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Thread: The Lineup That Might Work

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    Default The Lineup That Might Work

    Let's say we have half a season to play for the 2011-12 season (i'm praying) so we might be able to get a top 3 picks or else we might land to pick No30 consider all teams will be going through lottery if there is a full lockout.

    So for the free agent part, we might sign a center (whether it's T.Chandler, Nene, or whoever comes on board, or heck, start Solomon Alabi). I would shout out to Dwayne Casey to put a lineup of

    Bayless/Calderon
    DeRozan/D-League SG, Since both Barbosa and Weems have signed a year for other team
    Amir Johnson/J.Johnson/*Linas Kleiza (* being injured)
    Bargnani/E.Davis/J.Dorsey
    Veteran C/Solomon Alabi

    We might win a few games and end up perhaps with a (12-28) record

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Not to rip you apart, but it would pay to do some research in regards to how the draft order or lottery would play out if there was no season, there is no way all 30 teams get an equal shot at the top pick. There are many scenarios that have been discussed already on this forum.

    As for getting either of Nene or Chandler I say there is no way it will happen.
    Amir at the 3? Are you even serious?

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    What in tar-nation are you thinking? Amir Johnson as a SF? Are you serious? There goes your credibility out the window. There is no need to give up big money on a center. Im sick and tired of hearing people put Bargs as a PF. Yeah his skill set suits a PF but the team has the right to put him as any position they need to fill. A good player will be coach able, they must be able to adapt and ajust their game. Bargs is a WHINY BABY, someone get him a baby bottle and change his diaper. Since when does a player who hasn't proved anything get to dictate what he wants to do on a court. Now I do not want to turn this thread into a bash Bargs thread (too little too late), It's really hard not to. Next season BC should give DC the full reigns of this team (which he hasn't done in the past because of his inability to admit the Andrea project was a complete failure) DC should tell Andrea to quit whining and play Center if he wants to play at all. When Jonas Valancuinas comes over from Europe, he can replace Andrea on this team. Allowing for us to trade Bargs for a pick and some veteran players. We are in desperate need of a proven piece at the SF position. A quality backup C is highly needed as well. (Andre Drummond 2012 draft?)

    Going back to the topic this is a lineup that will work next season

    Bayless/Calderon
    Derozan/Barbosa (he's coming back if there is a season its in his contract with the Brazilian team)
    J.Johnson/Derozan
    Davis/A.Johnson
    Bargnani/A.Johnson

    This lineup is far from complete. but it gives you an idea of who is going to be playing and where.
    case closed.
    Last edited by Ambidextrious; Sat Aug 20th, 2011 at 08:42 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    last time i checked Barbosa's deal included an out, if the nba resumes mid season he is allowed to come back , weems can & will stay there we have no use for him anyway,

    and like the others said Amir as SF really??

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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    last time i checked Barbosa's deal included an out, if the nba resumes mid season he is allowed to come back , weems can & will stay there we have no use for him anyway,

    and like the others said Amir as SF really??
    Barbosa already picked up his option. He's under contract for next season.
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    And while Amir is athletic, he can't defend SFs. He's not a good perimeter defender and he's simply not quick enough to defend the position. Amir at SF makes about as much sense as Bargnani at SF.

    Besides, I'm not really sure what you mean by "might work". You say that and then say they could go .300. Are you saying that lineup will help the Raptors lose games and get a high pick? Is that what you're saying? That's they'll be bad with that lineup? THAT I agree with.
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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    And while Amir is athletic, he can't defend SFs. He's not a good perimeter defender and he's simply not quick enough to defend the position. Amir at SF makes about as much sense as Bargnani at SF.

    Besides, I'm not really sure what you mean by "might work". You say that and then say they could go .300. Are you saying that lineup will help the Raptors lose games and get a high pick? Is that what you're saying? That's they'll be bad with that lineup? THAT I agree with.
    +1 Good point if OP's aim is to lose next year i think he's got the lineup that might work lol

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    I say, like some of you have already...

    Bayless / Calderon ( Who starts? dun dun dun!!!!)
    DD/ Barbs
    J Johnson / 5 or 6 10 day contracts ( or kleiza, same thing)
    Andrea / ED
    Amir / Alabi

    It will give alabi some plaiyng time (I've heard alot of people say they've seen gret improvement from him), we can see if he has a future in the nba

    We can put andrea at PF if he sucks, he can suck it and his 'I'm playing out of posistion' excuse.

    Plus, we'll still suck and get a good draft pick that can join jonas for the following year.

    Like everything, this is assuming we have a season
    Last edited by Fuchan; Mon Aug 22nd, 2011 at 04:42 PM.

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    Quote Fuchan wrote: View Post
    I say, like some of you have already...

    Bayless / Calderon ( Who starts? dun dun dun!!!!)
    DD/ Barbs
    J Johnson / 5 or 6 10 day contracts ( or kleiza, same thing)
    Andrea / ED
    Amir / Alabi

    It will give alabi some plaiyng time (I've heard alot of people say they've seen gret improvement from him), we can see if he has a future in the nba

    We can put andrea at PF if he sucks, he can suck it and his 'I'm playing out of posistion' excuse.

