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Thread: Fear Amir

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Default Fear Amir

    Gotta show the big dawg some love. He is a great player and an amazing person. Hope he stays in T.O his entire career.





    one of my favorite memories of the 2010-2011 season came from Amir Johnson. I think it had to be the game winner in OKC. I was so happy for him when he made that play. Just goes to show hard work pays off.
    Last edited by Ambidextrious; Sat Aug 20th, 2011 at 04:18 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    i like Amir hes a hard worker... he never gives up on a play.. and hes willing to come off the bench if it makes the team better.. cant ask for much more. i wouldnt over pay to keep him though.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Yeah I gotta agree with you on everything you said. His contract seems to be the only problem. You can't blame the guy, anyone in their sane mind would take the money and run. I think he is a good player but his contract is still a bit pricey. I Blame BC on that one

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    I realized one of the reasons I like Amir so much (apart from the fact that he's very productive and has a positive effect on the floor, is that he's exactly the type of player I love playing with. He hustles all the time, is always moving to the basket for a pass, never gives up on a play and makes PGs look good. It's also one reason I HATE any discussion about trading him. Guys like him are far more difficult to find than people seem to think. And they're far more conducive to winning, too.
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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I realized one of the reasons I like Amir so much (apart from the fact that he's very productive and has a positive effect on the floor, is that he's exactly the type of player I love playing with. He hustles all the time, is always moving to the basket for a pass, never gives up on a play and makes PGs look good. It's also one reason I HATE any discussion about trading him. Guys like him are far more difficult to find than people seem to think. And they're far more conducive to winning, too.
    I like Amir because he is playing with a chip on his shoulder. He's got the physical and mental toughness that will take you a long way in the NBA. He has shown to be patient and humble. Amir knows his role and he excels at what he does best. He plays within himself and hardly forces plays. Speaking of plays he rarely has any called out for him but he is still highly productive (14.64 efficiency down a bit from 2009-2010).

    He plays with unparalleled energy and enthusiasm. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many points you drop (Andrea). What really counts are the intangibles (Amir). I feel that the people who want to trade him are completely clueless.
    Last edited by Ambidextrious; Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 12:40 AM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Here is a good read on Amir Johnson from our very own Arsenalist. It was exactly a year and one day ago he wrote this but its still a good article.

    http://raptorsrepublic.com/2010/08/2...is-surprising/

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    "I am also a Torontonian."

    Oh Amir, you know just what to say to get in our pants.

    And what the hell, his contract is NOT that bad guys.
    Last edited by Joey; Sun Aug 21st, 2011 at 02:22 AM.
    "I have self-doubt. I have insecurity. I have fear of failure. We all have self-doubt. You don't deny it, but you also don't capitulate to it. You embrace it. You rise above it." -Kobe Bryant

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    "I am also a Torontonian."

    Oh Amir, you know what to say to get in our pants.

    And what the hell, his contract is NOT that bad guys.
    LOL! #Pause

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Yeah that part stood out for me too. "I am also a Torontonian." What a class act. Gotta love that. I have to agree his contract is not that bad. At the time of signing it might not have look like the best deal. I think BC used a fair bit of foresight when making him that offer. Hes still young with a high upside and potential. He just needs the minutes and plays run for him.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    "I am also a Torontonian."

    Oh Amir, you know just what to say to get in our pants.

    And what the hell, his contract is NOT that bad guys.
    Actually, it's not bad in any way shape or form. Most of the criticism was based on incorrect numbers. He's making less than the MLE, and he's one of the more productive big men in the league.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Actually, it's not bad in any way shape or form. Most of the criticism was based on incorrect numbers. He's making less than the MLE, and he's one of the more productive big men in the league.
    Many people have commented on threads here that his $ is too much. But I have to agree with Tim, how many teams would love to have a guy willing to come off the bench, and produce on both ends of the floor for less than the MLE? He works hard, he played hurt all last season and never mentioned the pain. Just produced. He seems like a lead by example kind of guy that doesn't ask for much in return and is worth every penny that we are paying him.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    I like Amir because he is playing with a chip on his shoulder. He's got the physical and mental toughness that will take you a long way in the NBA. He has shown to be patient and humble. Amir knows his role and he excels at what he does best. He plays within himself and hardly forces plays. Speaking of plays he rarely has any called out for him but he is still highly productive (14.64 efficiency down a bit from 2009-2010).

    He plays with unparalleled energy and enthusiasm. Sometimes it doesn't matter how many points you drop (Andrea). What really counts are the intangibles (Amir). I feel that the people who want to trade him are completely clueless.
    I'm one of the people who have been in favour of trading Amir on a few other threads, but am certainly not clueless. I also agree with everything that you, Tim and others have said about Amir. I think a lot of people seem to almost take it personally when an alternative approach is pointed out, when it involves a player they like/appreciate. I want to stress that I've never had anything negative to say about Amir and/or his contract.

