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View Poll Results: Do we go for the tank?

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  • No tank - ride out the roster, only changes to the coaching staff are needed

    0 0%
  • "Retool" - new coach, new PF, couple of new wings to replace expiring contracts

    25 71.43%
  • Accelerated Rebuild - quick 1 year hard tank. Go all in on the 2016 draft. New coach

    2 5.71%
  • Full Tank - New coach and new system. Add pieces from the next 3 drafts. Completely redo the roster

    8 22.86%
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Thread: Is Tanking An Option?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Default Is Tanking An Option?

    Yes, I am bringing RR's most heated debate back to life. Is tanking a good option this offseason?

    Opinions:
    - Talent will win games in the playoffs
    - A team that has a balanced offense that doesn't pivot around one or two players is stronger than relying on one
    - The Raptors should play a slow-down Memphis type game, only with three point shooters instead of

    Facts:
    - Raptors only have $48 million in salary in 2015/2016, allowing them to be active in trades
    - Raptors have 2 first round draft picks in 2016 (theirs + worse of NYK/Den)
    - New coach/system is required, which will take a year to implement and teach players, regardless of talent/experience, which will mean competing in the playoffs may be hard anyways
    - Bruno, Bebe and JV all need developmental time. Bruno and Bebe need PT. JV needs to be a larger part of the offense.
    - 4 of the 5 guards (Lowry/DD/Lou/GV) require the ball in their hands to be effective. We need to revamp guard line-up to have more balance between needing the ball and playing off the ball.
    - Ross is largely a question mark
    - PF position is a question mark.
    - Need a backup PG
    - 2016 draft is looking deep, with a variety of talent

    Business:
    - 2016 All star game will bring money to MLSE, regardless of Raptors W/L record. A perfect business storm to lose, yet still make money

    If we continue on the current path, it looks like the ceiling is bottom 4 in the east perennial treadmill, with worse case being late lotto treadmill. We either go all-in on some talent (trade or FA), or we pull back, sell on assets that have more value than in the past, and enter into the 2016/2017/2018 draft via other team's picks?

    Go with MU's original plan of "developing/growing through the draft". We need some serious talent, and the only way we are going to get that is to go Philly or go home...

    Thoughts
    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    What do you know, we tried to tank and it worked!

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star
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    Raps have the allstar game in tdot next year

    we need a better team then the one we got rn

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter
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    Default

    LOOOOOOOOL, It is two years late to Tank
    When you are TOO patient, you will lose on opportunities.

  4. #4
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    I went accelerated, though I disagree that it means a tank next season. Move the vet pieces, keep the promising young guys, make a move in free agency or two, stock up draft picks for 2016, maybe move up the draft that year, bring in a new coach that is truly defence first. With a decent return on Lowry or DD trades (for example), and a couple nice FA acquisitions, this team could be fighting for 8th but with a young roster destined to improve every year, and with a few extra picks, sort of like BOS right now.

  5. #5
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    He expected the Raptors to do well this year obviously, and this has to be a disappointed, but I don't know if Masai expected this to seriously compete in the playoffs (i.e. where he wants the Raptors to be). I think his timeline on actually being a true, strong and legitimate playoff contender is actually in a couple years from now.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I vote full on tank only because it would take getting a generational talent or perennial all-nba talent plus a brad Stevens type coach to bounce back so quick. So if you're going to go that route, sign up for the long haul to avoid the BC mistakes.

    I'd trade everyone except JV and Bruno. Bruno is untouchable period. JV is tradable if you're getting a legit C in return.

    Hire a coach system based with an emphasis On player development and experience working with young players either in NCAA or dleague.

    If I am Masai I am looking to maximize every single player on this team through trade and every free agent through sign and trade. I don't bring any free agents back unless it is on minimum contract.

    Any of one bill Simmons trade ideas were gold minus Wiggins trolling and George hill/11.


    Spurs destroying clippers.....love it.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  8. #7
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    Hey, where's the option in the poll where we keep our head coach?









    heh, just kidding.
    tank-agnostic

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  10. #8
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Hey, where's the option in the poll where we keep our head coach?









    heh, just kidding.
    There is a trolling policy, dude.

    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  12. #9
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I went accelerated, though I disagree that it means a tank next season. Move the vet pieces, keep the promising young guys, make a move in free agency or two, stock up draft picks for 2016, maybe move up the draft that year, bring in a new coach that is truly defence first. With a decent return on Lowry or DD trades (for example), and a couple nice FA acquisitions, this team could be fighting for 8th but with a young roster destined to improve every year, and with a few extra picks, sort of like BOS right now.
    Keep forgetting that the East is so weak that in order to get to the top 5 we will need to be historically bad...BOS route may be the way to go for 2016, but will take a certain amount of luck to get all the pieces together in such a short time.

    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    I vote full on tank only because it would take getting a generational talent or perennial all-nba talent plus a brad Stevens type coach to bounce back so quick. So if you're going to go that route, sign up for the long haul to avoid the BC mistakes.

    I'd trade everyone except JV and Bruno. Bruno is untouchable period. JV is tradable if you're getting a legit C in return.

