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Thread: Has Bautista's All-Star Success Proved Bosh's US Exposure Claims to be false?

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I'm more than happy to agree to disagree with you on this one.

    Only Bautista knows how he became the most feared slugger since Barry Bonds
    -CBSSports.com
    He just broke an All-Star Game record that had stood for 17 years. Thats not just 'recognizing a good season'.
    Making the All Star is recognizing a good season, fine, I agree with that.
    Getting more votes than ANYONE ELSE IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL, is a bit more than that.

    And like I said, I believe its just your opinion to say that if "Jose isn't making Endorsement money, then he's not being Recognized".
    There are far more indications of ones Individual drawing power, than whether or not they are making Ads for Ford or Juicy Fruit.

    He is given a Standing Ovation at, more or less, EVERY away stadium they play at.
    The fans outside of Canada and Latin America are aware of what this guy is doing.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    It does not matter.

    When ever a player not good enough to make it to the All-Star game or win some sort of an award in either baseball or basketball, someone in the U.S is always going to go back and raise the issue of playing in Canada.

    I do recall Jim Rome asking Carlos Delgado whether he thought he was snubbed for the MVP award due to playing in Canada as a result of lack of exposure on U.S televison and Delgado said yes.

    When in doubt, always blame Canada and the uneducated masses (including professional athletes) will drink the koolaid.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    It does not matter.

    When ever a player not good enough to make it to the All-Star game or win some sort of an award in either baseball or basketball, someone in the U.S is always going to go back and raise the issue of playing in Canada.

    I do recall Jim Rome asking Carlos Delgado whether he thought he was snubbed for the MVP award due to playing in Canada as a result of lack of exposure on U.S televison and Delgado said yes.

    When in doubt, always blame Canada and the uneducated masses (including professional athletes) will drink the koolaid.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter Hassan's Avatar
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    bosh sucked so he didnt get recognized end of story , vince was a beast so he did

  5. #45
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    It does not matter.

    When ever a player not good enough to make it to the All-Star game or win some sort of an award in either baseball or basketball, someone in the U.S is always going to go back and raise the issue of playing in Canada.

    I do recall Jim Rome asking Carlos Delgado whether he thought he was snubbed for the MVP award due to playing in Canada as a result of lack of exposure on U.S televison and Delgado said yes.

    When in doubt, always blame Canada and the uneducated masses (including professional athletes) will drink the koolaid.
    I don't think its uneducated masses at all... I think there is truth to it. There have been no shortage of players in all sports not named hockey that have stated this.

    Matt52 pointed out an important part, if it leads to winning they will get noticed. Others have noted that if someone is above and beyond everyone else, they will get noticed. But what about those players players that are good, but maybe not 'great'?

    If you have 2 players that are roughly equal, on roughly equal teams, and one is in T.O and the other is in Sacramento... do people still really think the Toronto player will get more coverage? I guarantee they don't.

    People need to put into perspective how little Americans care about anything not American. Why do you think that fans (and media) in America expect the Raps to be one of the first teams to fold if there is contraction in the NBA? (regardless that they are one of the profitable teams and have a top half attendance record every season)... because they just don't care or pay attention to the Raps. Media companies know this, agents know this, companies selling their brand know this.... for some reason Toronto fans just don't want to believe it.

    I was reading a Piston's blog the other day and they were breaking down all the draft picks by all teams in the NBA and grading them. Except they only had 29 teams... guess who was missing.

    http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2011/6...a-draft-grades

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post

    I was reading a Piston's blog the other day and they were breaking down all the draft picks by all teams in the NBA and grading them. Except they only had 29 teams... guess who was missing.

    http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2011/6...a-draft-grades
    That's shocking actually... I didn't even see anyone mention it in the comments section!(The bunch I skimmed through anyways...)
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  7. #47
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Unless they JUST added it, I had no problem finding the B grade they gave the Raptors for the Valanciunas selection.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote Hassan wrote: View Post
    bosh sucked so he didnt get recognized end of story , vince was a beast so he did
    So he sucked to the tune on 4 consecutive all-star appearances as a Raptor? Really?