    Plus, we'll still suck and get a good draft pick that can join jonas for the following year.

    Like everything, this is assuming we have a season
    I'd probably want (and expect) the team to start Jose until Bayless proves he's capable of consistency, but otherwise I think thats very likely what the starting line up will look like.

    And if Andrea 'sucks' at PF next season, it will be the team that has to suck it as his 10 mil a year contract will be stuck on the books. If he can't pull off something that actually resembles a productive season this year he might as well legally change his name to Eddie Curry.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote GarbageTime wrote: View Post
    I'd probably want (and expect) the team to start Jose until Bayless proves he's capable of consistency, but otherwise I think thats very likely what the starting line up will look like.

    And if Andrea 'sucks' at PF next season, it will be the team that has to suck it as his 10 mil a year contract will be stuck on the books. If he can't pull off something that actually resembles a productive season this year he might as well legally change his name to Eddie Curry.
    LOL! I'm pretty sure the Knicks are still paying off Curry's massive contract. Even though he hasn't touched the hardwood in recent memory. I disagree with Bayless not being ready to start. He is the future PG of this team. read the Fear Amir thread and see why I think that. I think consistency is key but we should at least give him a shot, and let him fight through growing pains.

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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    LOL! I'm pretty sure the Knicks are still paying off Curry's massive contract. Even though he hasn't touched the hardwood in recent memory. I disagree with Bayless not being ready to start. He is the future PG of this team. read the Fear Amir thread and see why I think that. I think consistency is key but we should at least give him a shot, and let him fight through growing pains.
    +1

    It is a catch 22 with starting Bayless. He has not shown consistency yet he hasn't been consistently given an opportunity to start. Calderon is a known commodity. The Raptors have had the most success with him coming off the bench with the second unit in years past. Bayless has had his most success starting - what if he averaged 18/7 over an entire season if given the opportunity? Coming off a 22 win season I'm not content to stay status-quo with a starting PG who has reached his full potential.

    Bayless' last 8 games of the year:

    37.8 min
    7.4-15.3 & 48.4%FG
    1.8-4.3 and 41.2% 3pt
    6.0-7.3 & 82.8% FT
    22.5 pts
    3.0 rebs
    5.6 assists
    0.3 blk
    1.1 stl
    2.8 to

    The Raps went 2-6 with 5 of 8 teams being playoff teams (1-4 versus playoff and 1-2 versus non-playoff).
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Aug 23rd, 2011 at 08:35 AM.

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    Barbosa's contract allows him to come back when the lockout ends. Solomon Alabi (as much as some raptor fans hate to admit) is a risk and is not going to be consistent. Expecting him to be a solid player at first is a risk. Amir Johnson at SF? What? The raptors tried this when they played Bargnani at the 3, and it did not work out. As for the veteran C, I doubt we obtain one of that caliber. There was some mention of going after a C but I do not think it would be a big ticket guy. And even so, these players will be overpayed?

    You have confirmed to me that without some intense improvements, trades, and free agency signings, the raptors need some luck to become a playoff team.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    +1

    It is a catch 22 with starting Bayless. He has not shown consistency yet he hasn't been consistently given an opportunity to start. Calderon is a known commodity. The Raptors have had the most success with him coming off the bench with the second unit in years past. Bayless has had his most success starting - what if he averaged 18/7 over an entire season if given the opportunity? Coming off a 22 win season I'm not content to stay status-quo with a starting PG who has reached his full potential.

    Bayless' last 8 games of the year:

    37.8 min
    7.4-15.3 & 48.4%FG
    1.8-4.3 and 41.2% 3pt
    6.0-7.3 & 82.8% FT
    22.5 pts
    3.0 rebs
    5.6 assists
    0.3 blk
    1.1 stl
    2.8 to

    The Raps went 2-6 with 5 of 8 teams being playoff teams (1-4 versus playoff and 1-2 versus non-playoff).
    Wow I was pretty accurate. His stats look very good as a starter. Even though we went 2-6 during that stretch. Realistically a 20 win team is not going to beat playoff teams a week or so away from playoffs. Like you said 18ppg-7ast would be more than fine as a starter. It's unlikely he will still be playing that many minutes as a starter next season. I see him playing around 28-32 mpg. 22ppg would be nice from Bayless although the 5.6 assists could use a boost. To maximize Jose's impact, he still needs at least 20 mpg to get his 8-8. Thanks for doing the research Matt. This proves that Bayless is our starter from here on out. With Dwayne Casey as our coach next season, he will implement a free flowing offense built on defensive stops. That will allow players like Bayless and DeRozan J.Johnson A.Johnson and Davis to utilize their athleticism and knack for the game.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    +1

    It is a catch 22 with starting Bayless. He has not shown consistency yet he hasn't been consistently given an opportunity to start. Calderon is a known commodity. The Raptors have had the most success with him coming off the bench with the second unit in years past. Bayless has had his most success starting - what if he averaged 18/7 over an entire season if given the opportunity? Coming off a 22 win season I'm not content to stay status-quo with a starting PG who has reached his full potential.

