View Poll Results: If the new CBA allows an amnesty clause, who should the Raptors buy-out?

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  • Jose Calderon

    8 44.44%
  • Andrea Bargnani

    3 16.67%
  • Amir Johnson

    0 0%
  • Linas Kleiza

    6 33.33%
  • DeMar DeRozan

    1 5.56%
  • Ed Davis

    0 0%
  • James Johnson

    0 0%
  • Leandro Barbosa

    0 0%
  • Solomon Alabi

    0 0%
  • Jerryd Bayless

    0 0%
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Thread: If the Raps could waive one contract under a new CBA, who would it be?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default If the Raps could waive one contract under a new CBA, who would it be?

    From Larry Coon's NBA Lockout: FAQ:

    If there is a hard cap, will the league provide teams with an amnesty clause? How would it work?

    The 2005 CBA included a clause referred to as the "Luxury Tax Amnesty Provision." It allowed teams to waive one player whose salary would then be excluded from the team's luxury tax calculations. This clause was added because the league changed its luxury tax system in the 2005 agreement. Teams made their roster decisions based on the terms of the 1999 agreement, and might have planned differently had the 2005 rules been in place at the time. The provision was seen as a way of accommodating teams that may have been impacted by these rule changes.

    This year the league wants to change more than just the luxury tax system -- it wants to make fundamental changes to the salary-cap system itself. Depending on how the negotiations turn out, these changes could be as severe as implementing a hard cap with which teams must immediately comply.

    If the league makes a fundamental change to the salary-cap rules, it is expected to follow suit with another amnesty provision to accommodate the impacted teams. Such a provision would likely allow teams to waive one player, whose salary would then be excluded from the team's salary-cap calculations. The player would still be paid in full -- for example, Orlando couldn't use such a provision to escape its commitment to pay Gilbert Arenas the $62.3 million he is owed over the next three seasons.

    The owners' proposal which included a $45 million hard cap reportedly also included such a provision. But the final determination won't be made until the two sides actually come to terms on a new agreement. The specific workings of an amnesty provision -- or whether a provision is included at all -- ultimately will depend on the changes that are made to the salary-cap system. It's possible that the next agreement will include an amnesty provision that can be used on more than one player, or can be used more than once during the lifetime of the agreement.
    So, if the Raps could buy one player out and have him come off the cap, who would it be? *remember, they can't buy out and then re-sign at lower number*

    Jose Manuel Calderon
    $9,780,993
    $10,561,985
    $0
    $0

    Andrea Bargnani
    $9,000,000
    $10,000,000
    $11,000,000
    $12,000,000

    Leandrinho Barbosa
    $7,600,000
    $0
    $0
    $0

    Amir Johnson
    $5,500,000
    $6,000,000
    $6,500,000
    $7,000,000

    Linas Kleiza
    $4,605,000
    $4,600,000
    $4,600,000 (PO)
    $0

    Jerryd Bayless
    $3,042,280
    $4,164,881 (QO)
    $0
    $0

    DeMar DeRozan
    $2,625,000
    $3,344,250
    $4,531,458 (QO)
    $0

    Ed Davis
    $2,063,040
    $2,207,040
    $3,153,860
    $4,361,788 (QO)

    James Johnson
    $1,833,120
    $2,812,006
    $3,950,868
    $0

    Solomon Alabi
    $830,000
    $890,000 (TO)
    $0
    $0

    TOTALS:
    2011-12 $46,879,433
    2012-13 $39,525,281
    2013-14 $22,100,000
    2014-15 $19,000,000


    Read more: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm#ixzz1S2CgM8Qw

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    For me it would be whoever I couldn't trade to get anything of value in return (any combination of draft picks, prospects, cheap character veterans) or dump salary.

    I think Bargnani has trade value so I would not buy him out.

    Kleiza is not too much of a salary waste if he can return healthy. If he cannot make a comeback, insurance pays his salary and his salary comes off the cap as long as he doesn't play in the NBA (under current CBA rules at least).

    Calderon is taking time from Bayless next year and has $10.5M on the books for the season of 2012-13 heading in to the summer of 2012 when the Raptors might have a franchise talent via draft to go along current young players. Believe it or not, the Raptors might actually be an interesting destination for a free agent with more development from current group of young guys, another strong draft pick, and lots of cap space.