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    So he sucked to the tune on 4 consecutive all-star appearances as a Raptor? Really?
    It was supposed to be the end of the story, this line in not admissible!

    Still don't see where they gave the Raps a B in that link though...
    Keep Calm & Chive On

  10. #50
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    Quote Mack North wrote: View Post
    It was supposed to be the end of the story, this line in not admissible!

    Still don't see where they gave the Raps a B in that link though...
    I did find it after doing a (ctrl f) search... its lumped in with San Antonio

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Tim Duncan is even "growing old" gracefully, with class and inclusive of team needs. He has taken a lesser role offensively to concentrate on defense and also minutes played so Popovich can manage his longevity and the inevitable.

    This is a very good point. Tim Duncan, has never craved the attention that Bosh did. He was not making parodies on the internet. He is not the type of player that needed to be wined and dined, and I doubt he needed teams to go the extra mile for him. He is more than comfortable just playing team basketball and staying out of the spotlight.

    Bosh, was always comparing himself to his draft class. In his mind, Melo, Wade and James had it better than him, and to a degree he did not respect Toronto the way Toronto respected him.

    This is not a knock against Bosh, its just human nature to want what we do not have.


    Also as has been pointed out, winning is what made Duncan who he is. If his teams were mediocre, he would never draw the attention that he has. People would regard him on the level of a Jermaine Oneal (prime), maybe an Elton Brand. A player that is formidable, but not someone that you will trade half your team for to get on your roster.
    Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Wed Jul 6th, 2011 at 10:02 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    If Bosh led the league in scoring like Bautista does with home runs, he would have gotten his due as well. Bosh overestimates his own marketability without realizing that the market/media isn't undervaluing or ignoring him, they're giving him the same amount of pub that is deserved of a player of his caliber. When Bosh was in Toronto, I'd say he got more pub than someone like David West, and those two are pretty much on par, I'd even say West is better.

    Vince Carter led the league in All-Star votes by a distance while in Toronto, Roy Halladay was recognized every start on ESPN and so on. It's what you do, not where you play.
    I think that we as fans wanted to believe that Bosh was a franchise player and he was not. I don't think we have given him any credit for realizing this fact himself. He has chosen to try and get his attention on the backs of his teammates instead of on his own. He looked like he finally understood after the final game of the series that no matter how he is rolling on the court, he is not going to get touches unlike here when every play ran through him.

  13. #53
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Why do you expect most fans to think of Bosh any other way than a "franchise player" when he himself, right up until the end, was saying he was a franchise player and that he wanted to be "the man" on any team he played for. I've always thought of him as more fit to be a second star on a team because most top teams don't have their big man making the plays during clutch time while the Raptors have been running counter to that ever since Vince Carter left town.

    To bring this back to Toronto now, if Bargnani stays and is a focal point on offense and somehow Dwayne Casey cracks the code and wins a nobel prize for helping Bargnani discover defense and rebounding, they're still going to need a top flight wing who can break down defenses late in games and find ways to score when the opposing team is playing smothering playoff defense. That wing will get recognized at that point(DeRozan maybe). Bargnani would get recognized at that point. The whole team would get recognized at that point. When the Raptors surged back to the playoffs in 2008-2009 most American media wrote them off as overachieving flukes. If today they were still making the playoffs, that's five straight seasons, the fluke status would have been long lifted.
    Last edited by Apollo; Thu Jul 7th, 2011 at 01:02 PM. Reason: more to say...

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Why do you expect most fans to think of Bosh any other way than a "franchise player" when he himself, right up until the end, was saying he was a franchise player and that he wanted to be "the man" on any team he played for. I've always thought of him as more fit to be a second star on a team because most top teams don't have their big man making the plays during clutch time while the Raptors have been running counter to that ever since Vince Carter left town.