    For me, the only reason I would ever contemplate trading him is because in any deal, you have to give up talent to get talent. The Raptors are a team with lots of holes and the one position they are deep at in quality players is PF - Amir, Davis and Bargnani. I think Davis is going the be the best of the bunch on both ends of the court, plus he is young and under rookie contract, meaning he shouldn't go anywhere. Bargnani is one-dimensional and there are arguments against his efficiency at that one positive dimension (scoring), plus he's making over $10M per season, meaning I'm doubtful the Raptors would get good value back in a Bargnani deal. That leaves us with Amir. The positives have been spoken about already, which is why I think he is the best PF trade chip the Raptors have, to enable them to go out and make a deal to address other hole(s) in their roster for the long-term - be it player(s) and/or draft pick(s) coming back.

    So please don't paint anybody who entertains the option of trading Amir with your "clueless" brush. Please also don't assume that the rationale behind trading Amir is simply because those people think he has a bad contract, or isn't a good player/person or has a hardon for other more controversial players. The idea that Amir has the most trade value among the Raptor PFs should actually speak volumes about the type of player and person he is... that's why other teams would be expected to value him as a player they can utilize now, thereby giving up good young assets to help the Raptors address team needs at other positions for the future.

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    While I understand giving up talent to get talent, the problem with trading Amir is that his trade value probably doesn't equal his impact on the game. He doesn't have much of an offense, has no extraordinary aspect of his game, and seems more suited to a bench role because he's a high energy player. Yet he's got a more positive impact when he's in the game than players of similar production.

    Now if trading Amir will bring in a perennial All-Star, then obviously you've got to think about that. But, to me, Amir is a piece you want to keep because I can see him being a contributor to a Championship. Considering he's only one of 3 or 4 guys on the roster I see in that position, I'm not sure how trading him is best for the team.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    While I understand giving up talent to get talent, the problem with trading Amir is that his trade value probably doesn't equal his impact on the game. He doesn't have much of an offense, has no extraordinary aspect of his game, and seems more suited to a bench role because he's a high energy player. Yet he's got a more positive impact when he's in the game than players of similar production.

    Now if trading Amir will bring in a perennial All-Star, then obviously you've got to think about that. But, to me, Amir is a piece you want to keep because I can see him being a contributor to a Championship. Considering he's only one of 3 or 4 guys on the roster I see in that position, I'm not sure how trading him is best for the team.
    I guess for me I would hope there is a playoff team that wants to add an impact player / backup PF, who can be a spark for the 2nd unit and help push the starters. He's a player fans love and could give a middle-of-the-pack and/or aging playoff team the boost they need. On his own, or with another player and/or maybe a 2nd-round draft pick, I would be happy if the Raps were able to get another 1st-round pick back in return, even one in the 15-30 range given how strong next year's draft is supposed to be.

    I personlly would be fine with Davis/Bargnani @ PF moving forward, if moving Amir nets the team another 1st round pick (or a good young unproven player with significant upside). Either way, the Raps trade talent from a position of strength/depth (PF) to help them add yet another good young core piece, but at another position.

    I agree that I wouldn't give him away, just as I wouldn't trade away any other player without getting something useful/equal back in return.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I guess for me I would hope there is a playoff team that wants to add an impact player / backup PF, who can be a spark for the 2nd unit and help push the starters. He's a player fans love and could give a middle-of-the-pack and/or aging playoff team the boost they need. On his own, or with another player and/or maybe a 2nd-round draft pick, I would be happy if the Raps were able to get another 1st-round pick back in return, even one in the 15-30 range given how strong next year's draft is supposed to be.

    I personlly would be fine with Davis/Bargnani @ PF moving forward, if moving Amir nets the team another 1st round pick (or a good young unproven player with significant upside). Either way, the Raps trade talent from a position of strength/depth (PF) to help them add yet another good young core piece, but at another position.

    I agree that I wouldn't give him away, just as I wouldn't trade away any other player without getting something useful/equal back in return.
    If you would give up Amir for a 15-30 pick then we COMPLETELY disagree about his value to a team. That would be a horrendous trade. I'd guess that 90% of players picked in that range don't end up making as positive an impact as Amir does. And I think there are plenty of playoff teams that would love to have him. It doesn't mean you should trade him, though.

    And the fact that you'd trade Amir over Bargnani means we are lightyears apart. If I'm in charge of the Raptors, I'm looking to build a Championship team, and that means keeping Championship calibre players and trading away those that don't make the cut. Championship calibre players have intangibles that help you win. They're willing to do the dirty work, even if they're All-Stars. Amir is a Championship calibre player. Bargnani is not. Not when he isn't interested in defense or rebounding. Not when his dedication is questioned. It constantly astounds me that people continue to overlook this because he can put the ball in the basket.
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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    I'm with Tim on this one.

    Amir/Ed/Jonas as a 3 man rotation is far more conducive to winning, than Andrea/Ed/Jonas. In my opinion anyway.