    I would not consider any of the other players.

    So with all that said, Calderon would be my choice.

  3. #3
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    For me it would be Bargnani then Kleiza.

    Bargnani may net a return worth something (and I use that term loosely)... but i would rather not risk being stuck with him on the team for 3/4 more seasons (depending on the lockout).

    Kleiza to this point has been a simple waste of money. Maybe it was just his injury, but I don't have a lot of faith in him and his decision making.

    Jose would either be an expiring contract or 2 years left on his contract. Thats very manageable. At the very least he is a useful peice, a team player and provides leadership. I could see him being a great addition for a team wanting to contend (backup in OKC, Atlanta, Orlando, LA etc)

    Ideally I'd like to see the Raps move Bargnani to a team with a couple big contracts. They'd send the Raps one + a peice (pick, good young player whatever) then waive that contract.

  4. #4
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    I am not sure that kleiza will ever be fully healthy again, and if he does get healthy will play his best.
    I feel like we will not be able to get anything for him, and that he will not help us at all.
    5 Mil may not seem like much, but it could really help us get an extra Free Agent (Wilson Chandler?)

    This is only if we can trade Bargnani for, well anything...

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Calderon for the reasons matt brought out. Good dude but business is business.
    @jerboat

  6. #6
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    As much as I love Calderon, I still had to vote him. Can't blame the guy for signing a grossly inflated contract, but he definitely isn't a $10+ million man.

  7. #7
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    Quote bballnut27 wrote: View Post
    I am not sure that kleiza will ever be fully healthy again, and if he does get healthy will play his best.
    I feel like we will not be able to get anything for him, and that he will not help us at all.
    5 Mil may not seem like much, but it could really help us get an extra Free Agent (Wilson Chandler?)

    This is only if we can trade Bargnani for, well anything...
    The Raptors have a young team but they are not deep on talent. They lost their most talented player last summer as Bosh walked. Why would Colangelo want to trade his best player on the current roster without getting some serious talent in return?

  8. #8
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    Default Stop Dumping on Bargnani

    The guy has never given any indication that he was what the Raps keep trying to make him into. He is an offensive player primarily. He was a lazy defender from the start and has improved greatly in spite of himself. But he is an elite, or near elite, scorer who can and should be getting better. As it is, he is already a good scorer and would be a strong trade chip. People forget that it is a heck of a lot easier to find bangers and rebounders to surround him with than it is to find excellent scorers to surround a bunch of bangers and rebounders with. Problem is that Colangelo opted for the likes of Kapono over rebounders, or chose rebounders with no knees. But people are delusional to think that Bargnani is someone to just dump. He would get some talent in return because he is talent. Lazy defender, but talent.

  9. #9
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    I knew Matt would choose Calderon. With just two years left, and the fact that he's so good for the team, I don't think it's worth waiving him. Especially since he'd be great with Valanciunas running the pick and roll. I think Calderon's presence would really help him.

    As much as I want Bargnani gone, I think he's definitely got trade value, so waiving him makes little sense.

    Kleiza would be the most difficult to move, because of his injuries, but I don't think his contract is all that bad, unless he doesn't recover. And if he does, then I think he can be a valuable asset.

    I don't see any other contract that would even be considered.

    Quite frankly, I don't know whether I'd waive anyone. The Raptors have one of the lowest payrolls in the league and aren't in much of position to even use that to their advantage.
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  10. #10
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    Quote EaseMyPain wrote: View Post
    The guy has never given any indication that he was what the Raps keep trying to make him into. He is an offensive player primarily. He was a lazy defender from the start and has improved greatly in spite of himself. But he is an elite, or near elite, scorer who can and should be getting better. As it is, he is already a good scorer and would be a strong trade chip. People forget that it is a heck of a lot easier to find bangers and rebounders to surround him with than it is to find excellent scorers to surround a bunch of bangers and rebounders with. Problem is that Colangelo opted for the likes of Kapono over rebounders, or chose rebounders with no knees. But people are delusional to think that Bargnani is someone to just dump. He would get some talent in return because he is talent. Lazy defender, but talent.
    I already said I wouldn't waive him, but the guy will be making $12 million in the last year of his contract in 4 years. This despite the fact that the only thing he's not poor at is scoring. Because he's such a poor defender and rebounder, he's simply not a good player, overall, which is why he generally gets killed on advanced stats. And his scoring isn't as impressive as it seems on the surface. If it turns out the Raptors would have to take a bad contract in return for him, I'd dump him.

