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Thread: Lets not get caught in the Jonas hype just yet.

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    why did utah pass on jonas? that is what I would like to know
    That is a good question.

    I know for months I wanted a C. At first I was Kanter, then switched to Jonas, then a couple of months before the draft switched back to Kanter.

    My reasoning was even though Kanter had not had much competition, he was still playing against good competition in Kentucky practice with a pretty good coach. Also he has an NBA-ready body and his skill-set would much better compliment that of Ed Davis.

    With that said, with Utah having made the decision between the two for us, Cleveland passing on JV, I am VERY happy with the pick - the U19 was just a little bit of immediate gratification.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    I think tristan is a better fit for cleveland, jonas and varjaeo play very much a like

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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    why did utah pass on jonas? that is what I would like to know
    The main reason, from what I gather, was they wanted someone who would help immediately, which Valanciunas obviously wouldn't in Europe. There was also some talked, although unsubstantiated, that Cleveland had a deal with Charlotte to take Valanciunas if they'd take Thompson, or something like that.
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    my expectations with this tournament (and the players who play in it) are hardly high. If it wasn't for it being mentioned in every other new thread I wouldn't even think twice about it.

    Thinking Jonas should be alot better than a bunch of nobodies shouldn't be setting the bar very high for him.
    A bunch of nobodies? I think you're undervaluing the talent in that tournament. There are a number of players in that tournament who will play in the NBA, including a few lottery picks. I don't think the NCAA Tournament talent is THAT much higher, quite frankly. This article details several of the prospects...
    http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/07/1...championships/

    As for it being mentioned in every other new thread, what the hell else is there to talk about basketball-wise? There's no NBA and no summer league. This is it. And the Raptors 5th pick happens to be playing very well in it.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    A bunch of nobodies? I think you're undervaluing the talent in that tournament. There are a number of players in that tournament who will play in the NBA, including a few lottery picks. I don't think the NCAA Tournament talent is THAT much higher, quite frankly. This article details several of the prospects...
    http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/07/1...championships/

    As for it being mentioned in every other new thread, what the hell else is there to talk about basketball-wise? There's no NBA and no summer league. This is it. And the Raptors 5th pick happens to be playing very well in it.
    Tim you and I know there are only a handful of these guys that will play in the NBA. There are a crap load that wouldn't make (let alone play) on an NCAA team. As far as I'm concerned they are, as a whole, a bunch of nobodies. If you want to believe they are/can be more be my guest... but then don't tell me I have high expectations.

    "what the hell else is there to talk about basketball-wise?"

    hardly supports how relevant this tournament is

    Look I'm not trying to knock Jonas or discredit him... its just a tournament like this should hardly be a challenge for him (and it doesn't really appear it was).

  6. #66
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    Almost every player in the U19 would make an NCAA team. Think about it. First of all, lots of NCAA teams don't make it into march madness. And even the ones that do, have lots of pretty lame role players and bench warmers. Think about Jimmer's teammates for a moment.

    Now, if you're talking about guys who could get scholarships to go to the states and play, fine. But that's different. Lots of people who will never get scholarships are good enough to play in the NCAA.

  7. #67
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    All of a sudden Lieuvos Rytas should be getting a lot of internet traffic from Toronto. The way I see it, if he played well against a US squad full of U19 stars and future NBA lotto picks (or something like that) then hes definitely on the right path. If he continues his development at this rate, he will definitely be beast mode when he gets to the NBA

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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Tim you and I know there are only a handful of these guys that will play in the NBA. There are a crap load that wouldn't make (let alone play) on an NCAA team. As far as I'm concerned they are, as a whole, a bunch of nobodies. If you want to believe they are/can be more be my guest... but then don't tell me I have high expectations.

    "what the hell else is there to talk about basketball-wise?"

    hardly supports how relevant this tournament is

    Look I'm not trying to knock Jonas or discredit him... its just a tournament like this should hardly be a challenge for him (and it doesn't really appear it was).
    I think you're either vastly underestimating the talent level of the tournament or vastly overestimating the talent level of the average NCAA team. I think a majority of guys on each team would make an NCAA team. These are some of the best 19 and under players in the world. Would they all make a team like Kentucky? No, but neither would most players on other NCAA rosters. It's not like most NCAA rosters have NBA bound players, either. Most don't.

    Now, I'm not suggesting the overall talent level is the same, but it's not nearly the difference that you make it out to be. Would Valanciunas be as dominant? Probably not, but it's a pretty good bet he'd be close.

    As for my comment that there isn't anything else to talk about, I wasn't referring as to whether it's relevant or not. You said "If it wasn't for it being mentioned in every other new thread I wouldn't even think twice about it. " I said that it was mentioned so much because there isn't anything else, basketball-wise, to talk about.

    No one thinks this tournament is proof he will be an All-Star in the NBA. I really don't think the majority of people here are overhyping his accomplishments there. It's extremely encouraging and a good indication that Valanciunas was a good player for the Raptors to choose. And that seems to be all people are saying.

    As to YOUR level of interest in the tournament, I don't think that's an indication of the level of play in the tournament. I think it's more of an indication of the average level of interest of any basketball that takes place outside of North America among most North Americans, excluding the Olympics.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    I am a true Raptor's fan, been a fan since their first game. As a fan I have a right to say what I like and what i don't like about certain topics.

    I never liked the word "us" I am just a fan like you, I am not part of the organisation because I don't work for the Raptors and I don't have a say in what they do therefore "us" does not apply.
    Agree. As far as I know, no one on this board is a member of the Raptors, so where does anyone get off saying "we?" The towel boy that works for free so they can see games can say "we" because he is part of the organization, but when you say it, it simply says "fanboy."