    Bayless' last 8 games of the year:

    37.8 min
    7.4-15.3 & 48.4%FG
    1.8-4.3 and 41.2% 3pt
    6.0-7.3 & 82.8% FT
    22.5 pts
    3.0 rebs
    5.6 assists
    0.3 blk
    1.1 stl
    2.8 to

    The Raps went 2-6 with 5 of 8 teams being playoff teams (1-4 versus playoff and 1-2 versus non-playoff).

    Excellent post.
    Last edited by Ambidextrious; Wed Aug 24th, 2011 at 07:56 PM.

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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    Wow I was pretty accurate. His stats look very good as a starter. Even though we went 2-6 during that stretch. Realistically a 20 win team is not going to beat playoff teams a week or so away from playoffs. Like you said 18ppg-7ast would be more than fine as a starter. It's unlikely he will still be playing that many minutes as a starter next season. I see him playing around 28-32 mpg. 22ppg would be nice from Bayless although the 5.6 assists could use a boost. To maximize Jose's impact, he still needs at least 20 mpg to get his 8-8. Thanks for doing the research Matt. This proves that Bayless is our starter from here on out. With Dwayne Casey as our coach next season, he will implement a free flowing offense built on defensive stops. That will allow players like Bayless and DeRozan J.Johnson A.Johnson and Davis to utilize their athleticism and knack for the game.
    Unfortunately the stats prove nothing except for a short period he can score. The 5.6 apg highlights his biggest weakness, which is the fact that he's still more a combo guard than a PG. I'm still hopefull about Bayless, but until he learns how to run an offense and make his teammates better, he's no more the future at PG than Calderon is.
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    Quote Tim W. wrote: View Post
    Unfortunately the stats prove nothing except for a short period he can score. The 5.6 apg highlights his biggest weakness, which is the fact that he's still more a combo guard than a PG. I'm still hopefull about Bayless, but until he learns how to run an offense and make his teammates better, he's no more the future at PG than Calderon is.
    Agreed. Let's hope he will be stepping up next season. I wonder how his game will look in his prime. At this point I think he could be a 24-6-4 per 36 minutes type of player.

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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    Agreed. Let's hope he will be stepping up next season. I wonder how his game will look in his prime. At this point I think he could be a 24-6-4 per 36 minutes type of player.
    I could care less about his stats. Two things I want from my PG. Run an offense and make teammates better. If he can't do those then he's not really a PG.
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    I somewhat agree with you, but I am inclined to disagree with you as well. Elite PG's are able to score at will. At the same time making their teammates better. What your saying is that you could care less about scoring stats. Therefore we can make the assumption that Jose is your ideal PG. What has that gotten us so far? Your idea of a good PG is one that can distribute and make his teammates better. I agree with you on that, but your lead Guard needs to be able to score and defend. If your PG is able to break down defense and score. He will put more pressure of on defenses causing them to collapse leaving someone open. At that point it is up to the PG to get the ball to where it is supposed to be. That is where Jerryd Bayless needs to improve. I am sure he will find a way to improve in that area of his game. Other than that I am a Bay-liever.
    Last edited by Ambidextrious; Thu Aug 25th, 2011 at 04:42 AM.

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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    I somewhat agree with you, but I am inclined to disagree with you as well. Elite PG's are able to score at will. At the same time making their teammates better. What your saying is that you could care less about stats. Therefore we can make the assumption that Jose is your ideal PG. What has that gotten us so far? Your idea of a good PG is one that can distribute and make his teammates better. I agree with you on that, but your lead Guard needs to be able to score and defend. If your PG is able to break down defense and score. He will put more pressure of on defenses causing them to collapse leaving someone open. At that point it is up to the PG to get the ball to where it is supposed to be. That is where Jerryd Bayless needs to improve. I am sure he will find a way to improve in that area of his game. Other than that I am a Bay-liever.
    Elite PGs can do pretty much ANYTHING at will. That's what makes them elite PGs. They also can run an offense and make their teammates better.

    As for Calderon, if he were 5 years younger, I'd have no problem with him being the future at that position for the Raptors. Blaming him for the lack of Raptor success is a little ridiculous. His two biggest issues are his lack of defense and his injuries. His lack of scoring is the least of his problems.

    Name me the last PG from a Championship team that scored 20 or more ppg. In fact, name the last the 20+ppg scoring PG from a team that made it to the Finals.

    The fact is that it's incredibly difficult for a PG to run an offense through driving and kicking it out. It becomes predictable and easy to stop. Especially in the playoffs. Teams start preventing the PG from driving and there goes the offense.

    Bayless needs to do A LOT more than be able to score and drive the ball. Being a PG is a lot more difficult than that, which is why so many combo guards fail to make the transition. In fact, only a handful do. Chauncey Billups took 5 years and 5 teams to figure it out, and he might have one of the highest basketball IQs in the NBA.

    It's certainly popular now to have a PG that can score, but that doesn't mean you need one to win. And a lot of times it can even hurt.
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