    Of course, you want to dump Calderon, who has half the length of contract and is more productive than Bargnani. That makes about as much sense as dumping Bargnani.
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  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter MyMomLovesMe's Avatar
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    I would drop Kleiza due to the fact his contract is the most untradable at the moment.


    (This is due to injury, and the amount of time involved to get him to 100%, if that is possible given the seriousness of the injury, plus the fact that we are a young team and can use the spot for development.)

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    If we would have to pay out the amount of his full contract anyway, then why would we pay Jose (or anyone) to go away?
    -We will not be a luxury tax team anyway, so I don't see the benefit of this - it's NOT a free pass to not pay someone, you just buyout their full amount and then they don't count against the luxury cap ... not a big deal for us, unless the new cap is extremely low.
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  13. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I'd dump Bargnani or Kleiza. While I do think Andrea has trade value, I'd also be weary of contracts coming back. As Tim said this is a guy who will be making $12M in a few years who sucks at everything but scoring. And it's not just sucking at everything else, it's the attitude where he doesn't even want to bother.

    You're going to have to take back some pretty bad contracts if you trade Bargnani and believe me is value is not going up. With all the hype surrounding JV, I could see Colangelo being tempted to take a shortcut and trading Bargnani for two Kapono-like contracts and these guys coming in are not going to be young guys.

    It's almost like addition by subtraction.. buy out Bargnani to prevent Colangelo from being tempted to screw up the rebuild.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    DeRozan, Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, James Johnson, Barbosa, Alabi and Bayless are all out of the question for various reasons, so it ultimately boils down to Calderon, Bargnani or Kleiza.

    Calderon is paid roughly twice what he's probably worth but he's still one of the more valuable Raptors from a strictly on the floor point of view and I'd expect him to stay that way for the next two years. He's also on the back end of his deal so shedding his salary should be less of a priority considering his contract actually becomes an asset the season after next. He's also a possibility to re-sign after 2013 at a more reasonable price and have him serve as a backup for a few more seasons.

    It's tempting to choose Bargnani since a lot of us seem to think that the Raptors would improve simply by removing him off our roster, but Colangelo should be able to get something tangible in return for him via trade. His contract is slightly bloated but not completely unreasonable and he's still young so I feel like dumping him for nothing would never seriously be considered, nor should it be.

    So if I had to choose one player it would be Kleiza. His contract isn't outrageous but I think he'd be overpaid even if he was healthy and now that his injuries have become somewhat of a question mark moving forward, he could end up being a much bigger waste of funds than I previously thought. He's also on the books for three more seasons which makes him much harder to move in a trade.

    Having said all that, I'd be surprised if the Raptors waive anyone at all. We probably won't know what type of recovery we can expect out of Kleiza by then, plus I feel like tossing him aside after only 40 games might stir up a few more nasty articles from the European press about how we've disrespected another foreign player. When it's all said and done I could see the Raptors standing pat.
    Last edited by Fully; Thu Jul 14th, 2011 at 10:57 AM.

  15. #15
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Come on guys... Bargnani? Really?

    I think it's crazy to suggest Bargnani. If you compare his stats to others making $10M/yr you'll see his contract is not bad given his offensive production. To suggest waiving his contract would be to suggest giving away one of the most talented players on the team for nothing and all for what? Because we don't like how he plays defense or rebounds? I'm not a Bargnani fan but I am a Raptors fan and as a Raptors fan I can see the value he would have in a deal on the market. I'd rather hold on to him and wait it out until they find the right deal than to say "ok, let's just give him away to create cap space that so that we can go and overpay to get another player in here". Bargnani has lots of trade value. You don't give away assets until you intentionally want your business to fail.

    I think the correct answer is Kleiza. I felt they gave him too much money and unfortunately he never got much of a chance to prove me wrong. You won't see again until the later part of next season at best. He's dead weight.