    Of course, nothing wrong with being a fanboy either. But to jump on someone who is using correct English and is able to be a fan without having to identify with the team to the point where they allow themselves to fantasize that they can include themselves in the organization is lame. :-)

    As for JV, clearly he is "next."

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Agree. As far as I know, no one on this board is a member of the Raptors, so where does anyone get off saying "we?" The towel boy that works for free so they can see games can say "we" because he is part of the organization, but when you say it, it simply says "fanboy."
    Except if you use 'we' or 'us' as in "us Toronto Raptors fans."
    Not sure if there is a difference between 'fan' and "fanboy".

    Last I checked you didn't have to be part of the organization to be a fan of the team, and thus be included in the larger collective of 'fans'.
    Last edited by Joey; Tue Jul 12th, 2011 at 09:32 AM.
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    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Agree. As far as I know, no one on this board is a member of the Raptors, so where does anyone get off saying "we?" The towel boy that works for free so they can see games can say "we" because he is part of the organization, but when you say it, it simply says "fanboy."
    "fanboy" as far as I understood it, meant being a fan of One player. So it could not be applied to an organization.


    I think a lot of fans would use: "we", "us", "we won", "we lost". Simply as a term of endearment for the organization by feeling their support was part of the final equation. I think as minimal as you may think that support is, it still gives them enough stock to use those words. IMO.

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I think a fan is someone who likes something and wants to see it do well, and is happy when it does, sad when it doesn't.

    A fanboy is like a zealot, characterized by irrational advocacy of a particular thing. Nothing with sway a fanboy from admitting something is not right about the object of their affection.

  13. #73
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    There are a crap load that wouldn't make (let alone play) on an NCAA team.
    Why don't you names the names and tell us why they couldn't make it to NCAA? Do you realize how many teams are covered under the NCAA's umbrella? I'm with Tim, I think you've gone overboard. The tournament brought together some of the brightest talents from national programs all over the world. Tossing out these general statements with no backing isn't furthering your stance. I can say "the moon is made of cheese and everyone knows it" but at the end of the day that doesn't make the moon made out of cheese.

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    The US team didn't have many of the kids from the hoop summit American team. So it seems like they didn't send their best talent into this tourney. I personally don't think Patrick will be a lottery pick when he does come out but that's just me.

  15. #75
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    In this age the U.S. typically doesn't win world tournaments when they do send a lot of their best talent. The talent barometer shouldn't begin and end with the U.S. team. Similar to Canadian hockey 20 years ago, U.S. basketball today is finding that the rest of the world is gaining on them.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    In this age the U.S. typically doesn't win world tournaments when they do send a lot of their best talent. The talent barometer shouldn't begin and end with the U.S. team. Similar to Canadian hockey 20 years ago, U.S. basketball today is finding that the rest of the world is gaining on them.
    There is also the fact that unlike the US team most of the others have defined basketball programs in their countries that make the national team play together quite a bit during the year. I think even Canada does this a bit which is more if at all for US basketball teams at such tournaments. They tend not to be "teams"....they get far because of their talent level...just like our hockey teams.

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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    The US team didn't have many of the kids from the hoop summit American team. So it seems like they didn't send their best talent into this tourney. I personally don't think Patrick will be a lottery pick when he does come out but that's just me.
    The US had at least two players that are potential lottery picks, and several others that are likely to be drafted. Only a few NCAA teams have that kind of talent on their team. And they came in fifth. I'd say the talent level at the tournament was pretty good.
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    There is also the fact that unlike the US team most of the others have defined basketball programs in their countries that make the national team play together quite a bit during the year. I think even Canada does this a bit which is more if at all for US basketball teams at such tournaments. They tend not to be "teams"....they get far because of their talent level...just like our hockey teams.
    Most other countries' young players also don't take the honor of representing their country for granted. Jose Calderon and Jorge Garbajosa are two prime examples that hit close to home. Especially Jorge who put his NBA career on the line for his national team and ended up losing his NBA career because of it. Andrea Bargnani always tries to play for his country, he's another example.

    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    The US had at least two players that are potential lottery picks, and several others that are likely to be drafted. Only a few NCAA teams have that kind of talent on their team. And they came in fifth. I'd say the talent level at the tournament was pretty good.
    Spain always produces quality teams. There are a lot of Spaniards who could make it in the NCAA and NBA but American ball isn't always held high to all of them. Not all players feel the need to play in the NBA or NCAA to be validated. They probably don't care if some American or Candain couch potato has heard of them because they have a large following where they are and they make excellent money where they are.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote grindhouse wrote: View Post
    The US team didn't have many of the kids from the hoop summit American team. So it seems like they didn't send their best talent into this tourney. I personally don't think Patrick will be a lottery pick when he does come out but that's just me.
    Because some of the guys from the Hoops summit were 17 & 18 as well 19 years old.
    The U19 Tournament basically says you can only have 19 years olds; or guys Under 19, but Older than 18.
    Because there are also an U18 and U16 teams. I think thats how it works.
    After a quick glance at the Rosters and Birthdates of the players, every single guy from Team USA, Lithuania, Australia, and likely all the rest of the teams, is 19 years old. Every single one.
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Because some of the guys from the Hoops summit were 17 & 18 as well 19 years old.
    The U19 Tournament basically says you can only have 19 years olds; or guys Under 19, but Older than 18.
    Because there are also an U18 and U16 teams. I think thats how it works.
    After a quick glance at the Rosters and Birthdates of the players, every single guy from Team USA, Lithuania, Australia, and likely all the rest of the teams, is 19 years old. Every single one.
    There were some young players. I can't name them all without looking it up, but e.g. Dario Saric, center for Croatia, is born on the 8th of April in 1994, so he was a young 17. He played a lot and good too, 4th in scoring, 3th in Rebouding.

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