nation as a whole will find interesting. Interesting teams draw viewers and viewers lead to major networks turning great profits. Again, the Vince Carter years proved that a good Raptors product leads to strong interest and attention stateside. It's on the management to get the right players to come here and then it's on those players to deliver. When that happens they will get US exposure and possibly attract those players craving the limelight. Personally, I want players here who care about winning rings and not about winning popularity contests. You get all that stuff anyway if you're successful leading a team on your own merit. I think the Raptors need to keep drafting well and provide more stability. It's hard to build a feeling of "family" when you have nine or ten new guys coming in every year. When the money is good and the team is heading in the right direction what young player is going to want to turn his back on "Family"?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    We're not talking about highlight reels we're talking about production and helping the team win. Blake does it, and yes the dunking over anyone and everyone helps. Duncan was universally praised by just about everyone for what he did. He may not have been on sportscenter ever but ive never heard anyone say a bad thing about him.

    He was also first team nba and defense for how many years?
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    We're not talking about highlight reels we're talking about production and helping the team win. Blake does it, and yes the dunking over anyone and everyone helps. Duncan was universally praised by just about everyone for what he did. He may not have been on sportscenter ever but ive never heard anyone say a bad thing about him.

    He was also first team nba and defense for how many years?
    My bad, I thought the question was related more to publicity than production.

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