    Hire a coach system based with an emphasis On player development and experience working with young players either in NCAA or dleague.

    If I am Masai I am looking to maximize every single player on this team through trade and every free agent through sign and trade. I don't bring any free agents back unless it is on minimum contract.

    Any of one bill Simmons trade ideas were gold minus Wiggins trolling and George hill/11.


    Spurs destroying clippers.....love it.
    We're on the same wavelength.

    We are going to need serious talent to win in the East in the future. East wont be this weak forever
    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    What do you know, we tried to tank and it worked!

  13. #10
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Complete tear down, Masai!

    Do what you originally intended except now with guys who have trade value.

    We aren't cheering for championships with this team any time soon so what is the point?!?!?

    Build like Cleveland with an eye to poaching a hometown kid in 4 years!
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  14. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star hotfuzz's Avatar
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    I'm in for going all sixers and going a full on tank. There's no point of doing a half hearted tank, we'll just end up being mediocre.
    This means everyone is open to be traded, including JV. (who isn't as impressive as you think he is)
    "Duh! Winning"
    - Charlie Sheen

  15. #12
    Raptors Republic All-Star Scraptor's Avatar
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    Good post OP.

    I would say tanking is an option for sure, but that Masai has become ensnared in the same trap that ensnared BC: we've been just successful enough to discourage large-scale changes.

    The first sign was when he chose to keep Lowry after trading Gay, and we won a few games.
    The second sign was that he chose to keep an obviously-terrible coach after we had a winning season.
    The third sign was that even after we were mired in horrible basketball, he said he believed we were the team from earlier in the season.

    “I think the real team is the team you saw at the beginning of the season,” Ujiri told Bob McCown and Stephen Brunt on Sportsnet 590 the FAN’s Prime Time Sports.
    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...-early-season/

    We're a victim of inertia. Masai has said over and over that he believes in continuity and chemistry, and does not believe in tanking.

    “I think winning is what you want to build around …(not tanking). I’m not sure the karma is great when you do stuff like that.”
    So even if people are voting for tanking, I'd say the odds of us doing a scorched-earth rebuild are less than 10%, and maybe even less than 5%, given that the All-Star game is coming up.

    I argued for a full-scale rebuild around Jonas two years ago, and it would be a bitter pill to start over again now, having wasted two key years of development and pick accumulation, but this roster is really flawed and there may be no other way to effect the kind of changes that need to be made.

    That said, if Masai has an ace up his sleeve we'll have to trust him to play it this summer. We really don't have much other choice.

  16. #13
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    I'm in for going all sixers and going a full on tank. There's no point of doing a half hearted tank, we'll just end up being mediocre.
    This means everyone is open to be traded, including JV. (who isn't as impressive as you think he is)
    Biggest issue with trading JV is his age.

    22.

    Give him a coach who isn't constantly asking him to guard 2 guys or defend a 3pt shot and who knows?

    C is the hardest position to fill in the game.

    But you are definitely right he is NOT untouchable.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  17. #14
    Raptors Republic All-Star hotfuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Good post OP.

    I would say tanking is an option for sure, but that Masai has become ensnared in the same trap that ensnared BC: we've been just successful enough to discourage large-scale changes.

    The first sign was when he chose to keep Lowry after trading Gay, and we won a few games.
    The second sign was that he chose to keep an obviously-terrible coach after we had a winning season.
    The third sign was that even after we were mired in horrible basketball, he said he believed we were the team from earlier in the season.


    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...-early-season/

    We're a victim of inertia. Masai has said over and over that he believes in continuity and chemistry, and does not believe in tanking.



    So even if people are voting for tanking, I'd say the odds of us doing a scorched-earth rebuild are less than 10%, and maybe even less than 5%, given that the All-Star game is coming up.

    I argued for a full-scale rebuild around Jonas two years ago, and it would be a bitter pill to start over again now, having wasted two key years of development and pick accumulation, but this roster is really flawed and there may be no other way to effect the kind of changes that need to be made.

    That said, if Masai has an ace up his sleeve we'll have to trust him to play it this summer. We really don't have much other choice.
    Actions speak louder than words. The fact that masai didn't make any shortsighted moves at the deadline leads me to believe that he isn't sold on this core.
    "Duh! Winning"
    - Charlie Sheen

  18. #15
    Raptors Republic All-Star MixxAOR's Avatar
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    music to my ears

  19. #16
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    One solid reason to promote a complete tear down/tank would be the delay in need for a dleague team.

    Optimism and silver lining right there.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  20. #17
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    Raptors are still a young team. There is no point in a tear down.

  21. #18
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    They should have tanked the year JV was playing in Europe... accelerated failure ever since, with several wasted years.

    Significantly retool at the very least, starting with the head coach and the alleged 'leader' Lowry.

  22. #19
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Nope. Not an option.
    2015 Draft Board:

    1. Devin Booker
    2. Sam Dekker
    3. Montrezl Harrell

  23. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star MixxAOR's Avatar
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    Quote raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Raptors are still a young team. There is no point in a tear down.
    They are young but not talented

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