  16. #16
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I already said I wouldn't waive him, but the guy will be making $12 million in the last year of his contract in 4 years. This despite the fact that the only thing he's not poor at is scoring. Because he's such a poor defender and rebounder, he's simply not a good player, overall, which is why he generally gets killed on advanced stats. And his scoring isn't as impressive as it seems on the surface. If it turns out the Raptors would have to take a bad contract in return for him, I'd dump him.

    Of course, you want to dump Calderon, who has half the length of contract and is more productive than Bargnani. That makes about as much sense as dumping Bargnani.
    Bargnani was top 16 in the league last year in scoring. I'd say that is pretty good, wouldn't you? Also all I have heard from the bloggers is we need a pass first point guard, who gets his teammates involved. What do you guys think Calderon is? He is 5th in the league in assists last year and second in assist to turnover? Look how awful Rose played in the playoffs turning the ball and trying to go one on five every possession. I know that he is a very talented player and scorer, but do you really want a turnover prone ball hog running your offense?

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Actually I think the correct answer is Tim's answer of picking no one.. We're well under the cap so we don't really need to take advantage of this proposed amnesty clause. Besides, you still have to pay the guy he's just not counted in the cap. Kleiza not a huge hit.. he's only making, what, $4.5M per? And the only options we have at SF are him and James Johnson.

    But if we HAD to pick someone since this thread is all hypothetical, I'd go with Bargs and Kleiza next. Just in case. Considering many of you picked Kleiza.. my hypothesis is that if we trade Bargs, we'll end up with two more Kleiza-like contracts (and Kleiza-like players).
    Last edited by ebrian; Thu Jul 14th, 2011 at 12:16 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    Jose would either be an expiring contract or 2 years left on his contract. Thats very manageable. At the very least he is a useful peice, a team player and provides leadership. I could see him being a great addition for a team wanting to contend (backup in OKC, Atlanta, Orlando, LA etc)
    I think we need to hang on to Calderon. The burn of his big contract will be gone after this year, and then he'll be seen as 10 mil of cap space. On top of that, the argument that he'd be a good fit for a contender is true, so why can't that be Toronto? In two years we'll be in good shape with a talented young roster having developed, some new top tier rookies brought in and potentially a great free agent pulled in by the potential of our young team. I'd be thrilled if Calderon stuck around and took a big pay-cut to be our backup point guard. He's a character guy and I think he'd consider leaving dollars on the table elsewhere to stay here.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    I'd be in the same boat as Tim with not waiving anyone on the current roster. If I had to pick one it would be Kleiza but only after getting feed back on his recovery/progress. He wasn't healthy all year and we didn't get a chance to see his at 100%. His contract isn't big enough to be considered a burden and if he can come back healthy is young enough to stay in the rebuild while offering a different dimension then anyone else on the team.

  20. #20
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    Bargnani was top 16 in the league last year in scoring. I'd say that is pretty good, wouldn't you? Also all I have heard from the bloggers is we need a pass first point guard, who gets his teammates involved. What do you guys think Calderon is? He is 5th in the league in assists last year and second in assist to turnover? Look how awful Rose played in the playoffs turning the ball and trying to go one on five every possession. I know that he is a very talented player and scorer, but do you really want a turnover prone ball hog running your offense?
    Bargnani was 16th in the league in scoring, but two years ago Corey Maggette was 17th in scoring, three years ago Devin Harris was 15th in scoring, four years ago Maggette was 11th in scoring, five years ago Ben Gordon was 15th in scoring, six years ago Mike James was 20th in scoring...

    Get my point? Maggette is a very good scorer, but is such a poor defender that the only year his team made the playoffs was when he missed the majority of the season with injury. Devin Harris has only scored more than 16.9 ppg once in his career when he scored 21.3 ppg the year the Nets won 34 games. Ben Gordon actually did score well on a playoff team, but has been ineffective in Detroit. And I think everyone here knows all about Mike James.

    Bargnani is most certainly a very good scorer. But that alone doesn't make him a valuable player. In fact, his lack of defense and rebounding, especially for a big man, ends up making him a detriment to the team, most of the time. And the advanced stats show that. That's why simply looking at the box score doesn't exactly tell you everything. Because if that was the case then Corey Maggette would be a perennial All-Star.
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