    What Bargnani would bring on the offensive side would be given right back to the other team, with his indifference to playing any type of Team Defense.
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    i would package Amir + Calderon + Kleiza to Pistons for Hamilton + DET 1st round pick (Top 10 protected)

    We draft Q.Miller and Myck Kabongo and call it a draft in 2012, sign a Center and third string SF then call it a season

    2012-13 season
    Kabongo/Bayless/Barbosa*
    DeRozan/Hamilton/Weems
    Q.Miller/J.Johnson/3rd string SF
    Bargnani/E.Davis/J.Dorsey*
    Valanciunas/Center/S.Alabi

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'm one of the people who have been in favour of trading Amir on a few other threads, but am certainly not clueless. I also agree with everything that you, Tim and others have said about Amir. I think a lot of people seem to almost take it personally when an alternative approach is pointed out, when it involves a player they like/appreciate. I want to stress that I've never had anything negative to say about Amir and/or his contract.

    For me, the only reason I would ever contemplate trading him is because in any deal, you have to give up talent to get talent. The Raptors are a team with lots of holes and the one position they are deep at in quality players is PF - Amir, Davis and Bargnani. I think Davis is going the be the best of the bunch on both ends of the court, plus he is young and under rookie contract, meaning he shouldn't go anywhere. Bargnani is one-dimensional and there are arguments against his efficiency at that one positive dimension (scoring), plus he's making over $10M per season, meaning I'm doubtful the Raptors would get good value back in a Bargnani deal. That leaves us with Amir. The positives have been spoken about already, which is why I think he is the best PF trade chip the Raptors have, to enable them to go out and make a deal to address other hole(s) in their roster for the long-term - be it player(s) and/or draft pick(s) coming back.

    So please don't paint anybody who entertains the option of trading Amir with your "clueless" brush. Please also don't assume that the rationale behind trading Amir is simply because those people think he has a bad contract, or isn't a good player/person or has a hardon for other more controversial players. The idea that Amir has the most trade value among the Raptor PFs should actually speak volumes about the type of player and person he is... that's why other teams would be expected to value him as a player they can utilize now, thereby giving up good young assets to help the Raptors address team needs at other positions for the future.
    Like you said this team is one filled with a lot of holes. I do not think the solution to filling these holes is to trade a player with 6 years NBA experience. For a player with 0 experience. That would just leave us with a larger hole. Amir was a late draft pick but he has shown multiple teams who passed on him they made a mistake. How bad do you think Detroit would want him back right now? How many rookies come into a season 100% ready? I am for rebuilding, that's only if it is necessary. I'd rather see where Amir can go given more minutes and plays.

    Just because you think it might be hard to trade a player like Andrea, which i disagree with, does not mean it can not be done. Look at Turk. What did we get back for him? A quality player who makes us better. Now imagine what we could get for Bargnani. I'm not saying to jump on the first offer we get. We should get the best possible deal done to make our team better. That is where you and I do not meet eye to eye. Sorry to call you clueless I just call it like I see it.

    I am with Tim and Joey and the rest of the sensible Raps fans out there.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    i would package Amir + Calderon + Kleiza to Pistons for Hamilton + DET 1st round pick (Top 10 protected)

    We draft Q.Miller and Myck Kabongo and call it a draft in 2012, sign a Center and third string SF then call it a season

    2012-13 season
    Kabongo/Bayless/Barbosa*
    DeRozan/Hamilton/Weems
    Q.Miller/J.Johnson/3rd string SF
    Bargnani/E.Davis/J.Dorsey*
    Valanciunas/Center/S.Alabi
    I think that's a horrible idea.

    Hamilton is washed up. Amir is part of this teams core moving forward IMO. Although I like Kabongo, I would think Bayless is our future PG at this point. We have barely scratched the surface with his game. He needs to start next season. Based on the last ten games of last season where he started. I don't know the exact numbers but i think he averaged 20+ points a game and 5+ assists. That is highly respectable. With Jose coming off the bench, he has shown to be capable of racking up 7-8 assists a night. That would be a highly potent backcourt. Jose is a team guy and I'm sure he understands where he is at in his career. He would be able to lead the second unit and do what he does best, facilitate. I think come 2012 Draft, we should either get Harrison Barnes or Andre Drummond.

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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    i would package Amir + Calderon + Kleiza to Pistons for Hamilton + DET 1st round pick (Top 10 protected)

    We draft Q.Miller and Myck Kabongo and call it a draft in 2012, sign a Center and third string SF then call it a season

    2012-13 season
    Kabongo/Bayless/Barbosa*
    DeRozan/Hamilton/Weems
    Q.Miller/J.Johnson/3rd string SF
    Bargnani/E.Davis/J.Dorsey*
    Valanciunas/Center/S.Alabi
    Where to begin....

    NO ONE is taking Kleiza in a trade because he has a career threatening injury and 4 years left on his contract. Trading Amir AND Calderon for a player well past his prime, causes problems in the locker room last season, and a pick outside of the top 10 is a bad deal for the Raptors.

    Keeping Bayless and drafting Kabongo is also probably not the best idea, unless you want a repeat of the TJ Ford/Calderon issue.

    Keeping Bargnani is basically saying you're not making defense a priority and thus, are not trying to build a Championship team. And starting him ahead of Ed Davis, who will be a much better player by the time is ridiculous.

    Other than that I don't have a problem.
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