    To bring this back to Toronto now, if Bargnani stays and is a focal point on offense and somehow Dwayne Casey cracks the code and wins a nobel prize for helping Bargnani discover defense and rebounding, they're still going to need a top flight wing who can break down defenses late in games and find ways to score when the opposing team is playing smothering playoff defense. That wing will get recognized at that point(DeRozan maybe). Bargnani would get recognized at that point. The whole team would get recognized at that point. When the Raptors surged back to the playoffs in 2008-2009 most American media wrote them off as overachieving flukes. If today they were still making the playoffs, that's five straight seasons, the fluke status would have been long lifted.
    I agree, that was my point actually. I think Bosh finally can to terms with the fact that he is a second and not a first. I am not sure he is a third or forth option like he is currently in Miami, but that's their problem.

    As for Bargnani, I don't see him as our first option either, and think he becomes much more potent on the perimeter and not in the post. But to give him an ounce of credit, he can score the ball. I believe he was 16th in the league in points last year, which may be attributed more to a lack of scoring from other players, but he can shoot and he is reasonably quick for a 7' player. Let's hope that he can develop some help defense skills this off season.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie 10 000 Hours's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Why do you expect most fans to think of Bosh any other way than a "franchise player" when he himself, right up until the end, was saying he was a franchise player and that he wanted to be "the man" on any team he played for. I've always thought of him as more fit to be a second star on a team because most top teams don't have their big man making the plays during clutch time while the Raptors have been running counter to that ever since Vince Carter left town.

    To bring this back to Toronto now, if Bargnani stays and is a focal point on offense and somehow Dwayne Casey cracks the code and wins a nobel prize for helping Bargnani discover defense and rebounding, they're still going to need a top flight wing who can break down defenses late in games and find ways to score when the opposing team is playing smothering playoff defense. That wing will get recognized at that point(DeRozan maybe). Bargnani would get recognized at that point. The whole team would get recognized at that point. When the Raptors surged back to the playoffs in 2008-2009 most American media wrote them off as overachieving flukes. If today they were still making the playoffs, that's five straight seasons, the fluke status would have been long lifted.
    Couldn't agree more.

  17. #57
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    Come on. Everyone knew Bosh was not a franchise player. The only reason people started categorizing Bosh as a potential franchise player was because Carter left. I was 14 when they started hyping Bosh and even then I knew they were lying to my face.

  18. #58
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    When you get Big Papi calling you to play on his team you know you're good! Bosh moving to Miami only made him a tad more popular. Like people have said already it's not who you play for but what you do.

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    It's winning and performance that gets a player noticed by fans and the media and not where you play.

    Bosh will never play at an elite level and as result, he will not receive the noteriety he craves. He may ride on LeBron's and Wade's coat-tails and win a ring - but he will never be in the same conversation with those two legit stars.

    Back in the day when the Blue Jays were winning back-to-back championships - Toronto had no problem getting a ton of publicity and free agents flocked here.

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    Quote Krix wrote: View Post
    Come on. Everyone knew Bosh was not a franchise player. The only reason people started categorizing Bosh as a potential franchise player was because Carter left. I was 14 when they started hyping Bosh and even then I knew they were lying to my face.
    I'm not so sure about that. Some thought he wasn't a franchise player, sure. But there were alot that did (I'd wager the majority but their is hardly hard evidence for that).

    I remember having a lot of debates/disagreements with people who said Bosh was a franchise player and/or the best PF in the league (and getting called everything from racist to a moron for not believing or agreeing with them). A lot of people changed their tune when last year (especially last offseason) came around..... but prior to that, himself, the team and a huge contingent of fans thought he was.

    Its hardly anything new though... fans of all teams a tendency to overvalue their 'best' player. Danny Granger, Ben Gordon (in Chicago), Brook Lopez... etc. When these guys are young these guys can apparently only "get better"... reality is what they do, is probably pretty close to what they will always do. (I'm expecting John Wall to be the next on this list)

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